• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Ask a Mormon! (Part Two)

DeepShadow

White Crow
Moving on, I recall a question from the previosu thread that I'd like to expand on: exorcism. Sticking to the standard works, I believe one of the most intriguing examples of an exorcism is in the Book of Moses:

Moses 1:21 And now Satan began to tremble, and the earth shook; and Moses received strength, and called upon God, saying: In the name of the Only Begotten, depart hence, Satan.
22 And it came to pass that Satan cried with a loud voice, with weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and he departed hence, even from the presence of Moses, that he beheld him not.

What I find important about this is that the evil spirit was not cast out of a person, but out of the presence of a person.

Moving into opinion and person experience, I've been present at several of these types of exorcism, so many that I find them to be more the rule than the exception. I'd prefer not to go into details but suffice it to say that we do believe in exorcism, just not necessarily in the soup-spitting, levitating kind.
 

PHOTOTAKER

Well-Known Member
honestly you guys i don't thank you should spikulate in this form... however this will happen first before the 2nd coming...

before this passages is fullfilled the prophet seer and revalator will call the stakes of Zion to gather in there places of meeting, here the saints will be safe from the strif of the world, beleive me this is not a pritty picture...

docerine and covenits 29:12-21
12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall ccome forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.
14 But, behold, I say unto you that before this great day shall come the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall be turned into blood, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and there shall be greater signs in heaven above and in the earth beneath;
15 And there shall be weeping and wailing among the hosts of men;
16 And there shall be a great hailstorm sent forth to destroy the crops of the earth.
17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine dindignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.
18 Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;
19 And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;
20 And it shall come to pass that the beasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up.
21 And the great and aabominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Emu said:
Do you believe in the rapture?
To clarify, in the book "Mormon Doctrine," written by Bruce R. McConkie, a former deceased apostle of the LDS church, he states, and I'll paraphrase what he said so as to not complicate this issue, there is a "morning" and an "afternoon" of the "first resurrection" at the beginning of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ here on earth.

To me this says there will be two "catching aways/raptures/first resurrections" prior to Jesus Christ setting up his kingdom on the earth, for those who have lived a Celestial life, they will experience the "morning of the first resurrection" and those who have lived a Terrestrial life, will experience the "afternoon of the first resurrection.

Then there will be a "morning and an "afternoon" of the "second resurrection" at the end of the millennial reign of Christ on the earth.

Those who have lived a Telestial life will experience the "morning of the second resurrection," at the end of the millennial reign of Christ on the earth.

Likewise those who have lived a life worthy of Outer Darkness will experience the "afternoon of the second resurrection".

Celestial (highest kingdom) - Those worthy of this kingdom will experience the morning of the first resurrection sometime just prior to the Lord setting up his kingdom on the earth for a thousand years.

Terrestrial (next highest kingdom) - Those worthy of this kingdom will experience the afternoon of the first resurrection sometime just prior to the Lord setting up his kingdom on the earth for a thousand years.

Both of these two different groups will spend a thousand years with Christ on earth. It would be safe to say these were "Christ's at his coming".

Telestial (lowest kingdom) - Those worthy of this kingdom will experience the morning of the second resurrection, sometime at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ, after they have spent this time suffering for their sins in hell or just confined in spirit prison....

Outer Darkness (type of hellish place is all I can say) - Those condemned to this place will experience the afternoon of the second resurrection, sometime towards the end of the millennial reign of Christ, after they have spent this time suffering for their sins in hell.....

Both of these groups of people will spend a thousand years paying for their own sins. It would be safe to say these were not "Christ's at his coming"
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
Alright, I think we understand your position now, FFH. If this is going to continue, start a debate thread among fellow LDS, and invite comprehend.

Are there any unanswered questions?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Shall I try to figure out how to move the group of posts about the Rapture to the one-on-one debates forum and allow only LDS to post? I know how to move entire threads to different forums, but I've never figured out how to just move selected posts out of an existing thread and into another. This really has been turned into a debate, so I'm thinking that it might be a good idea.
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
Katzpur said:
Shall I try to figure out how to move the group of posts about the Rapture to the one-on-one debates forum and allow only LDS to post? I know how to move entire threads to different forums, but I've never figured out how to just move selected posts out of an existing thread and into another. This really has been turned into a debate, so I'm thinking that it might be a good idea.

sure. it would be pretty short when somebody realizes that the Left Behind series isn't one of our standard works...
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
Here's one in paraphrase, extracted from Preach's post about the lost manuscript:

2) How was the translation of the Book of Mormon accomplished?

Many accounts popular in anti-Mormon literature claim that Joseph's process ("magic spectacles," seer stones in a hat, etc.) magically turned ancient languages into plain English. This leads to the obvious accusation that the text of the Book of Mormon has been altered, even by Joseph Smith himself. The problem is, these are secondhand accounts of the translation, and not accepted by the LDS church as doctrinal. The exact details of translation are unknown, but we do find mention of the process in the Doctrine and Covenants, when the opportunity to translate is given to Oliver Cowdery for a brief time. It didn't turn out well for him, as the Lord explains in D&C Section 9:

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

Based on the italicized section, one might infer that Cowdery had a frame of mind similar to David Whitmer--one of the sources of the secondhand reports. That is, all he had to do was look through the lenses, or, in this case, ask God, and he would know what the words were. The bold words highlight what he actually had to do: study the words, and use his mind, and seek confirmation from the Lord.

For this reason, Joseph Smith Jr.'s influence is felt all over the Book of Mormon as translator. Folks who point out that this or that word betrays the influence of an 1800's American author are missing the point. If you think the influence goes beyond word and grammar choice--that is, beyond the role of a translator--then please start a debate thread on the topic. I haven't had anyone to talk to about Book of Mormon evidences in a long time, and I'd enjoy a friendly debate.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
Katzpur said:
Shall I try to figure out how to move the group of posts about the Rapture to the one-on-one debates forum and allow only LDS to post? I know how to move entire threads to different forums, but I've never figured out how to just move selected posts out of an existing thread and into another. This really has been turned into a debate, so I'm thinking that it might be a good idea.

I'd just start the new thread.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Bwahaha Comprehend...
At risk of starting another RLDS( :p )... The Beast/Antichrist?
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
Mister Emu said:
Bwahaha Comprehend...
At risk of starting another RLDS( :p )... The Beast/Antichrist?


We do not believe there will be one single anti-Christ that will come in the last days but rather that there have been and will be many anti-Christs. "Antichrists are those who deny the divinity of Jesus Christ or essential parts of his gospel and actively oppose the followers of Christ or seek to destroy their faith. " (Encyclopedia of Mormonism).

The bible indicates that there will be many antiChrists as shown below,

1 Jn 2:18
18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 Jn 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 Jn 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 Jn 1:7
7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

The Book of Mormon also has anti-christs that one may read about in Jacob 7:1-23; Alma 1:2-16; and Alma 30:6-60.

Anti-christs will be particularly prevalent in the last days and thus the discussion in the book of Revelations.

As for the beast, James E. Talmage wrote this in his book The Great Apostasy which is standard reading for all LDS.

James E. Talmage, The Great Apostasy, p.30 - 31
34. John, who is called the Revelator, saw in vision the state of the world in the days then future. Describing the spirit of unrighteousness as a hideous beast, and its author, Satan, as the dragon, he says: "And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

It has also been described as "ungodliness" or some other thing that is contrary to God and his teachings.

Joseph Smith had a view on it too:

Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.293
"All the world wondered after the beast," Nebuchadnezzar and Constantine the Great not excepted. And if the beast was all the world, how could the world wonder after the beast? It must have been a wonderful beast to cause all human beings to wonder after it; and I will venture to say that when God allows the old devil to give power to the beast to destroy the inhabitants of the earth, all will wonder. Verse 4 reads, "And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

Bottom line. As far as the Beast goes, there are a lot of people with opinions but no official doctrine.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree on the antichrist part, but put it in there, because many associate that word with the beast.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Mister Emu said:
I agree on the antichrist part, but put it in there, because many associate that word with the beast.
I also agree with Comprehends last post. There will be many antichrist's and there have been many antichrists. Anyone who professes that Jesus Christ is not the Messiah is a type of antichrist

The President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is an antichrist as is Bin Laden. Hitler and Saddam were antichrists.

As far as the final antichrist/beast goes, this person will have a larger influence over the world. He will have to fit the criteria, which the scriptures clearly state....

The final antichrist will more than likely not come onto the scen, until after we're gone.
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
FFH said:
The final antichrist will more than likely not come onto the scene. until after we're gone.

yes. for those of us who have been "left behind" we will have to form a "tribulation force" with kirk cameron as our leader...

or, it could happen how the scriptures say, without any rapture in which case we will still be here.

It sounds like you are saying both that there are many antichrists and that there will be one main antichrist that comes at the end.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Katzpur said:
Shall I try to figure out how to move the group of posts about the Rapture to the one-on-one debates forum and allow only LDS to post? I know how to move entire threads to different forums, but I've never figured out how to just move selected posts out of an existing thread and into another. This really has been turned into a debate, so I'm thinking that it might be a good idea.
Depending on the vB version of this forum, you should be able to select the posts you want to move, then go to the mod drop down menu at the bottom right of the window and select 'Move Posts.' You'll then get a window that should allow you to rename the thread and select the forum you want to put it in...

If it's the older vB version, you'll have to use the 'split thread' option in the 'Thread Tools' drop down menu at the top of the thread...
 
Top