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Quran give answer to why humans can not find physical being called Allah

Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Nimos said:
That is not really a problem I think, the issues you face are pretty much exactly the same when it comes to truth, even if you prefer a more spiritual reality. How do you establish one spiritual truth over another? You get these informations from other people and from what you read in the religious text you prefer, but in regards to which of them are more likely to be true, requires that you have some sort of method for figuring it out.

Your faith tells you that the Qur'an give you the correct spiritual guidance that you need, but how did you verify that?
Click to expand...
The thing is that the verification comes through practice of the teachings, and since i have in the path practiced other forms of religious belief i found that it comes down to personal experiences and understanding of the scriptures.
So since i understand it as personal journey, those answers i have gained does not have to be the same as others have come to understand, and that does not mean one is wrong and an other is right. it all come down to where on the spiritual journey you are.
 
Dave Watchman

Dave Watchman

Active Member
Conscious thoughts said:
Does this verse in the Quran tell us that we as human beings will not find conclusive evidence of Allah?
Note here that in this discussion/debate I do not ask for critique of Quran or of Allah, only about what a seeker may find of "evidence" or faith when searching for Allah.

Sura 42:51-52
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...

So what is the kind of inspiration we can gain from Allah?
Does this verse tell skeptics that they will not find the "solid" evidence they need to believe? (note again, not critique of Allah)

What is the light that is spoken about when the verse say "we have made the quran a light" ?
Click to expand...

I read it over a couple times and can't really understand it.

I can't detect the evidence for Allah.

This part concerns me:

"And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...​

Who is the "We", by "Our command?"

Who is the "Our", in "Our command?

We guide such of Our servants as We will?

Maybe something was lost in the translation?

The way I read it, the way it sounds to me, is that the followers of the Qur'an are the Ones who have made it, the (Qur'an), a light.

The followers of the Qur'an are the Ones who guide their servants as THEY will.

Or maybe I'm reading it erroneously.

The Christian Bible, says that we CAN find evidence for the God of Abraham.

It says what may be known about God, is plain to them.

For God is evident in the things that He made

"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. - Romans 1:20​

Peaceful Sabbath.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Dave Watchman said:
I read it over a couple times and can't really understand it.

I can't detect the evidence for Allah.

This part concerns me:

"And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...​

Who is the "We", by "Our command?"

Who is the "Our", in "Our command?

We guide such of Our servants as We will?

Maybe something was lost in the translation?

The way I read it, the way it sounds to me, is that the followers of the Qur'an are the Ones who have made it, the (Qur'an), a light.

The followers of the Qur'an are the Ones who guide their servants as THEY will.

Or maybe I'm reading it erroneously.

The Christian Bible, says that we CAN find evidence for the God of Abraham.

It says what may be known about God, is plain to them.

For God is evident in the things that He made

"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. - Romans 1:20​

Peaceful Sabbath.
Click to expand...
In my understanding the We is Allah and Angels and probably Muhammad (who is the prophet who revielded the teach)
Our command is Allah
Allah guide human beings who is Allahs servants
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Conscious thoughts said:
Does this verse in the Quran tell us that we as human beings will not find conclusive evidence of Allah?
Note here that in this discussion/debate I do not ask for critique of Quran or of Allah, only about what a seeker may find of "evidence" or faith when searching for Allah.

Sura 42:51-52
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...

So what is the kind of inspiration we can gain from Allah?
Does this verse tell skeptics that they will not find the "solid" evidence they need to believe? (note again, not critique of Allah)

What is the light that is spoken about when the verse say "we have made the quran a light" ?
Click to expand...

I believe it means one does not find God unless one is inspired. The Pharisees only could see a man who disagreed with them. Matthew and John could see God in Jesus. Can you?

The verse says what the light is: a guide.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Aupmanyav said:
What inspiration can one get from things which have no evidence?
Why is it not fitting for Allah to speak directly to a person (when he has all the powers to do so) and why only through a mediator?
Click to expand...

I believe God has no problem speaking to people but people do have a problem hearing Him. For those who can't hear it helps to have someone available who can hear like me.

I believe the word of God can be inspirational.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Dave Watchman said:
I read it over a couple times and can't really understand it.

I can't detect the evidence for Allah.

This part concerns me:

"And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...​

Who is the "We", by "Our command?"

Who is the "Our", in "Our command?

We guide such of Our servants as We will?

Maybe something was lost in the translation?

The way I read it, the way it sounds to me, is that the followers of the Qur'an are the Ones who have made it, the (Qur'an), a light.

The followers of the Qur'an are the Ones who guide their servants as THEY will.

Or maybe I'm reading it erroneously.

The Christian Bible, says that we CAN find evidence for the God of Abraham.

It says what may be known about God, is plain to them.

For God is evident in the things that He made

"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. - Romans 1:20​

Peaceful Sabbath.
Click to expand...

I would suppose that the angel is speaking and includes Allah in the we with himself.
 
Dave Watchman

Dave Watchman

Active Member
Conscious thoughts said:
In my understanding the We is Allah and Angels and probably Muhammad (who is the prophet who revielded the teach)
Our command is Allah
Allah guide human beings who is Allahs servants
Click to expand...

Yes I find different translations:

"And thus We have sent to you (O Muhammad SAW) Ruhan (an Inspiration, and a Mercy) of Our Command. You knew not what is the Book, nor what is Faith? But We have made it (this Quran) a light wherewith We guide whosoever of Our slaves We will. And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are indeed guiding (mankind) to the Straight Path (i.e. Allah's religion of Islamic Monotheism). - Muhsin Khan

"Even so We revealed to you, (O Prophet), a spirit by Our command.3 (Ere to that) you knew neither what the Book nor what the faith was.4 But We made that spirit a light whereby We guide those of Our servants whom We please to the Right Way. Surely you are directing people to the Right Way, - Tafheem-ul-Quran - Abul Ala Maududi


Peaceful Sabbath.
 
Nimos

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Conscious thoughts said:
The thing is that the verification comes through practice of the teachings, and since i have in the path practiced other forms of religious belief i found that it comes down to personal experiences and understanding of the scriptures.
So since i understand it as personal journey, those answers i have gained does not have to be the same as others have come to understand, and that does not mean one is wrong and an other is right. it all come down to where on the spiritual journey you are.
Click to expand...
It seems to me like you are talking more about what personally make sense for you, which is perfectly fine.

But when it comes to seeking truth, I don't really see how it is relevant.

If I understood you correctly, you see yourself as fairly new on this path, you have a teacher which is further on it, because he have studied more than you. But if another teacher with equal experience were to help you, both of them would be equally right, even if they disagree and it would just be up to you to pick and choose who you taught make the most sense?

I don't see how that helps you determine truth, rather than personal preference?
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Nimos said:
It seems to me like you are talking more about what personally make sense for you, which is perfectly fine.

But when it comes to seeking truth, I don't really see how it is relevant.

If I understood you correctly, you see yourself as fairly new on this path, you have a teacher which is further on it, because he have studied more than you. But if another teacher with equal experience were to help you, both of them would be equally right, even if they disagree and it would just be up to you to pick and choose who you taught make the most sense?

I don't see how that helps you determine truth, rather than personal preference?
Click to expand...
The reason i speak of personal experience is because i can not speak for how others experience religion, And as you say, yes i am new on the sufi path. it means until my own understanding is becomming higher, i listen to my teacher, and follow in his footsteps so to speak. And if i speak with other sufi masters/read what they written, i might get a new point of view. then when i am alone i will look at all the teaching given to me, and see if i can gain more understanding. (spiritual/religious practice is a personal journey within one self.

So other people will give you their answer according to how they have realized the teaching they practice
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Conscious thoughts said:
In my understanding the We is Allah and Angels and probably Muhammad (who is the prophet who revielded the teach)
Our command is Allah
Allah guide human beings who is Allahs servants
Click to expand...

What? Wow brother. Thats absolutely not right.

This is first person plural. Mahali rafa faal. This is not plural of numbers here it is "Pluralis Majestatis".
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
RestlessSoul said:
I suspect absolute truth exists beyond human conception, because after 5000 years of recorded human history, no one's cracked it yet.
Of course, 5000 years is but the batting of an eyelid, and it is just a suspicion.
Click to expand...
IMHO, it has already been found. Only that it needs some cleaning up. Perhaps you have not searched around.
 
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