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Culture and god

U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Talking back and forth about god and evidence, I have a question for believers to whom this is appropriate.

Is there a rebuttal argument that god only exists as a product of one's culture?

I know there are rebuttals from scripture (so god says let it be so), history (we found jesus tomb therefore he walked on water), or experience (you don't know until you experienced X), but ...

If I said god was created by culture and does not exist on its own accord, what rebuttal can you give for that that isn't cultural related (that doesn't prove my point)?

I'm just curious.. was thinking of this earlier with all the Spaghetti monsters and such but I rarely hear anyone say god doesn't exist because its a product of one's culture.

What say you?
 
passerby

passerby

Member
We are all products of our cultures, and so if we are raised in a religiously focussed culture that will be what we know and choose to reject or not, if indeed we are allowed by that culture to do so.
History is full of examples of cultural change, so cultures themselves are not static and are subject to outside influences.
If you look for common grounds between cultures you may find similar elements but different practices, say in Eastern v western civilisations- but there is also a more universal common ground that would tie us together regardless of culture and I believe religion can be a unifying force as well as dividing one. We seem to need to believe in something.
I'm not quite sure I understand your question but could give Scientology as an answer, which is not a religion but shares some elements of others, and is very much a product of an American sub-culture which seems to want religion without a God. Here in the UK a few years ago people formed atheist churches where they met and sang songs etc.
However, if God exists it would probably make no difference except if God wanted to interact and be involved in creation on a human level, which is where Jesus steps in. Not sure I answered your question because I don't believe there is a clear answer but we can still reflect on it.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
passerby said:
We are all products of our cultures, and so if we are raised in a religiously focussed culture that will be what we know and choose to reject or not, if indeed we are allowed by that culture to do so.
History is full of examples of cultural change, so cultures themselves are not static and are subject to outside influences.
If you look for common grounds between cultures you may find similar elements but different practices, say in Eastern v western civilisations- but there is also a more universal common ground that would tie us together regardless of culture and I believe religion can be a unifying force as well as dividing one. We seem to need to believe in something.
I'm not quite sure I understand your question but could give Scientology as an answer, which is not a religion but shares some elements of others, and is very much a product of an American sub-culture which seems to want religion without a God. Here in the UK a few years ago people formed atheist churches where they met and sang songs etc.
However, if God exists it would probably make no difference except if God wanted to interact and be involved in creation on a human level, which is where Jesus steps in. Not sure I answered your question because I don't believe there is a clear answer but we can still reflect on it.
Click to expand...

Oh. Was thinking that the arguments against gods existence tends to be reasons that belttle the nature of it: god doesn't exist because faries don't." Though one doesn't prove the other. Empty support.

A better argument against gods existance is to explain how gods are the product of culture not because it's just that it's imaginary.

Theists rebute claims that God is imaginary but I haven't seen the same for god created by culture.

If god exist seperate from humans, can one explain how culture isn't involved in it own creation?
 
The Hammer

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Oh. Was thinking that the arguments against gods existence tends to be reasons that belttle the nature of it: god doesn't exist because faries don't." Though one doesn't prove the other. Empty support.

A better argument against gods existance is to explain how gods are the product of culture not because it's just that it's imaginary.

Theists rebute claims that God is imaginary but I haven't seen the same for god created by culture.

If god exist seperate from humans, can one explain how culture isn't involved in it own creation?
Click to expand...

Culture is the lens in which we view the Gods. I don't think they are a product of one another.
It's the color with which we see the world.
 
We Never Know

We Never Know

No Slack
Unveiled Artist said:
Talking back and forth about god and evidence, I have a question for believers to whom this is appropriate.

Is there a rebuttal argument that god only exists as a product of one's culture?

I know there are rebuttals from scripture (so god says let it be so), history (we found jesus tomb therefore he walked on water), or experience (you don't know until you experienced X), but ...

If I said god was created by culture and does not exist on its own accord, what rebuttal can you give for that that isn't cultural related (that doesn't prove my point)?

I'm just curious.. was thinking of this earlier with all the Spaghetti monsters and such but I rarely hear anyone say god doesn't exist because its a product of one's culture.

What say you?
Click to expand...

I think every culture, even uncivilized tribe's believe in a higher being/spirit.
The question is why? Its not like they have read the bible or been preached to by religious groups about heaven or hell or jesus, etc. .
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Is there a rebuttal argument that god only exists as a product of one's culture?
Click to expand...

I focus on the word 'only'. Clearly our conception varies by culture and time. And even more, people have very individual ideas about God.

It's to be expected when human minds try to grasp what is beyond imagination and conception.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
We Never Know said:
I think every culture, even uncivilized tribe's believe in a higher being/spirit.
The question is why? Its not like they have read the bible or been preached to by religious groups about heaven or hell or jesus, etc. .
Click to expand...

But did they create the higher power via their culture? (Gradual progress)
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
sun rise said:
I focus on the word 'only'. Clearly our conception varies by culture and time. And even more, people have very individual ideas about God.

It's to be expected when human minds try to grasp what is beyond imagination and conception.
Click to expand...

True. I was wondering, though, because of this understanding of ideas, if god exists outside "man" than what are arguments that prove otherwise given cultural influences on the creation of god (if that be the case?)?
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Talking back and forth about god and evidence, I have a question for believers to whom this is appropriate.

Is there a rebuttal argument that god only exists as a product of one's culture?

I know there are rebuttals from scripture (so god says let it be so), history (we found jesus tomb therefore he walked on water), or experience (you don't know until you experienced X), but ...

If I said god was created by culture and does not exist on its own accord, what rebuttal can you give for that that isn't cultural related (that doesn't prove my point)?

I'm just curious.. was thinking of this earlier with all the Spaghetti monsters and such but I rarely hear anyone say god doesn't exist because its a product of one's culture.

What say you?
Click to expand...
Non-believers have no need to rebut god. Non-belief isn't a claim. There's no burden to prove.... nothing.

People don't feel any need to rebut unicorns, leprechauns, or Cthulu. They simply don't believe, and they don't believe because there is no evidence for these creatures.

Atheists don't disbelieve because of any arguments against God, or anger at God's purported deeds, or behavior, or for doctrinal disputes. Atheists disbelieve simply because there has yet to emerge any real evidence for a god.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Valjean said:
People don't feel any need to rebut unicorns, leprechauns, or Cthulu. They simply don't believe, and they don't believe because there is no evidence for these creatures.
Click to expand...

This is kinda my point. I asked believers is there other rebuttals for their arguments besides that of atheists' comparing god's existences to unicorns, leprechauns, and Cthulu.

I only see believers rebutting atheist claims as if being god being just as ridiculous as unicorns somehow proves one doesn't exist or so have you. I hear rebuttals for that from believers, but no atheist so far I know presented a reason for god's non-existence by appealing to cultural influences. That makes a whole lot more sense than ridiculing their god by comparing it to unicorns. The comparison is ridiculous.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
We Never Know said:
I have no clue. Dreams, things that they couldn't explain, etc many have lead to believing gods or something higher and been passed down through generations.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard a believer say that was false or said anything against that.

I honestly think the culture argument is a better talk with discussing god's existence than using science or so have you. Though, it would be hard. The ones I'd probably focus this on is JW, and christians who don't believe in traditions. I think most religions understand the role culture plays in defining their gods.
 
The Hammer

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Do you think culture is also what created gods of various religions as well as the lens we view it? (Interrelated)
Click to expand...

Nope. I think there is a very human desire to seek something larger/greater than oneself. In this we have found God or Gods. And colored them with Cultural trappings.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The Hammer said:
Nope. I think there is a very human desire to seek something larger/greater than oneself. In this we have found God or Gods. And colored them with Cultural trappings.
Click to expand...

I would probably say that "something bigger" is a human thing and don't exist on its own accord. So, if something greater is god, why would/how would it exist and be created anywhere but from the person(s) who believe it?
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Unveiled Artist said:
Oh. Was thinking that the arguments against gods existence tends to be reasons that belttle the nature of it: god doesn't exist because faries don't." Though one doesn't prove the other. Empty support.

A better argument against gods existance is to explain how gods are the product of culture not because it's just that it's imaginary.

Theists rebute claims that God is imaginary but I haven't seen the same for god created by culture.

If god exist seperate from humans, can one explain how culture isn't involved in it own creation?
Click to expand...
H. Richard Niebuhr formulated 3 different Christs: Christ against culture, Christ within culture, and Christ of culture. Culture is always a huge factor — not in the veracity of God’s existence, but in how we conceptualize God.
 
passerby

passerby

Member
sojourner said:
Sure. As in when Jesus says things like he is not of this world, the last will be first, happy are they who mourn. Jesus can turn cultural norms upside down.
Click to expand...
The Gospels are full of Jesus going against the cultural norms of the society he lived in- frequenting with tax collectors, touching lepers, speaking to Gentile women and Roman officials etc. Not sure that means he was/is against culture as such, He was very much an upholder of that culture too. All cultures are subject to appropriation by powerful people (lots of evidence for this going on today) for their own ends. Maybe it was just that basic hypocrisy and dishonesty Jesus could see through, and therefore called it out for what it was.
 
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