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Why is salvation the ultimate goal of so many Christians?

Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
This is a same faith debate -- Christians only:

Why is it always about “Salvation”? The idea that from the moment we are born, we are condemned by default to everlasting torment is so abhorrent to me. I find it so hard to accept the notion that to so many Christians, “salvation” means having escaped the otherwise inevitable punishment that comes with “unbelief.” And that reprieve is all that matters. You believe in Jesus Christ and nothing more matters. When you die, you will be received into God’s love and, and… well, I don’t know. What happens next? You sit around throughout eternity, praising Him for His grace in not torturing you?

Why do people see “belief” as some kind of an insurance policy which assures them that they will be plucked from eternal torture in some fiery pit. If we believe because we’re afraid of what our destiny will be otherwise, how is that a good thing at all? It’s nothing more than checking off a box!

Life isn’t supposed to be about finding the secret to avoiding hellfire. It’s not about saying, “God, I’m a sinner. I believe in Jesus. Please save me!” Life is about learning to love as God loves. It’s about wanting to become someone that God is proud to call His son or daughter. It’s not about making it to our heavenly home. It’s about being the kind of person who will feel “at home” in God’s presence. Becoming such a person isn’t automatic, and it doesn’t happen at the moment you declare yourself to have been “saved.” It’s a lifelong process, facilitated by the grace of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ. It's recognizing that He has promised you so much more than the avoidance of eternal punishment.
 
Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
Life isn’t supposed to be about finding the secret to avoiding hellfire. It’s not about saying, “God, I’m a sinner. I believe in Jesus. Please save me!” Life is about learning to love as God loves. It’s about wanting to become someone that God is proud to call His son or daughter. It’s not about making it to our heavenly home. It’s about being the kind of person who will feel “at home” in God’s presence. Becoming such a person isn’t automatic, and it doesn’t happen at the moment you declare yourself to have been “saved.” It’s a lifelong process, facilitated by the grace of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ. It's recognizing that He has promised you so much more than the avoidance of eternal punishment.
Click to expand...
I have always been struck by that same thing, that everything is about getting to the finish line in the afterlife, so you can then experience Life. I've come to see this as a type of spiritual avoidance. To focus outside this world to another time where you will find God in heaven, is to fail to see God now. But, seeing God now can mean facing your own demons, considering we all stand naked before the Infinite. Always looking to the future, avoids truly looking at that today,
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
Katzpur said:
This is a same faith debate -- Christians only:

Why is it always about “Salvation”? The idea that from the moment we are born, we are condemned by default to everlasting torment is so abhorrent to me. I find it so hard to accept the notion that to so many Christians, “salvation” means having escaped the otherwise inevitable punishment that comes with “unbelief.” And that reprieve is all that matters. You believe in Jesus Christ and nothing more matters. When you die, you will be received into God’s love and, and… well, I don’t know. What happens next? You sit around throughout eternity, praising Him for His grace in not torturing you?

Why do people see “belief” as some kind of an insurance policy which assures them that they will be plucked from eternal torture in some fiery pit. If we believe because we’re afraid of what our destiny will be otherwise, how is that a good thing at all? It’s nothing more than checking off a box!

Life isn’t supposed to be about finding the secret to avoiding hellfire. It’s not about saying, “God, I’m a sinner. I believe in Jesus. Please save me!” Life is about learning to love as God loves. It’s about wanting to become someone that God is proud to call His son or daughter. It’s not about making it to our heavenly home. It’s about being the kind of person who will feel “at home” in God’s presence. Becoming such a person isn’t automatic, and it doesn’t happen at the moment you declare yourself to have been “saved.” It’s a lifelong process, facilitated by the grace of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ. It's recognizing that He has promised you so much more than the avoidance of eternal punishment.
Click to expand...
There is so much you’ve expressed here of your perspective that seems so off base from the biblical view, it makes sad and tired to even begin to address. Certainly it is not how I see things revealed in the scriptures about salvation and I doubt most Christians, either.

I’ll just say that I consider this world, as the scriptures clearly indicate, to be temporary. God is concerned with our eternal destiny, so I am too because that is what this life is actually all about, that is what matters most... eternity is forever.
That doesn’t alter the fact that how one lives their live here is also very important ; growing, changing and allowing the Holy Spirit to bring about sanctification in one’s life and as the Bible says, “ being confirmed to the image of Christ “.

I don’t see hell, outer darkness or eternal damnation as you do. It’s not something God desires, certainly not torture He preforms that one escapes by “believing in Jesus“ as you seem to trivialize. According to the scriptures, God is the Creator and only Source of life and we are created beings. As created beings we are are not autonomous, but totally dependent on our Creator for every breath.
I think the message of the scriptures simply is that apart from God, living in sin, rejecting His goodness and life giving power results in suffering. Those who harden their hearts against God’s love, goodness, grace, forgiveness and eternal life in Christ, choosing instead to cling to their own destructive ways of sin will simply receive the desires of their heart...for eternity. Sadly, that will be self -torment.
 
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Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
Why do people see “belief” as some kind of an insurance policy which assures them that they will be plucked from eternal torture in some fiery pit. If we believe because we’re afraid of what our destiny will be otherwise, how is that a good thing at all? It’s nothing more than checking off a box!
Click to expand...
That is what a lot of preachers preach, including the church I grew up in as well as the churches of all of my family. That was not, however, the end. People were encouraged to attend church, to read scripture, to practice scripture, to forgive others and be forgiven. There was growth involved, and getting saved was not the end. They did make an effort to learn to love etc like what you described as important.

In order to join most churches you must sit through some classes and make some commitments, so there is something to it even after the saving confession of faith.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
InChrist said:
There is so much you’ve expressed here of your perspective that seems so off base from the biblical view, it makes sad and tired to even begin to address. Certainly it is not how I see things revealed in the scriptures about salvation and I doubt most Christians, either.
Click to expand...
Good grief. Are you kidding me? What was it I said that struck you as not being biblically based?

And please, ease up on the melodrama just a tad. If it tires you and makes you sad to explain your position to some one so spiritually inferior as I apparently am, I would only ask that you not wear yourself out on my behalf or waste your time feeling pity for me. I believe only what God has taught me, and what I have posted is what He has taught me.
 
Last edited:
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
This is a same faith debate -- Christians only:

Why is it always about “Salvation”? The idea that from the moment we are born, we are condemned by default to everlasting torment is so abhorrent to me. I find it so hard to accept the notion that to so many Christians, “salvation” means having escaped the otherwise inevitable punishment that comes with “unbelief.” And that reprieve is all that matters. You believe in Jesus Christ and nothing more matters. When you die, you will be received into God’s love and, and… well, I don’t know. What happens next? You sit around throughout eternity, praising Him for His grace in not torturing you?

Why do people see “belief” as some kind of an insurance policy which assures them that they will be plucked from eternal torture in some fiery pit. If we believe because we’re afraid of what our destiny will be otherwise, how is that a good thing at all? It’s nothing more than checking off a box!

Life isn’t supposed to be about finding the secret to avoiding hellfire. It’s not about saying, “God, I’m a sinner. I believe in Jesus. Please save me!” Life is about learning to love as God loves. It’s about wanting to become someone that God is proud to call His son or daughter. It’s not about making it to our heavenly home. It’s about being the kind of person who will feel “at home” in God’s presence. Becoming such a person isn’t automatic, and it doesn’t happen at the moment you declare yourself to have been “saved.” It’s a lifelong process, facilitated by the grace of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ. It's recognizing that He has promised you so much more than the avoidance of eternal punishment.
Click to expand...

After coming to Jesus we should be seeking to be the sort of people God is proud to call His children, true.
Getting something from God would be usually why people come to God however. We call out to God for help. Even as Christians we do that.
We all die, we all have troubles in life. Salvation comes first surely and spreading the message for the salvation of others is a good thing. God works in us to change us after that to be like Jesus.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Katzpur said:
This is a same faith debate -- Christians only:

Why is it always about “Salvation”? The idea that from the moment we are born, we are condemned by default to everlasting torment is so abhorrent to me. I find it so hard to accept the notion that to so many Christians, “salvation” means having escaped the otherwise inevitable punishment that comes with “unbelief.” And that reprieve is all that matters. You believe in Jesus Christ and nothing more matters. When you die, you will be received into God’s love and, and… well, I don’t know. What happens next? You sit around throughout eternity, praising Him for His grace in not torturing you?

Why do people see “belief” as some kind of an insurance policy which assures them that they will be plucked from eternal torture in some fiery pit. If we believe because we’re afraid of what our destiny will be otherwise, how is that a good thing at all? It’s nothing more than checking off a box!

Life isn’t supposed to be about finding the secret to avoiding hellfire. It’s not about saying, “God, I’m a sinner. I believe in Jesus. Please save me!” Life is about learning to love as God loves. It’s about wanting to become someone that God is proud to call His son or daughter. It’s not about making it to our heavenly home. It’s about being the kind of person who will feel “at home” in God’s presence. Becoming such a person isn’t automatic, and it doesn’t happen at the moment you declare yourself to have been “saved.” It’s a lifelong process, facilitated by the grace of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ. It's recognizing that He has promised you so much more than the avoidance of eternal punishment.
Click to expand...
This ^^^
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
This is a same faith debate -- Christians only:

Why is it always about “Salvation”? The idea that from the moment we are born, we are condemned by default to everlasting torment is so abhorrent to me.
Click to expand...

That one I also cannot accept.
We all do sin however and some of us will probably end up not saved. Just who that will be and why they are so unworthy and at what point in life that happens is not ours to decide.
Then again the saints will have a hand in the judgement it seems, so you may get your say then if you are one of the saints.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Brian2 said:
That one I also cannot accept.
We all do sin however and some of us will probably end up not saved. Just who that will be and why they are so unworthy and at what point in life that happens is not ours to decide.
Then again the saints will have a hand in the judgement it seems, so you may get your say then if you are one of the saints.
Click to expand...
All I'm saying, Brian, is that salvation need not and should not be our ultimate goal. We have it in us to do so much more than that. You have the typical Christian mindset: Be born, get saved, die, go to heaven.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
All I'm saying, Brian, is that salvation need not and should not be our ultimate goal. We have it in us to do so much more than that. You have the typical Christian mindset: Be born, get saved, die, go to heaven.
Click to expand...

In Christ we can do so much more than that if we are disciples of Jesus and allow Him to lead us.
 
passerby

passerby

Member
The idea of salvation is central to Christian teaching. Without salvation we are just people floundering around wondering what we're here for. God has saved us from our fallen nature and wants us to be reconciled and with Him forever. If you can't accept that you can't really be a Christian.
How we get to be with God whilst living our lives here is a different matter. Do we earn it though our own endeavours (ie good works) or just by believing? This was the whole basis of Luther's argument that lead to Protestantism.
My own journey is taking me into the endless possibilities of love. I did nothing to earn it. Whether I can make myself worthy of achieving eternal life is not really up to me. God alone knows, and we are limited in what we can know.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
That's true, but I don't see most Christians as really focusing on that.
Click to expand...

It can be hard to tell.
However Christians are ordinary people who are being led on a journey closer to God in one way or another and are all being worked on by God to be changed in that direction whether we start off seriously wanting it or not.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
passerby said:
The idea of salvation is central to Christian teaching. Without salvation we are just people floundering around wondering what we're here for. God has saved us from our fallen nature and wants us to be reconciled and with Him forever. If you can't accept that you can't really be a Christian.
How we get to be with God whilst living our lives here is a different matter. Do we earn it though our own endeavours (ie good works) or just by believing? This was the whole basis of Luther's argument that lead to Protestantism.
My own journey is taking me into the endless possibilities of love. I did nothing to earn it. Whether I can make myself worthy of achieving eternal life is not really up to me. God alone knows, and we are limited in what we can know.
Click to expand...

There is certainly a fine line sometimes between working for our salvation and doing it to please God and be approved by Him.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
passerby said:
The idea of salvation is central to Christian teaching. Without salvation we are just people floundering around wondering what we're here for. God has saved us from our fallen nature and wants us to be reconciled and with Him forever. If you can't accept that you can't really be a Christian.
How we get to be with God whilst living our lives here is a different matter. Do we earn it though our own endeavours (ie good works) or just by believing? This was the whole basis of Luther's argument that lead to Protestantism.
My own journey is taking me into the endless possibilities of love. I did nothing to earn it. Whether I can make myself worthy of achieving eternal life is not really up to me. God alone knows, and we are limited in what we can know.
Click to expand...
The idea of salvation may be central, but I don’t believe it’s in the sort of salvation popularly taught. Jesus first went around teaching, “God’s imperial rule has come near.” Jesus was far, far more interested in building a community of right relationship in the here-and-now. Most of his teachings are about feeding, loving, forgiving, building equity in our lives. And I believe that’s where our spiritual energies should be concentrated.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
passerby said:
Indeed, a topic much debated by theologians for centuries.
Click to expand...
No, not really. If you will re-read my OP, you will see that it has virtually nothing to do with the age-old question of whether we're saved by grace or works or a combination of the two. If I were to rephrase my initial question, without all of the additional commentary I thought would make my question more clear, I would say simply, "Okay, you're 'saved.' Now what? Is there anything more that that?"
 
passerby

passerby

Member
Katzpur said:
No, not really. If you will re-read my OP, you will see that it has virtually nothing to do with the age-old question of whether we're saved by grace or works or a combination of the two. If I were to rephrase my initial question, without all of the additional commentary I thought would make my question more clear, I would say simply, "Okay, you're 'saved.' Now what? Is there anything more that that?"
Click to expand...

There can be no certainty for anyone of being saved. Christ redeemed humanity from original sin. However, eternal life with Him is dependent on belief. If you don't believe, no matter how good a life you have lived, you will not gain Heaven. However, God is also merciful and can save anyone. We cannot judge.
We were redeemed by love, and believe in love. Maybe in the end it is not just our love of God, but the love of our fellow man, creation etc, that will redeem us. This is Christian teaching.
 
J

John1.12

Free gift
sojourner said:
The idea of salvation may be central, but I don’t believe it’s in the sort of salvation popularly taught. Jesus first went around teaching, “God’s imperial rule has come near.” Jesus was far, far more interested in building a community of right relationship in the here-and-now. Most of his teachings are about feeding, loving, forgiving, building equity in our lives. And I believe that’s where our spiritual energies should be concentrated.
Click to expand...
What would be the point of that if you end up in hell . Thats the equivalent of having a nice steak on death row ,waiting to be executed.
 
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