When a person "discover wisdom" that is not in the holy books

Talk of forgiveness! Not only the God of Israel is vengeful and cruel, does not even spare children.

".. for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation .."
"And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying: 'Harass the Midianites, and smite them; .."
"However, you must not let any living thing survive among the cities of these people the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. You must completely destroy them – the Hethite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite, and Jebusite .."
"Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys."

More at: https://www.google.com/search?q=bib...hUKEwj_7MWe74bwAhUT4jgGHSAHDhIQ4dUDCAY&uact=5

MonkeyFire said:

Buddhahood deeply requires personal insight.

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I believe all religions or should i say spiritual paths have a form of buddhahood of some sort, just with other words used to descrbe it, but especially on the main path it has become forgotten knowledge

Aupmanyav said:

Wish you had some evidence of his existence.
Your God does not forgive, not only that he is vengeful.
".. for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation .."

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I have the personal "evidence" i need to believe. but i can not show those to others because they are experiences i have had. not physical things or marks that can be shown to others.

Conscious thoughts said:

I have a question about what is your view on gaining new understanding, wisdom/knowledge within a religion but there is no direct connection to it in the scripture.

Would it be better if this person did not see it as a part of the teaching?
Or do you see it more as a part of the journey, and that the person did gain deeper wisdom from the teaching?

I guess the real question is: should a religious person just read the teaching, but not seek the deep wisdom within? or is it a sign of enlightenment to be able to draw new wisdom from the teaching?

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Interesting observation, but I would ask, What is an example of wisdom that can not be found in scripture? and

If it can not be found in Scripture, how do we decide if it is wise or not?

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Interesting observation, but I would ask, What is an example of wisdom that can not be found in scripture? and

If it can not be found in Scripture, how do we decide if it is wise or not?

Regards Tony

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In this case i speak of personal experiences that show that not only one religion has truth in it, because if we look at other paths, they speak of similar or actually same things. But the book does not say it like that. And the reason it is not said is to not confuse the followers. Only when a person comes to a certain wisdom level they can see realize this wisdom.

Or it can be about the unseen (other dimentions that opens up to a person who cultivate the teaching in a deeper way than just a belief. Abrahamic religions speak very little about it if at all.

I would think your self have wisdom that is not within Baha`i teaching?

Conscious thoughts said:

In this case i speak of personal experiences that show that not only one religion has truth in it, because if we look at other paths, they speak of similar or actually same things. But the book does not say it like that. And the reason it is not said is to not confuse the followers. Only when a person comes to a certain wisdom level they can see realize this wisdom.

Or it can be about the unseen (other dimentions that opens up to a person who cultivate the teaching in a deeper way than just a belief. Abrahamic religions speak very little about it if at all.

I would think your self have wisdom that is not within Baha`i teaching?

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I now consider all wisdom is of God. When you offered this, "In this case i speak of personal experiences that show that not only one religion has truth in it, because if we look at other paths, they speak of similar or actually same things," I see that wisdom is already available in the scriptures, what it required was us to be in-tune with that wisdom.

I agree many things in scriptures do not always say it in plain language, but that is also because we are yet to learn the language of the Spirit, not because it is not written in plain view.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

I now consider all wisdom is of God. When you offered this, "In this case i speak of personal experiences that show that not only one religion has truth in it, because if we look at other paths, they speak of similar or actually same things," I see that wisdom is already available in the scriptures, what it required was us to be in-tune with that wisdom.

I agree many things in scriptures do not always say it in plain language, but that is also because we are yet to learn the language of the Spirit, not because it is not written in plain view.

Regards Tony

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Fully agree, and i believe both Sufism and Baha`i has a form of "hidden teaching" that other religions have no longer. the hidden teaching is the one that happens from within by practicing the teachings and not only believe in a God, then say "dear God, now i believe in you so fix my problems" to me that does not work. We have to understand our own inner being to be able to fix our own problems, but the wisdom to do so, opens up through the teaching and daily practice.

Conscious thoughts said:

Fully agree, and i believe both Sufism and Baha`i has a form of "hidden teaching" that other religions have no longer. the hidden teaching is the one that happens from within by practicing the teachings and not only believe in a God, then say "dear God, now i believe in you so fix my problems" to me that does not work. We have to understand our own inner being to be able to fix our own problems, but the wisdom to do so, opens up through the teaching and daily practice.

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There is tradition that has been quoted by Baha'u'llah that tells of the hidden teachings.

"...Thus it is recorded: “Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá’im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth.” He also saith: “We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain.”

That to me says that the knowledge given does contain the wisdom, but we are yet to find the explanations.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

There is tradition that has been quoted by Baha'u'llah that tells of the hidden teachings.

"...Thus it is recorded: “Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá’im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth.” He also saith: “We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain.”

That to me says that the knowledge given to contain the wisdom, but we are yet to find the explanations.

Regards Tony

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The way i read this verse is that even the Prophet or teacher say it one way, there is actually 70 layers of wisdom to be found in this one teaching, and that is again similar in all spiritual teachings.
To me that Hidden teaching can only be understood if we understand our own being. So to know God we must first know our self fully.
We are the hidden teaching from within our own being.

When our religion (and it's trappings) becomes our gods, we have fallen into idolatry.

Conscious thoughts said:

I have a question about what is your view on gaining new understanding, wisdom/knowledge within a religion but there is no direct connection to it in the scripture.

Would it be better if this person did not see it as a part of the teaching?
Or do you see it more as a part of the journey, and that the person did gain deeper wisdom from the teaching?

I guess the real question is: should a religious person just read the teaching, but not seek the deep wisdom within? or is it a sign of enlightenment to be able to draw new wisdom from the teaching?

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It seems to me that in most religions the teaching consists of a great deal more than just scripture. There is often a whole structure of derived theology, interpretation and the further thinking and meditations of scholars and holy men and women.

It depends. I think there’s a difference though between “epiphanies” within one’s prayer or meditation time and genuine wisdom that can be found in Scripture.

Aupmanyav said:

Talk of forgiveness! Not only the God of Israel is vengeful and cruel, does not even spare children.

".. for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation .."
"And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying: 'Harass the Midianites, and smite them; .."
"However, you must not let any living thing survive among the cities of these people the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. You must completely destroy them – the Hethite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite, and Jebusite .."
"Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys."

More at: https://www.google.com/search?q=bible's+most+henious+crime&source=hp&ei=zql7YP_NN5PE4-EPoI64kAE&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYHu33l4jAnlMy1sfyq3U8hF425DDU6PM&oq=bible's+most+henious+crime&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyCAghEBYQHRAeMggIIRAWEB0QHjIICCEQFhAdEB4yCAghEBYQHRAeMggIIRAWEB0QHjIICCEQFhAdEB4yCAghEBYQHRAeMggIIRAWEB0QHjIICCEQFhAdEB4yCAghEBYQHRAeOggIABDqAhCPAToICAAQsQMQgwE6BQgAELEDOggILhCxAxCDAToCCAA6CwguELEDEMcBEKMCOggILhDHARCjAjoNCAAQsQMQgwEQRhCCAjoLCC4QsQMQxwEQrwE6BQguELEDOgUILhCTAjoCCC46CAguEMcBEK8BOgYIABAWEB46CQgAEMkDEBYQHjoFCCEQoAE6BwghEAoQoAFQ5RFY8VZgj1toAnAAeACAAZYBiAHpGZIBBDAuMjaYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEK&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj_7MWe74bwAhUT4jgGHSAHDhIQ4dUDCAY&uact=5

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Explanation of the violence in the Bible:
Does God Command Evil Acts in the Bible? - Ascension Press Media

And remember. Bible is not 100% God's word. There are human errors in the Bible. Several of the men who have written the Bible have from time to time been wrong about what God is like and what God wants.

Meandflower said:

And remember. Bible is not 100% God's word. There are human errors in the Bible. Several of the men who have written the Bible have from time to time been wrong about what God is like and what God wants.

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Is Bible even 1% the word of any God? No one has ever proved the existence of any God, what to talk of his prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis that he is supposed to have sent.

As a human not owning a personal spiritual experience.

Told books are written involving pre living humans.

With science advice medical. Once all humans owned as humans the same DNA.

I would consciously agree anyone human was an extended family member.

Without spiritual experience.

Common sense.

Humans teaching against human deceit reference human egotism.

The lived life human experience observes ego problem real.

Does not agree not admire Family harm anywhere on earth. And grieves In a spiritual wisdom of losses.

Says I would like to prove my own human advice.

Meditates. Works on anger issues. Conscious behaviours has experienced with deceased dying human family.

First parents spiritual for everyone told to love honour not self idolise.

So I don't idolise myself.

I however live love honour spiritual parent human advice.

Do not know my mother as a separated theme but learn from my father separated theme. Spirit lived first life heavenly recordings. As I am female.

And are taught self human spirituality by the love my father had for our mother and.babies human.

Yes I can learn without books.

But I then need to compare human reasoning to book write.

I am taught as a self. Best not to introduce a self following. Too many humans before us caused problems by that choice.

To reason as a new life versus history.

Conscious thoughts said:

I have a question about what is your view on gaining new understanding, wisdom/knowledge within a religion but there is no direct connection to it in the scripture.

Would it be better if this person did not see it as a part of the teaching?
Or do you see it more as a part of the journey, and that the person did gain deeper wisdom from the teaching?

I guess the real question is: should a religious person just read the teaching, but not seek the deep wisdom within? or is it a sign of enlightenment to be able to draw new wisdom from the teaching?

Click to expand...

I believe our minds should always be open to learning new things as long as they don’t interfere with our relationship with God. We know God’s will in each age through Prophets which appear with a Holy Book. But I am given to understand that all knowledge, even scientific emanates from the ‘creative Word of God’ in each age.

The internet, world communications, world solidarity etc has emanated from the Word of God for this age not by chance or accident.

Sufism teachings is both in the Quran and hadiths.

For example from the Quran:
- He loves them, and they love Him (5:54)
- Surely we belong to Allah and to Him shall we return (2:156)
- Wherever you turn there is the face of Allah (2:115)
- He has succeeded who purifies the soul, and he has failed who corrupts the soul (91:9-10)
- Verily, among his people was Abraham, when he came to his Lord with a pure heart (37:83-84)

Meandflower said:

Sufism teachings is both in the Quran and hadiths.

For example from the Quran:
- He loves them, and they love Him (5:54),
-Surely we belong to Allah and to Him shall we return (2:156),
- Wherever you turn there is the face of Allah (2:115),
- He has succeeded who purifies the soul, and he has failed who corrupts the soul Qur'an, 91:9-10
- Verily, among his people was Abraham, when he came to his Lord with a pure heart." (Qur'an, 37:83-84),

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Yes Both the Quran and Hadiths are a part of sufi teaching and it is the backbone of the rest of the teaching from past sufi masters.

Conscious thoughts said:

I have a question about what is your view on gaining new understanding, wisdom/knowledge within a religion but there is no direct connection to it in the scripture.

Would it be better if this person did not see it as a part of the teaching?
Or do you see it more as a part of the journey, and that the person did gain deeper wisdom from the teaching?

I guess the real question is: should a religious person just read the teaching, but not seek the deep wisdom within? or is it a sign of enlightenment to be able to draw new wisdom from the teaching?

Click to expand...

Revelations great and small happen all the time. Scripture books are comprised of collections of both.

firedragon said:

Please quote the scripture. Where does Muhammed speak of Magic and Jinns, and why do you believe he indeed did so?

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Jinn - Wikipedia
"Jinn are mentioned approximately 29 times in the Quran. In Islamic tradition, Muhammad was sent as a prophet to both human and jinn communities, and that prophets and messengers were sent to both communities. Traditionally Quran 72, named after them (Al-Jinn), is held to tell about the revelation to jinn and several stories mention one of Muhammad's followers accompanied him, witnessing the revelation to the jinn.

Witchcraft - Wikipedia
"Muslims do commonly believe in magic (sihr) and explicitly forbid its practice. Sihr translates from Arabic as black magic. The best known reference to magic in Islam is chapter 113 (Al-Falaq) of the Qur'an, which is known (?) as a prayer to God to ward off black magic.

Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn From the mischief of created things; From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads; From the mischief of those who practise secret arts; And from the mischief of the envious one as he practises envy. (Qur'an 113:1–5)"

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:635266/FULLTEXT02.pdf
"Regardless of his religious affiliation it is clear that he was hostile towards the Prophet, and Ibn Hishām in his biography of the Prophet recognised this and listed him among the enemies of the Prophet, only shortly referring to the bewitching itself: “Among the Jews of Banū Zurayq [there was] Labīd ibn Aʿṣam who bewitched the Prophet.” Apart from naming the caster of the spell, Ibn Hishām also mentions the effects of the spell by stating that the enchantment “kept [the Prophet] away from his wives.”