• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

a standing empty cross

Brian2

Veteran Member
Well @Brian2 it seems as if you've got it all worked out......apparently you are "the faithful and wise slave" and can "feed" yourself.....wonderful!....all the best with that. :D But you have to also feed the rest of Christ's entire family their "food at the proper time".....how's that working out?

There are plenty of people I have been fed by and I hope I have fed others also. We are here to teach and encourage one another as directed and gifted by the Lord. It is the Lord who is doing the feeding really and leading us to green pastures for food, as long as we are willing to eat.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The Watchtower wouldn’t put so much continual effort into denying that Jesus died on a cross if they did not despise the gospel message it represents; that by Christ alone and His finished work one’s sins are forgiven and the gift of eternal life may be received through faith.
I can’t think of anything in this fallen world that hasn’t been tainted by paganism or have some connection to pagan symbolism. The reality is that God is sovereign and He uses things in the world and He accomplishes His will through human activities in spite of human sinfulness.

I can't find anywhere at www.jw.org that Jehovah's Witnesses despise the gospel message.
Rather, I find the gospel message was the theme of Jesus' teachings - Luke 4:43.
Jesus stressed that gospel message at Matthew 24:13-14 and at Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Yes, sins forgiven - 1 John 1:7 - and eternal life through faith. Faith in God and Jesus' ransom - Matthew 20:28.
Yes, 'human activities accomplishes' God's Will being done despite human imperfection.
Because as Scripture lets us know if 'humans' won't tell the stones will call out - Luke 19:40
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I recommend every Christian here to stop discussing with Jehovah's Witnesses, let them be as they are......
Gamaliel (Acts of the Apostles 5:38-39) If this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will Not be able to overthrow them..... You may perhaps be found fighting actually against God.

Gamaliel was urging to be patient or tolerant in dealing with people who claim to follow Jesus because if it is a scheme from men it will be overthrown, but if from God you will Not be able to overthrow it or them.
Opposers will Not be able to overthrow God's work - Isaiah 54:17
- www.jw.org
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I can't find anywhere at www.jw.org that Jehovah's Witnesses despise the gospel message.
Rather, I find the gospel message was the theme of Jesus' teachings - Luke 4:43.
Jesus stressed that gospel message at Matthew 24:13-14 and at Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Yes, sins forgiven - 1 John 1:7 - and eternal life through faith. Faith in God and Jesus' ransom - Matthew 20:28.
Yes, 'human activities accomplishes' God's Will being done despite human imperfection.
Because as Scripture lets us know if 'humans' won't tell the stones will call out - Luke 19:40
Except, according to the Watchtower Jesus Christ and the Gospel message is not enough. The Watchtower adds their own requirements to Jesus and the Gospel ; that one must become a member, Jehovah’s Witness and follow Watchtower teachings and requirements.
 
Last edited:

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Except, according to the Watchtower the Jesus Christ and the Gospel message is not enough. The Watchtower adds their own requirements to Jesus and the Gospel ; that one must become a member, Jehovah’s Witness and follow Watchtower teachings and requirements.
I find that Jesus said he is ' the way, the truth and the life ' .
Why else would a person belong to a religion unless they believed it was the right one - www.jw.org
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Jesus is a Person, the only Savior, not a religion.

Religion never saved anyone.....it is the one practicing the religion that has the choices. It is our choices that determine our actions and the way we worship. Jesus made it clear that just claiming him as our "Lord" was not enough....we had to be "doing the will" of his Father. He indicates that many believe that they are Christians in good standing, only to be told that they failed in the most important areas.....the "doing" part. Those whom Christ rejects at the judgment are those whom Jesus said are practicing "lawlessness"...so if they assume that they are good Christians, even doing "powerful works" in Jesus' name...how did they go wrong? (Matthew 7:21-23)

You know, I have never once had anyone reply to to the implications of that scripture....

Except, according to the Watchtower Jesus Christ and the Gospel message is not enough. The Watchtower adds their own requirements to Jesus and the Gospel ; that one must become a member, Jehovah’s Witness and follow Watchtower teachings and requirements.

Well, the last time I looked, to "become" a Christian involved being taught by the scriptures that God inspired its writers to record for our instruction, and then to accept Jesus as the Savior sent by God to redeem them and provide the means to forgive them of their sins. And then they were required to get baptized in symbol of their 'dying' to their former life course, and being 'raised' up to do the will of God, putting their own will in second place. That is what full immersion baptism means.....its why Jesus was baptized....to signal the start of his mission with a sign that he was dying to his former will and dedicated to carrying out the will of his Father from that day on.

Now please be specific and tell us in what way we JW's add our own requirements and teachings? You made the assertion, now please back it up and lets see who has made up what? I request the right of reply....
 
Last edited:

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus is a Person, the only Savior, not a religion.
I don't think anyone thinks Jesus is a religion but that Jesus taught that Scripture is ' religious truth '- John 17:17
That is why Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " It is written...." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures with Jesus explaining or expounding them for us.

Jesus' half-brother James wrote what is acceptable religion or acceptable worship as found at James 1:27.

Yes, as Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5) Jesus is the only Savior according to God in His Word.
Only one name in which one can be 'saved' (delivered / rescued) - Acts of the Apostles 4:12
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Thank you...I will. :)



You recommend? And who are you? Someone with some kind of credibility here on RF?

Can you not provide any evidence for your assertions concerning the cross and its disgusting origins? It was a religious symbol long before Jesus even gave his life.....how do you think God feels about that?

If you had a child and someone shot and killed them, would you wear a replica of a gun around your neck and display it on your house? :shrug:
Yup.
Cross - Wikipedia.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Now please be specific and tell us in what way we JW's add our own requirements and teachings? You made the assertion, now please back it up and lets see who has made up what? I request the right of reply....

Jehovah's Witnesses congregational discipline - Wikipedia.

The GB seems to tell JWs what to believe and what to think and how to feel about certain things. It is sad to see children of God treated this way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but of course the GB tells you that you aren't children of God (as per Romans 8) and that most of the NT was not written for you etc etc.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The GB seems to tell JWs what to believe and what to think and how to feel about certain things.
And that was exactly what the situation was back in the first century. There was a Governing Body back then too...and Elders appointed in every congregation to take the lead..

Discipline was administered to those whom the Elders deemed to warrant it. It was they who were responsible for seeing to it that rebellious ones did not come in and undermine the faith of others.

Hebrews 13:17...
Obey your leaders and submit to them —for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account—so that they may do this with joy, not groaning; for this would be unhelpful for you.” (NASB)
We are to submit to them in order for the congregation to function in a peaceful and unified manner.

What is the Biblical precedent for disfellowshipping?

1 Corinthians 5:9-13...
“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people; I did not at all mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the greedy and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to leave the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or a greedy person, or an idolater, or is verbally abusive, or habitually drunk, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a person. For what business of mine is it to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the evil person from among yourselves. (“NASB)

Was it men who told us not to associate with such ones? See for yourself....God was to judge those “outside” the church, but the elders were to judge those “inside” in order to keep unrepentant sinners from corrupting others. If one was found to be guilty of serious sin, but not repentant about it after counselling, they were to be “removed”. Excommunication means what it says. No communication....they are removed from the congregation and we are to stop associating with them. How is that confusing?

It is sad to see children of God treated this way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but of course the GB tells you that you aren't children of God (as per Romans 8) and that most of the NT was not written for you etc etc.
Sad is it? What is sadder is allowing unrepentant sinners to destroy the peace of the entire congregation.....discipline was administered for a reason....not just to punish, but to admonish...to make a person feel the sting of God’s displeasure....with what goal?

Hebrews12:5-8....
“and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “ My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are punished by Him; For whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He punishes every son whom He accepts .” It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.“ (NASB)

Did our parents discipline us because they hated us? Or because they wanted to teach us something?
Discipline is an act of love because it is meant to facilitate repentance, without which there can be no forgiveness. If punishment could make a person “faint” then the level of punishment must have been harsh.....just because a person interprets the discipline as “harsh” doesn’t mean that it is unjustified. The Elders always hear both sides of any story and are aware of their heavy responsibility before God to judge impartially.....God judges them by how they judge others.

As usual, Brian2, you are speaking in total ignorance.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
And that was exactly what the situation was back in the first century. There was a Governing Body back then too...and Elders appointed in every congregation to take the lead..

Discipline was administered to those whom the Elders deemed to warrant it. It was they who were responsible for seeing to it that rebellious ones did not come in and undermine the faith of others.

Hebrews 13:17...
Obey your leaders and submit to them —for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account—so that they may do this with joy, not groaning; for this would be unhelpful for you.” (NASB)
We are to submit to them in order for the congregation to function in a peaceful and unified manner.

That is not a bad thing, however enforcing man made rules as if they were commands from God is not a good thing.
Unity of belief is a good thing but should not be achieved by not tolerating dissension from the beliefs that the GB tell us to believe, as if they were the apostles.

What is the Biblical precedent for disfellowshipping?

1 Corinthians 5:9-13...
“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people; I did not at all mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the greedy and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to leave the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or a greedy person, or an idolater, or is verbally abusive, or habitually drunk, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a person. For what business of mine is it to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the evil person from among yourselves. (“NASB)

Was it men who told us not to associate with such ones? See for yourself....God was to judge those “outside” the church, but the elders were to judge those “inside” in order to keep unrepentant sinners from corrupting others. If one was found to be guilty of serious sin, but not repentant about it after counselling, they were to be “removed”. Excommunication means what it says. No communication....they are removed from the congregation and we are to stop associating with them. How is that confusing?

Excommunication does not mean not communicating with them. That is a distortion of the Bible.

Sad is it? What is sadder is allowing unrepentant sinners to destroy the peace of the entire congregation.....discipline was administered for a reason....not just to punish, but to admonish...to make a person feel the sting of God’s displeasure....with what goal?

Hebrews12:5-8....
“and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “ My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are punished by Him; For whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He punishes every son whom He accepts .” It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.“ (NASB)

Did our parents discipline us because they hated us? Or because they wanted to teach us something?
Discipline is an act of love because it is meant to facilitate repentance, without which there can be no forgiveness. If punishment could make a person “faint” then the level of punishment must have been harsh.....just because a person interprets the discipline as “harsh” doesn’t mean that it is unjustified. The Elders always hear both sides of any story and are aware of their heavy responsibility before God to judge impartially.....God judges them by how they judge others.

As usual, Brian2, you are speaking in total ignorance.

I try not to judge people who are trying to do what God wants them to do. It is the GB who put men's commands on people and want them enforced as if they are God's commands. Did you not read the list of things that could be considered serious sins,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,some no doubt are God's commands and some are not.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
I'm saying that they are man made rules.
You can see some of them in the list in this site. You probably know them already and maybe think they are God's rules because the Gov Bod has the authority to make up rules. This of course is what the Pharisees did.
Jehovah's Witnesses congregational discipline - Wikipedia.
which of the so-called rules do you disagree with? evidently ,as it would seem, you are braking some of the rules and that bothers you that there would be a rule against it
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
which of the so-called rules do you disagree with? evidently ,as it would seem, you are braking some of the rules and that bothers you that there would be a rule against it

If the rules against what I am breaking are man made then there is no reason for it to bother me even if it bothers you because you believe the Gov Bod has authority from God to make up rules for Christians it seems.
Which of the rules below, from the site, are not man made rules? Or iows, which of the rules do we find in the Bible?


 

nPeace

Veteran Member
If the rules against what I am breaking are man made then there is no reason for it to bother me even if it bothers you because you believe the Gov Bod has authority from God to make up rules for Christians it seems.
Which of the rules below, from the site, are not man made rules? Or iows, which of the rules do we find in the Bible?


We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong. - Paul (Hebrews 5:11-14)
 
Top