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Noachidism

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Or, 'Why I Left This Set of Beliefs' by Rival d'RF.

I didn't really want to write this, but after being contacted by multiple folks all wondering the same thing I've decided just to go ahead and wrap this up.

I had been a Noahide for four years, after becoming convinced out of Christianity. I understood how, in my opinion, Jesus could not have been the Mashiach according to Tanakh. I couldn't continue in Christianity after this, albeit there were other issues too (deifying a man, the concept of Satan as an evil figure not present in Tanakh, etc.). So I become a Noachide, still being fully convinced of the truth of Judaism and Tanakh. Naturally I'm paraphrasing a lot here, but you get the picture.

Noachidism is the path for those who are not born Jewish but maintain a belief in the truth of Judaism. This is mostly seen in Orthodox circles but not exclusively. Some folks have called it a 'Zionistic religion' and others have said, well, worse things. Suffice it to say, the basic tenets of Noachidism are the Sheva Mitzvot - The Seven Laws.
  1. Not to worship idols.
  2. Not to curse God.
  3. Not to commit murder.
  4. Not to commit adultery, bestiality, or sexual immorality.
  5. Not to steal.
  6. Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
  7. To establish courts of justice.
These also branch out into at least 30 laws but I'm going to stick with the 7, because they're the basis. This said, according to Orthodox Jewish understanding, the Bnei Noach cannot make a religion for themselves. This is where my problems began.

This means no holidays and neither can one celebrate non-Jewish holidays. I live in a tiny village with the nearest city a half hour train ride away. So there were no Jewish holidays pour moi, either. I had nothing to celebrate, nor was I allowed to make my own celebrations or join others'. There is no prayerbook (you will be told there is the Brit Olam but this prayerbook did not work for me and many others; it does not come off as anything remotely like a real siddur and it has links to the 'new Sanhedrin', which is problematic for many). There are no rites or rituals, houses of worship, bodies of literature, hymns, or anything one would associate with a religion. You cannot attend a 'Noachide service' (and if you have you have been blessed - these are rare birds) or walk into a Noachide bookshop. There are no fast days; no liturgical calendars or prayer times.

In other words there is nothing religious about Noachidism. It is a set of beliefs, dictated by Jewish authorities, that you abide and nothing more. You cannot fill your home with Noachide art, books, holiday décor or otherwise.

And there is no community to speak of. Chances are, if you become a Noachide it's going to be just you. Just you with no holidays, no rituals, no prayerbooks, no artwork, no literature, no fasts, not anything.

This is the position I found myself in, and I may as well have had no religion at all. The trouble was I was convinced that Judaism is true and as I could not convert (various personal and financial reasons) I was stuck with it. I was also very fundamentalist and wondered, how would I ever find a partner? Raise kids, without exposing them to Christian stuff? How could I live the rest of my life being so lonely? It reached the point where I became dangerously suicidal; I actually went and bought some razor blades to kill myself with. I would fantasise night after night about ending it. I would have whole days lying in bed; I would refuse to eat; I would go whole days doing nothing at all, but feeling numb and miserable.

So something had to give. I talked this out with someone close and I decided not to kill myself, to unfortunately start looking into new religions. I could not go for any other Abrahamic faiths since they all have Jesus and other folks I consider false prophets. I couldn't go for Sikhism as their conception of God and overall approach just doesn't work for me. I couldn't go for any of the European Paganisms as I've never felt close to those faiths - they do not call to me. I've never had any interest in them, nor did they really lend themselves to my theological leanings. This goes for Dharmic faiths, too.

Thus, I went to the only one that had made any sense to me, aside from Judaism, from my childhood and on - ancient Egyptian religion. It lends itself well to certain monotheistic interpretations, wherein one God can be seen as the Creator and others as Manifestations of Him, or Emanations, or however one sees it. Some may see this as henotheistic or monolatristic, but there it is. So I dived into that and read more about it, coming to the conclusion that this will suit me just fine. It has theological concepts I can grasp, it has lots of literature, it has symbols, things I can decorate my room with, it has rituals, offerings, a liturgical calendar and so on. I suppose I would now be counted among the Cut of Amun-Ra, which sees Amun as the transcendent, hidden, penetrative force in the world, who emanates/speaks through other manifestations.

So this isn't me severing myself from Judaism, either. I still love Judaism and Tanakh, but it's not mine.

8305efdeff2a055b503b544c22fd9d2bd6d77304.jpg
 
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Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Are there other believers who
can provide a social life?
Don't be lonely.
I've given up looking for a community in any religion. Only the Abrahamic and Sikh and Dharmic ones are really available in that area.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Basically in this country it's a religious wasteland unless you're a Christian or a Muslim, or live in a big city.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Or 'Why I Left This Set of Beliefs' by Rival de RF.

I didn't really want to write this, but after being contacted by multiple folks all wondering the same thing I've decided just to go ahead and wrap this up.

I had been a Noahide for four years, after becoming convinced out of Christianity. I understood how, in my opinion, Jesus could not have been the Mashiach according to Tanakh. I couldn't continue in Christianity after this, albeit there were other issues too (deifying a man, the concept of Satan as an evil figure not present in Tanakh, etc.). So I become a Noachide, still being fully convinced of the truth of Judaism and Tanakh. Naturally I'm paraphrasing a lot here, but you get the picture.

Noachidism is the path for those who are not born Jewish, but who maintain a belief in the truth of Judaism. This is mostly seen in Orthodox circles but not exclusively. Some folks have called it a 'Zionistic religion' and others have said, well, worse things. Suffice it to say, the basic tenets of Noachidism are the Sheva Mitzvot - The Seven Laws.
  1. Not to worship idols.
  2. Not to curse God.
  3. Not to commit murder.
  4. Not to commit adultery, bestiality, or sexual immorality.
  5. Not to steal.
  6. Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
  7. To establish courts of justice.
These also branch out into at least 30 laws but for the time being I'm going to stick with the 7, because they're the basis. This said, according to Orthodox Jewish understanding, the Bnei Noach cannot make a religion for themselves. This is where my problems began.

This means no holidays and neither can one celebrate non-Jewish holidays. I live in a tiny village with the nearest city a half hour train ride away. So there were no Jewish holidays pour moi, either. I had nothing to celebrate, nor was I allowed to make my own celebrations or join others'. There is no prayerbook (you will be told there is the Brit Olam, but this prayerbook did not work for me and many others; it does not come off as anything remotely like a real siddur and it has links to the 'new Sanhedrin', which is problematic for many). There are no rites or rituals, houses of worship, bodies of literature, hymns, or anything one would associate with a religion. You cannot attend a 'Noachide service' (and if you have, you have been blessed - these are rare birds) or walk into a Noachide bookshop. There are no fast days; no liturgical calendars or prayer times.

In other words, there is nothing religious about Noachidism. It is a set of beliefs, dictated by Jewish authorities, that you abide by and nothing more. You cannot fill your home with Noachide art, books, holiday décor or otherwise.

And there is no community to speak of. Chances are, if you become a Noachide it's going to be just you. Just you with no holidays, no rituals, no prayerbooks, no artwork, no literature, no fasts, not anything.

This is the position I found myself in, and I may as well have had no religion at all. The trouble was, I was convinced that Judaism is true, and as I could not convert (various personal and financial reasons), I was stuck with it. I was also very fundamentalist and wondered, how would I ever find a partner? Raise kids, without exposing them to Christian stuff? How could I live the rest of my life being so lonely? It reached the point where I became dangerously suicidal, I actually went and bought some razor blades to kill myself with. I would fantasise night after night about ending it. I would have whole days lying in bed; I would refuse to eat; I would go whole days doing nothing at all, but feeling numb and miserable.

So something had to give. I talked this out with someone close and I decided not to kill myself, to unfortunately start looking into new religions. I could not go for any other Abrahamic faiths since they all have Jesus and other folks I consider false prophets. I couldn't go for Sikhism as their conception of God and overall approach just doesn't work for me. I couldn't go for any of the European Paganisms, as I've never felt close to those faiths, they do not call to me. I've never had any interest in them, nor did they really lend themselves to my theological leanings. This goes for Dharmic faiths, too.

Thus, I went to the only one that had made any sense to me, aside from Judaism, from my childhood and on. Ancient Egyptian religion. It lends itself well to certain monotheistic interpretations, wherein one God can be seen as the Creator and others as manifestations of Him, or emanations, or however one sees it. Some may see this as henotheistic or monolatristic, but there it is. So I dived into that and read more about it, coming to the conclusion that this will suit me just fine. It has theological concepts I can grasp, it has lots of literature, it has symbols, things I can decorate my room with, it has rituals, offerings, a liturgical calendar and so on. I suppose I would now be counted among the Cut of Amun-Re, which sees Amun as the transcendent, hidden, penetrative force in the world, who emanates/speaks through other manifestations.

So this isn't me severing myself from Judaism, either. I still love Judaism and Tanakh, but it's not mine.

ancient-egyptian-god-horus-deity-with-falcon-head-pharaoh-crown-cartoon-illustration-old-art-style_144101-72.jpg
I think we all benefited a little from your noachide research and the resultant discussions. We had some interesting posts about Noachides, too.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
Hmmm... You know, you've always come across to me as someone who is very level headed and logical, and though I haven't always agreed with the things you've posted, you've always been someone I respect. Not really much more to add than that!

I'm curious to know how your journey down this path goes... If you ever wanted to post your experiences, I'd definitely read it. :) I always feel like I learn something when it's a post you make.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Hmmm... You know, you've always come across to me as someone who is very level headed and logical, and though I haven't always agreed with the things you've posted, you've always been someone I respect. Not really much more to add than that!

I'm curious to know how your journey down this path goes... If you ever wanted to post your experiences, I'd definitely read it. :) I always feel like I learn something when it's a post you make.
Thanks, this is really nice to read :)

Maybe I'll keep folks posted, we'll see.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Akhenaten began the end of the first dynasty through his conversion. Akhenaten began life as Amenhotep #4. His son was the last in the original dynastic line according to some. By one (controversial but enticing) theory, his servant betrayed him and using his only heir returned Egypt to its original religion, also killed that heir and founded a new dynasty through a successful general that had many sons. Up until then Egypt had been ruled by an unbroken bloodline starting from Narmer.

You may want to look up Akhenaten's Hymn to the Aten. I have not read it, but I bet someone has figured out at tune for it.
Great Hymn to the Aten - Wikipedia

Akhenaten essentially ruined the priests of his time and cost (in donations from pillaging) the temples dearly, which explains why the country was so quick to reject his new religion. He hurt the country financially and militarily. He moved away from the cities and founded a new city, Thebes, where he served as the nation's religious leader. He, unlike previous pharoahs, never enjoyed war. He was an alien to his own people. "Akhenaten's god was so abstract that his subjects were probably unable to embrace the concept and unwilling to embrace the religion." -- Great Pharoahs of Egypt Course Guidebook from Great Courses Plus.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Akhenaten began the end of the first dynasty through his conversion. Akhenaten began life as Amenhotep #4. His son was the last in the original dynastic line according to some. By one (controversial but enticing) theory, his servant betrayed him and using his only heir returned Egypt to its original religion, also killed that heir and founded a new dynasty through a successful general that had many sons. Up until then Egypt had been ruled by an unbroken bloodline starting from Narmer.

You may want to look up Akhenaten's Hymn to the Aten. I have not read it, but I bet someone has figured out at tune for it.
Great Hymn to the Aten - Wikipedia

Akhenaten essentially ruined the priests of his time and cost (in donations from pillaging) the temples dearly, which explains why the country was so quick to reject his new religion. He hurt the country financially and militarily. He moved away from the cities and founded a new city, Thebes, where he served as the nation's religious leader. He, unlike previous pharoahs, never enjoyed war. He was an alien to his own people. "Akhenaten's god was so abstract that his subjects were probably unable to embrace the concept and unwilling to embrace the religion." -- Great Pharoahs of Egypt Course Guidebook from Great Courses Plus.
Indeed, I know about this, but it's not really my thing. I dislike the concept of such an abstract God that has no warmth, so to speak. I need a more personal God.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Indeed, I know about this, but it's not really my thing. I dislike the concept of such an abstract God that has no warmth, so to speak. I need a more personal God.
I'm not surprised you'd know and just like talking. No doubt I'll learn a little more as a result of this move you've made.

You held out for a long time with such a lonely path. I did wonder how anyone had the energy to pursue such complicated lessons and changes. You were learning another language and prayers and making all kinds of changes to your lifestyle. I suppose when you complained about not knowing any other Noachides and not fitting in that it didn't strike home with me, but this move helps me understand. Its more concrete. Its big change.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Does your new paradigm put you in a better place then? (Within the wasteland :rolleyes: )
Nope, not really, but as I've said, the inclusion of rituals, prayers etc. as well as more of an online community is helpful. That as well as the fact that if I can leave here, it's probable I could find a community as I mentioned there are Temples. Half the loneliness comes from not having anything that belongs to you. All the prayers are written for another group of people and this gives you a sort of mental exclusion as well as a physical one. That as well as Noachide groups even online are few. There's a Kemetic UK forum, for instance - Noachides have nothing like even that. It's also easier to feel closer to God when you can actually participate in rituals and offerings, instead of having to just watch someone else do it.

As I've said though, none of the religious paradigms that offer a community are open to me because Jesus. Or I just can't accept them. I can only do so much mentally and intellectually. I need a monotheistic paradigm with a personal God that's not Abrahamic, especially as it can't include Jesus.
 
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Gargovic Malkav

Well-Known Member
Nope, not really, but as I've said, the inclusion of rituals, prayers etc. as well as more of an online community is helpful. That as well as the fact that if I can leave here, it's probable I could find a community as I mentioned there are Temples. Half the loneliness comes from not having anything that belongs to you. All the prayers are written for another group of people and this gives you a sort of mental exclusion as well as a physical one. That as well as Noachide groups even online are few. There's a Kemetic UK forum, for instance - Noachides have nothing like even that. It's also easier to feel closer to God when you can actually participate in rituals and offerings, instead of having to just watch someone else do it.

As I've said though, none of the religious paradigms that offer a community are open to me because Jesus. Or I just can't accept them. I can only do so much mentally and intellectually. I need a monotheistic paradigm with a personal God that's not Abrahamic, especially as it can't include Jesus.

Are you planning to stick to this religion?
Or does this one serve as a kind of placeholder until you're in a better position to convert to Judaism?
 
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