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Covid vaccine. Who took it, who didn't?

have you taken the covid vaccine and trust in it

  • yes, I trust it

    Votes: 26 68.4%
  • no, I don't trust it

    Votes: 9 23.7%
  • undecided

    Votes: 3 7.9%

  • Total voters
    38

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The fact that these vaccines were done so quickly is perhaps a bit worrying but I am in no position to question such, so would trust those who are.

mRNA vaccines, not the only ones out there, have been under development and have been in trials for other diseases for quite some time.

The technology for other corona virus vaccines such SARS and MERS is well known.

So the available tech was applied to COVID-19 with one new thing - tremendous international cooperation which speeded up the process.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
In my opinion whether a person takes the vaccine or not doesn't make them good or bad. They are just expressing their personal choice which should be respected.

Typoid Mary was expressing a personal choice which led to many deaths. Not all personal choices should be respected.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
A coda to a flurry of posts.

Right now there are many many who want the shot so those that are reluctant are not a stumbling block to full reopening.

Once everyone who wants the shot gets it, we'll see where we are.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
One has to decide which is the greater risk, COVID or the coronavirus vaccine. It is an incomplete risk management analysis to consider only one. Sometimes, the risk of inaction is greater than that of acting. Long term side effects of vaccines occur. So does death from COVID-19. What are the relative risks of each?

Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know.
Feb 04, 2021
Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know. | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

Since COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are new, some people have asked about their effects on those who take them. Short-term side effects (i.e., those that happen in the days after a vaccine has been given) are readily apparent because of clinical trial reports and personal experiences, but people also wonder about possible long-term effects of these vaccines. To answer this question, scientists study the available evidence, and while the rules of science do not allow scientists to say that long-term effects can never happen, the evidence is strong that mRNA vaccines will not cause long-term harm.

The evidence
Vaccine history
The history of vaccines shows that delayed effects following vaccination can occur. But when they do, these effects tend to happen within two months of vaccination:
  • Oral polio vaccine — About 1 in 2.4 million recipients of the oral polio vaccine, which is no longer used in the U.S., were paralyzed following vaccination when the vaccine virus reverted to “wild type” poliovirus. This happened when genetic changes to weaken the virus in the lab were lost during viral replication in the vaccine recipient. Paralysis occurred about seven to 30 days (one to four weeks) after vaccination. Because vaccine recipients “shed” the virus in their stools, on occasion, contacts of these people would be paralyzed when they were infected, and the genetic reversion occurred in them. This secondary event could happen up to 60 days (eight to nine weeks) after the first person was vaccinated (because it took time for the virus to spread to the next person).
  • Yellow fever vaccine — The yellow fever vaccine is not routinely recommended in the U.S., but it is required for travel to certain countries. Two delayed negative effects have been detected after receipt of this vaccine:
    • Nervous system involvement — This effect causes swelling of the brain or spinal cord. It occurred most often when infants younger than 6 months of age received this vaccine, which is why this group is not recommended to get the vaccine. It can also happen, albeit less frequently, in those older than 6 months of age who receive the vaccine. When this happens, the average time between receipt of the vaccine and symptom onset is two weeks, with the range up to three weeks.
    • Viscerotropic disease — This condition is characterized by multisystem organ failure. Yellow fever infection can also cause multisystem organ failure. This adverse event happened so infrequently that it was not described until the early 2000s. In this situation, vaccine virus replicates and spreads throughout the body; onset occurs less than one week after vaccination, most often, occurring about three days after receipt of the vaccine.
  • Influenza vaccine — Two severe adverse events associated with influenza vaccine are also instructive:
    • A 1976 swine influenza vaccine was identified as a rare cause of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), an ascending paralysis that can involve the muscles of breathing; however, subsequent studies have not found flu vaccines to be a cause of GBS. In contrast, influenza infection is also a cause of GBS. GBS occurs 17 times more frequently after natural infection than vaccination. Almost all cases following vaccination occurred in the eight weeks after receipt of the vaccine.
    • In 2009, during the H1N1 pandemic, one influenza vaccine used in Finland was found to cause narcolepsy in about 1 in 55,000 vaccine recipients. Narcolepsy is a sleep disorder characterized by excessive fatigue and periods of sleep throughout the day. Despite various influenza vaccines used during the pandemic, only one caused this issue, which was believed to have resulted from the way that particular vaccine was made. The average onset of symptoms occurred within seven weeks of vaccination.
  • MMR vaccine — About 1 of 30,000 recipients of measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine can experience a temporary decrease in platelets; a condition called thrombocytopenia. Platelets are the cells responsible for clotting of blood. Both measles and mumps infections can cause thrombocytopenia. This condition is most often found between one and three weeks after vaccination, but in a few cases, it occurred up to eight weeks after vaccination.
These experiences demonstrate two important findings. First, when these events occurred, the onset was within eight weeks of receipt of the vaccine. Second, in all of these cases, except narcolepsy following H1N1 vaccine, the side effect of the vaccine was something that could be caused by the infection, meaning that getting infected with the virus also carried a risk of experiencing these outcomes. In the narcolepsy experience, the cause was determined to be related to the adjuvant used in that preparation of vaccine.

*********

Here's a new wrinkle: Alabama fan who attended NCAA Tournament dies from COVID-19: reports

A 23-year old died rather quickly of COVID this past week. This bodes poorly for the youth of the world who are used to a virus that mostly spares 23-year olds, and most of those that are afflicted recover or at worse, develop long haul symptoms, but don't see ICU's, vents, or morgues. Maybe they were careful for a few weeks a year ago, but they quickly learned that they need not be. It's on this basis that they say, "I'm going to Florida on spring break anyway."

That may not work now, and ought to affect everybody's risk management assessment, since the risk of infection is likely to increase with new variants that make it into the virus pool. Remember, mutations are random, and can make the virus more virulent and/or lethal, less, or neither. Only the first kind will meet Darwin's criteria for entering and modifying the viral gene pool (fittest at reproduction), and only for the worse. Mutations to the viral binding protein my make the virus harmless if it can no longer bid, or more dangerous if it binds better. As I said, the former mutations are lost, and the latter replace the less "successful" strain.
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
Report: More Than 20 Vancouver Canucks Players, Coaches Test Positive for COVID
Jenna CiccotelliApril 4, 2021

The outbreak of COVID-19 among the Vancouver Canucks is continuing to spread.

According to Darren Dreger of TSN, more than 20 players and coaches have tested positive for the virus, and family members are also contracting it.

Dreger reported Saturday on SportsCentre that "many players" were "very ill," adding Sunday that they were suffering from symptoms including vomiting, cramping and dehydration. TSN's Farhan Lalji said Saturday that team medical staff has visited players at home for IV treatments.

Report: More Than 20 Vancouver Canucks Players, Coaches Test Positive for COVID

Rapid detection of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern identifying a cluster of B.1.1.28/P.1 variant in British Columbia, Canada
Nancy Matic, Christopher F. Lowe, Gordon Ritchie, Aleksandra Stefanovic, Tanya Lawson, Willson Jang, Matthew Young, Winnie Dong, Zabrina L. Brumme, Chanson J. Brumme, Victor Leung, Marc G. Romney
doi: Rapid detection of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern identifying a cluster of B.1.1.28/P.1 variant in British Columbia, Canada

Abstract
Using a real-time RT-PCR-based algorithm to detect SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern, we rapidly identified 77 variants (57-B.1.1.7, 7-B.1.351, and 13-B.1.1.28/P.1). This protocol enabled our laboratory to screen all SARS-CoV-2 positive samples for variants, and identified a cluster of B.1.1.28/P.1 cases, a variant not previously known to circulate in British Columbia.

Rapid detection of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern identifying a cluster of B.1.1.28/P.1 variant in British Columbia, Canada
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I think you should be more worried about the long-term affects of getting the virus, and which can be very serious, given the statistics. And where the odd negative reaction to the vaccine is seemingly outweighed by the possible virus affects. If one is being rational, that is.
We all know how the virus is transmitted. Given that I am not in contact with anyone, how can I get the virus? Why do I need the shot to protect me from something that cannot happen. That is like wearing a seat belt around the house in case I might have a car accident. I am being rational.

If I decide to start engaging in activities outside the house where I come into contact with people then I will reassess. If I cared about those activities I would probably get the vaccine now, but I do not give a twit about the activities most people care about, they are boring to me.

Another thing is that this virus won't be around forever, so I can wait it out. Unlike most people, I am in no hurry to "get back to normal life" because I never had a normal life to begin with. ;)
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
It need not be an either/or. A person can believe in the medics and scientists and still not want the shot. ;)

I had a doctor who mentioned an outpatient treatment after I was diagnosed with venous insufficiency. Because my condition has not been serious enough I have not wanted the procedure because of the risk from known rare side effects

So if your hesitation is based on what mine is, carefully looking at the facts involved, I agree with you.

If it's based on your lifestyle being low risk which leads you to wait until those who want it now get the jab, I have no reason to object to your choice.
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
For anyone still undecided, please try to watch at least the last 20 minutes of this video..

Starting at around 21:00 min.

Try to grasp and consider what this guy is saying.

Just listen to the last half.

Geert Vanden Bossche

 

Suave

Simulated character
I haven't took it yet. I'm leary of side effects that may come with a drug/ vaccine developed so quickly.
I put myself as undecided.
I haven't took it yet. I'm leary of side effects that may come with a drug/ vaccine developed so quickly.
I put myself as undecided.
I have just received received my first dose of the BioNTech Pfizer C. O. V. I. D. -19 vaccine, I am doing very well. I am so looking forward to being fully immunized against the S. A. R. S. -C. O. V.- 2 virus.
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
Watching a dentist talk about vaccination? Waste of time.

Ok, then just listen to his PhD degree in Virology from the University of Hohenheim, Germany part.

(Get your cat fixed at your local Vet.)

Geert Vanden Bossche (DVM, PhD)

Geert Vanden Bossche received his DVM from the University of Ghent, Belgium, and his PhD degree in Virology from the University of Hohenheim, Germany. He held adjunct faculty appointments at universities in Belgium and Germany. After his career in Academia, Geert joined several vaccine companies (GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines, Solvay Biologicals) to serve various roles in vaccine R&D as well as in late vaccine development.

Geert then moved on to join the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Discovery team in Seattle (USA) as Senior Program Officer; he then worked with the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization (GAVI) in Geneva as Senior Ebola Program Manager. At GAVI he tracked efforts to develop an Ebola vaccine. He also represented GAVI in fora with other partners, including WHO, to review progress on the fight against Ebola and to build plans for global pandemic preparedness.

Back in 2015, Geert scrutinized and questioned the safety of the Ebola vaccine that was used in ring vaccination trials conducted by WHO in Guinea. His critical scientific analysis and report on the data published by WHO in the Lancet in 2015 was sent to all international health and regulatory authorities involved in the Ebola vaccination program.

After working for GAVI, Geert joined the German Center for Infection Research in Cologne as Head of the Vaccine Development Office. He is at present primarily serving as a Biotech/ Vaccine consultant while also conducting his own research on Natural Killer cell-based vaccines.​
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
True there are things we may never know. But either we are paralyzed with doubt or we choose to act on what we do know.
Or if we are not sure we can wait and play it by ear, like I have waited to retire.
Once I retire I can never get my job back again, just like once I get the vaccine I can never get it out of my body.
Imo, one has to weigh the costs and benefits given their personal situation, not just run with the crowd.
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
We all know how the virus is transmitted. Given that I am not in contact with anyone, how can I get the virus? Why do I need the shot to protect me from something that cannot happen. That is like wearing a seat belt around the house in case I might have a car accident. I am being rational.

If I decide to start engaging in activities outside the house where I come into contact with people then I will reassess. If I cared about those activities I would probably get the vaccine now, but I do not give a twit about the activities most people care about, they are boring to me.

Another thing is that this virus won't be around forever, so I can wait it out. Unlike most people, I am in no hurry to "get back to normal life" because I never had a normal life to begin with. ;)

I'm with you 100% Trailblazer, i couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm curious how long it's going to be in my area when the vaccine will be required in order for me to keep my job.

Where I live the employer has the right to require I take the vaccine when it becomes available.

I doubt that the current version of vaccines will ever get us back to normal.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Imo, one has to weigh the costs and benefits given their personal situation, not just run with the crowd.

You can say that again. Also, trying to encourage people to get the vaccine is backfiring. People should make decisions for themselves not be coerced as if everyone was in the same situation and everyone has the same level of risk as the person beside him or her. Fear comes from the unknown. Possible risk and safe than sorry are based on the unknown thereby motivated by fear. If one actually had the illness, there is no more possibility of transmission, therefore, one has motivation to choose for oneself whether or not they are around people that their symptoms (seen or not) will spread to others. There is a better incentive to get the vaccine if so one chooses. Not sure why or how people don't get the difference between risk and fact. But, anyway, I don't talk and be around anyone while I'm outside long enough to have any high level risk to get it. The risk is there, why worry (or be "concerned") about it if your risk is so low for yourself that it would be a miracle (play on words) for you to get it.
 
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Suave

Simulated character
In my opinion whether a person takes the vaccine or not doesn't make them good or bad. They are just expressing their personal choice which should be respected.
As much as I don,'t mind being double masked, I would prefer being fully vaccinated and bare faced. I would also like others to get vaccinated, so I can see their happy smiley faces.
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
just like once I get the vaccine I can never get it out of my body.

That's what Geert Vanden Bossche said in the video.

He said it's like downloading a new software into your operating system.

He thinks we're very close to vaccine resistance right now.

But that when people get the vaccine, they still get sars-cov-2, and then become asymptomatic spreaders. This situation then become worse than it was at the start during a lock-down.

People then throw the masks away and become super-spreaders, incubating and mutating a live virus as they go about their daily routine.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
COVID vaccines underwent the same safety testing as any other vaccine. Vaccines were rolled out quickly because pharmaceutical companies received funding to manufacture vaccines simultaneously with testing, which normally does not happen.
That is untrue what you say here

Normally vaccines are tested for 1 decade or more. Obviously to know about long term effect. This obviously has not been done.

Hence the manifacturers refuse to take responsibility when things go wrong (I heard them say this a few month ago). So, you take the vaccine, fine, but they guarantee till the the point that the vaccine enters your body.

I understand this of course. They had not the usual 10 to 20 years to see long term effect. So obviously no long term guarantee, just 60 minutes or so, until you leave the hospital :D (probably you have to pay yourself in case trouble hit the fan) I do love Russian roulette, so it has a certain charm. Sai Baba always said "Love My uncertainty"

IF they had full faith in the vaccines, they would take full responsibility. In Holland Big Pharma talked with the government, that the goverment has to take all responsibility, at least BP won't.
@stvdvRF
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm with you 100% Trailblazer, i couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm curious how long it's going to be in my area when the vaccine will be required in order for me to keep my job.

Where I live the employer has the right to require I take the vaccine when it becomes available.

I doubt that the current version of vaccines will ever get us back to normal.
I don't know where you live, but I live in Washington State and I work for the state. The first week of March 2020 is when we were ordered by the governor to start working from home and we were all assigned a laptop. Of course at that time nobody knew how long this would last but we have been getting periodic updates from the director of my agency. Some time ago they opened the building up for people who wanted to enter and work but very few people are working in the building and even they are only going in one or two days a week.

I have no way of knowing if they will ever ask us to return to work in the office, and I am not going to worry about it. My work does not require me to work in the office so I think my boss would let me continue working from home even if the agency ordered employees to come back to work in the office. Many people were already working from home some days or all days before the pandemic, so I see no reason why I would have to come back to work in the office. But if I was ordered to I would then be able to make the decision to work in the office or retire because I am way past the age where I need to continue working and I do not need the extra money since I can get my pension and social security and I have many other assets and income streams.

If the state agencies ordered people to come back to work in the office, the governor could require that everyone get the vaccine, and it is at that time that I would probably retire, if I was ordered to go back to work in the office.

I do not know what I would do if I were in your situation and the company mandated the vaccine, it would depend upon how much I liked my job and if I could get another job. Imo, requiring that everyone take the vaccine is just wrong, but private companies or even the government agencies can do it and we have no control over that.

I also doubt that the current version of vaccines will ever get us back to pre-pandemic life, which is what most people are hoping for. Frankly, I don't think any vaccines are going to accomplish that because I do not believe that is what God wants for humanity, but that is another discussion.

I hope people who have lost their jobs or businesses get back on their feet because that is essential for living, but as for all the other worldly things that people consider normal, I have no interest in them. I am not saying that other people have to share my views, I wish them well if they enjoy these things. Some of my favorite Bible verses are below. I believe that are pertinent to this discussion or "getting back to normal" so I am going to post them.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
 
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