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A religious practice question

SigurdReginson

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
The first time I stepped into a pentacostal church, there was a lady laying on the ground in the sanctuary weeping bitterly. I was a 11 or 12 at the time, and I thought she had been hurt, so I said loudly, "Is she ok? We should call an ambulance!" And someone quickly and quietly ushered me to the side and told me she was filled with the holy spirit. He didn't really say much more than that, but just kind of gave me that look of "don't ask questions, just accept it."

I remember another time when I went to a friend of mine's service... My friend didn't think to inform me that I should wear a suit and tie since every single person there would be dressing up in their Sunday best, and I'd stick out like a sore thumb if I dressed casually. Where I was from, no one wore suits to church... So what proceeded was that 12 different people began to encircle me and pray over me hat I'd be saved. They spoke in tongues and everything. Keep in mind, I was already very christian at this point in my life. :confused:

Pentacostal churches are where I learned all about the gifts of the spirit and such. I also learned that demons are in all kinds of mundane things, like Magic the Gathering playing cards. Pentacostal folks tend to be a very fearful bunch.

Yah... Come to think of it, all my experiences with pentacostal churches were that they were all very emotional. A good half of the service was devoted to whipping everyone into a heightened emotional state through worship, and then for the pastor to give a very rousing and flamboyant sermon.

I wonder what kind of chemicals are released in the brain in those kind of church services. I've heard some of my pentacostal friends talk about going through "withdrawals" when they are unable to go to church... I sometimes wonder if they'd formed some kind of addiction to the dopamine rush that a good church service can bring. Hell, I've experienced it myself during altar calls, and I thought that I was being filled with the holy spirit.

That's got to be hell to endure for someone who is autistic... Those service were by far the loudest I'd ever been to. It would be a sensory overload for sure.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
RayofLight said:
So a long time ago maybe a year or two ago I attended a Pentecostal Church with my foster parent. This was a regular occurrence...in order for me to attend due to my autism I would bring these big headphones. It would be too loud otherwise and I wouldn't know whats going on plus I would be in pain without them. I forgot them one day. So I stood in the back behind these glass doors. Past the glass doors is where the church pews and service was held. I could hear what was going on altho due to how loud it was and such I had issues processing it. I watch them do this weird thing I didn't understand and hadn't seen before. A person would go up to the pastor the pastor would put their hands on said person say something and the person would fall down. I asked someone about it and they said they were sacrificed. Either that or they said sanctified and my issues with auditory processing got to me. The latter was more likely but with my questions about what she meant regarding sacrificed she decided to not clarify and got mad.Later I did research think it was a practice called slain in the spirit? Anyway since I didn't know what was going on I decided to go find my foster parent and ask her about it. I regretted it almost immediately. I was flapping my hands using vocal stimming trying to ignore the pain of all the sounds looking for my foster parent. The pastor saw me and gestured for me to come forth. I did said I was looking for my foster parent. She said something I didn't understand gestured for me to come closer. She said a bunch of words anointed my head, lead me back and placed her hand on my forehead. I had to resist the urge to scream cuz I was already over stimulated I did not need someone touching me. I caught 4 words only with what she said. Autism. Struggle. Holy Ghost. I was so confused as to what was going on. After that was over I had a meltdown. Too much stimulation. My question is this: what happened? Was this a faith healing? Or like what my friend maybe said sanctifaction/a sacrifice? Something else? And if why would they do whatever it was without asking me and making sure I knew what was going on? It was just so confusing and Ive asked people from the church about it afterwards but they didn't give any answers.
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So good that you are asking questions.

Unfortunately and many times, good intentions bring a lot of stress like you experienced. I am sure the foster parents did it out of love, but I certainly think it could have been handled better.

What does amaze me is how cogent you are in your capacity to express thought through writing. GREAT job! :)

"Falling out" or "slain in the spirit" as some call it, is simply what happens to some people when the presence of God is overshadowing them to such a degree that the natural human body cannot stand before that presence or anointing.

Examples:

When the soldiers came to take Jesus: John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

The Apostle John when he came into God's presence: Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

There are other moments when those things happen.

Faith healing is a different subject although healings can also happen at this moment. However, "falling out or slain in the spirit" is not a requirement for faith healing. Many people were healed in the Bible without having been "slain in the spirit".

There are many types of pentecostal churches... :) not all of them are as loud as what you experienced.

Did that help?

Do you have any more questions?
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
RayofLight said:
I developed one. What kinds of Pentecostal churches are there?
Click to expand...
:)

Some are what is called "strict pentecostals" where women are not allowed to wear makeup and men dress in suits. They will tend to be louder in their expressions of pentecostalism.

On the other end of the spectrum you have "come as you are" - no suits, makeup and everyone is welcome. Their expressions of pentecostalism is more controlled. You still have the gifts of the spirit in operation but, as I would put it, it takes the scariness out of a God moment.

And then everything in between.
 
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Psalm23

Psalm23

Well-Known Member
RayofLight said:
So a long time ago maybe a year or two ago I attended a Pentecostal Church with my foster parent. This was a regular occurrence...in order for me to attend due to my autism I would bring these big headphones. It would be too loud otherwise and I wouldn't know whats going on plus I would be in pain without them. I forgot them one day. So I stood in the back behind these glass doors. Past the glass doors is where the church pews and service was held. I could hear what was going on altho due to how loud it was and such I had issues processing it. I watch them do this weird thing I didn't understand and hadn't seen before. A person would go up to the pastor the pastor would put their hands on said person say something and the person would fall down. I asked someone about it and they said they were sacrificed. Either that or they said sanctified and my issues with auditory processing got to me. The latter was more likely but with my questions about what she meant regarding sacrificed she decided to not clarify and got mad.Later I did research think it was a practice called slain in the spirit? Anyway since I didn't know what was going on I decided to go find my foster parent and ask her about it. I regretted it almost immediately. I was flapping my hands using vocal stimming trying to ignore the pain of all the sounds looking for my foster parent. The pastor saw me and gestured for me to come forth. I did said I was looking for my foster parent. She said something I didn't understand gestured for me to come closer. She said a bunch of words anointed my head, lead me back and placed her hand on my forehead. I had to resist the urge to scream cuz I was already over stimulated I did not need someone touching me. I caught 4 words only with what she said. Autism. Struggle. Holy Ghost. I was so confused as to what was going on. After that was over I had a meltdown. Too much stimulation. My question is this: what happened? Was this a faith healing? Or like what my friend maybe said sanctifaction/a sacrifice? Something else? And if why would they do whatever it was without asking me and making sure I knew what was going on? It was just so confusing and Ive asked people from the church about it afterwards but they didn't give any answers.
Click to expand...


Sounds like they had word of faith beliefs. That is where you claim healing or believe people can be healed with enough faith. Someone should have asked for your permission first. I would probably feel uncomfortable in that situation too.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
KenS said:
Examples:

When the soldiers came to take Jesus: John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

The Apostle John when he came into God's presence: Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

There are other moments when those things happen.
Click to expand...
Uhm. No Ken. Of course not.
(John 18:6-8) 6 However, when Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 So he asked them again: “Whom are you looking for?” They said: “Jesus the Nazareneʹ.” 8 Jesus answered: “I told you that I am he. So if you are looking for me, let these men go.”

The men were "scared to death". They were so scared they fell when they tried to keep a distance between them and the man who showed no fear of their swords, and calmly said, 'I am he.'
Some probably wet their undergarments. Lol

As for John...
(Revelation 1:17) When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last,

John fainted in fear at the sight.
No Ken. No. Absolutely not.
You do come up with some ideas though. Where do you draw them from?
 
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Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
RayofLight said:
So a long time ago maybe a year or two ago I attended a Pentecostal Church with my foster parent. This was a regular occurrence...in order for me to attend due to my autism I would bring these big headphones. It would be too loud otherwise and I wouldn't know whats going on plus I would be in pain without them. I forgot them one day. So I stood in the back behind these glass doors. Past the glass doors is where the church pews and service was held. I could hear what was going on altho due to how loud it was and such I had issues processing it. I watch them do this weird thing I didn't understand and hadn't seen before. A person would go up to the pastor the pastor would put their hands on said person say something and the person would fall down. I asked someone about it and they said they were sacrificed. Either that or they said sanctified and my issues with auditory processing got to me. The latter was more likely but with my questions about what she meant regarding sacrificed she decided to not clarify and got mad.Later I did research think it was a practice called slain in the spirit? Anyway since I didn't know what was going on I decided to go find my foster parent and ask her about it. I regretted it almost immediately. I was flapping my hands using vocal stimming trying to ignore the pain of all the sounds looking for my foster parent. The pastor saw me and gestured for me to come forth. I did said I was looking for my foster parent. She said something I didn't understand gestured for me to come closer. She said a bunch of words anointed my head, lead me back and placed her hand on my forehead. I had to resist the urge to scream cuz I was already over stimulated I did not need someone touching me. I caught 4 words only with what she said. Autism. Struggle. Holy Ghost. I was so confused as to what was going on. After that was over I had a meltdown. Too much stimulation. My question is this: what happened? Was this a faith healing? Or like what my friend maybe said sanctifaction/a sacrifice? Something else? And if why would they do whatever it was without asking me and making sure I knew what was going on? It was just so confusing and Ive asked people from the church about it afterwards but they didn't give any answers.
Click to expand...

I'm so sorry my friend. :purpleheart:
 
VoidCat

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Left Coast said:
Kudos to you for moving beyond it. Others could easily be traumatized by it.
Click to expand...
I have a lot of trauma from my aunt who I grew up with trying to make me act neurotypical...that incident was very mild compared to some things I've experienced. Nothing in that memory really registers for me as traumatic.
 
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InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
RayofLight said:
So a long time ago maybe a year or two ago I attended a Pentecostal Church with my foster parent. This was a regular occurrence...in order for me to attend due to my autism I would bring these big headphones. It would be too loud otherwise and I wouldn't know whats going on plus I would be in pain without them. I forgot them one day. So I stood in the back behind these glass doors. Past the glass doors is where the church pews and service was held. I could hear what was going on altho due to how loud it was and such I had issues processing it. I watch them do this weird thing I didn't understand and hadn't seen before. A person would go up to the pastor the pastor would put their hands on said person say something and the person would fall down. I asked someone about it and they said they were sacrificed. Either that or they said sanctified and my issues with auditory processing got to me. The latter was more likely but with my questions about what she meant regarding sacrificed she decided to not clarify and got mad.Later I did research think it was a practice called slain in the spirit? Anyway since I didn't know what was going on I decided to go find my foster parent and ask her about it. I regretted it almost immediately. I was flapping my hands using vocal stimming trying to ignore the pain of all the sounds looking for my foster parent. The pastor saw me and gestured for me to come forth. I did said I was looking for my foster parent. She said something I didn't understand gestured for me to come closer. She said a bunch of words anointed my head, lead me back and placed her hand on my forehead. I had to resist the urge to scream cuz I was already over stimulated I did not need someone touching me. I caught 4 words only with what she said. Autism. Struggle. Holy Ghost. I was so confused as to what was going on. After that was over I had a meltdown. Too much stimulation. My question is this: what happened? Was this a faith healing? Or like what my friend maybe said sanctifaction/a sacrifice? Something else? And if why would they do whatever it was without asking me and making sure I knew what was going on? It was just so confusing and Ive asked people from the church about it afterwards but they didn't give any answers.
Click to expand...
Pentecostal groups practice a lot of unbiblical things and “slaying people in the spirit “ is one of them. In the Bible the only people who were ever slain by the Spirit, were killed for lying to God. What goes on in Pentecostal churches is creepy and fake, possibly in some cases even demonic activity.
I’m sorry you had such an uncomfortable experience, but I would consider those feelings of discomfort as important warnings to avoid Pentecostal churches, if possible. At least certainly be on guard and don’t be deceived or taken in by their practices which are contrary to the Bible and outside of God’s will.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
RayofLight said:
So a long time ago maybe a year or two ago I attended a Pentecostal Church with my foster parent. This was a regular occurrence...in order for me to attend due to my autism I would bring these big headphones. It would be too loud otherwise and I wouldn't know whats going on plus I would be in pain without them. I forgot them one day. So I stood in the back behind these glass doors. Past the glass doors is where the church pews and service was held. I could hear what was going on altho due to how loud it was and such I had issues processing it. I watch them do this weird thing I didn't understand and hadn't seen before. A person would go up to the pastor the pastor would put their hands on said person say something and the person would fall down. I asked someone about it and they said they were sacrificed. Either that or they said sanctified and my issues with auditory processing got to me. The latter was more likely but with my questions about what she meant regarding sacrificed she decided to not clarify and got mad.Later I did research think it was a practice called slain in the spirit? Anyway since I didn't know what was going on I decided to go find my foster parent and ask her about it. I regretted it almost immediately. I was flapping my hands using vocal stimming trying to ignore the pain of all the sounds looking for my foster parent. The pastor saw me and gestured for me to come forth. I did said I was looking for my foster parent. She said something I didn't understand gestured for me to come closer. She said a bunch of words anointed my head, lead me back and placed her hand on my forehead. I had to resist the urge to scream cuz I was already over stimulated I did not need someone touching me. I caught 4 words only with what she said. Autism. Struggle. Holy Ghost. I was so confused as to what was going on. After that was over I had a meltdown. Too much stimulation. My question is this: what happened? Was this a faith healing? Or like what my friend maybe said sanctifaction/a sacrifice? Something else? And if why would they do whatever it was without asking me and making sure I knew what was going on? It was just so confusing and Ive asked people from the church about it afterwards but they didn't give any answers.
Click to expand...

What an amazing post was that? You opened a whole new world for me mate.

Sorry I dont have much to say but thanks for this post.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
nPeace said:
Uhm. No Ken. Of course not.
(John 18:6-8) 6 However, when Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 So he asked them again: “Whom are you looking for?” They said: “Jesus the Nazareneʹ.” 8 Jesus answered: “I told you that I am he. So if you are looking for me, let these men go.”

The men were "scared to death". They were so scared they fell when they tried to keep a distance between them and the man who showed no fear of their swords, and calmly said, 'I am he.'
Some probably wet their undergarments. Lol

As for John...
(Revelation 1:17) When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last,

John fainted in fear at the sight.
No Ken. No. Absolutely not.
You do come up with some ideas though. Where do you draw them from?
Click to expand...
No...had nothing to do with being scared and then falling down. Jesus didn't have a sword or a stick. But that was very creative. ;)
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
InChrist said:
Pentecostal groups practice a lot of unbiblical things and “slaying people in the spirit “ is one of them. In the Bible the only people who were ever slain by the Spirit, were killed for lying to God. What goes on in Pentecostal churches is creepy and fake, possibly in some cases even demonic activity.
I’m sorry you had such an uncomfortable experience, but I would consider those feelings of discomfort as important warnings to avoid Pentecostal churches, if possible. At least certainly be on guard and don’t be deceived or taken in by their practices which are contrary to the Bible and outside of God’s will.
Click to expand...
I'm sure they are saying the same thing about your churches.

No... and they certainly aren't creepy or fake. They worship God with all of their hearts.(I've been in some of their services in Honduras)

If there are any demoniac activity, it would be people being delivered.:)
 
Gargovic Malkav

Gargovic Malkav

Well-Known Member
RayofLight said:
It would completely change who I am including a lots of good things. Like for instance...a study I read once showed autistics to have a higher morality. If you take away my autism I might not be as moral. Also autistics when we are interested in something we are really interested. I could spend hours just researching paganism and witchcraft. Would that be the same if I wasn't autistic? Not to meantion I am not as bound by social pressure. It seems o me sometimes neurotypicals care too much about what others think but I could care less what others think cuz I am not motivated by social pressure. And I would miss stimming as well.Also I view things so differently noticing things others wouldn't. Not to meantion lots of autistics have a surplus of compassionate and affective empathy. I would lose who I am. So much would be lost.
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That autistic people have a higher morality and have more empathy is an inaccurate generalization imo.
I think some people see it that way because autistics tend to be very straightforward and honest and often have a lot of respect for the rules(though they may have "their own" rules).

But I've also seen with my own eyes that autistic people(including myself) are capable of lying and manipulating whenever their ego is at stake or because of peer pressure.
In my experience I would say autistic people can be compassionate, but I've also seen some who were very selfish.
Some came across as very narcissistic; always talking about themselves, looking for compliments and enjoyed belittling others or gossip so that they feel they are in control and maintain a sense of superiority.
I've also known one who was very duplicitous and a kleptomaniac.
 
VoidCat

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Gargovic Malkav said:
That autistic people have a higher morality and have more empathy is an inaccurate generalization imo.
Click to expand...
Google Scholar
ASD participants and healthy control subjects (HCs) decided in public or private whether to incur a personal cost for funding a morally good cause (Good Context) or receive a personal gain for benefiting a morally bad cause (Bad Context). Compared with HC, individuals with ASD were much more likely to reject the opportunity to earn ill gotten money by supporting a bad cause than were HCs. Computational modeling revealed that this resulted from heavily weighing benefits for themselves and the bad cause, suggesting that ASD participants apply a rule of refusing to serve a bad cause because they evaluate the negative consequences of their actions more severely.
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HC stands for healthy control and ASD stands for autism spectrum disorder

As for empathy the problem is the instruments used in studies not taking into account how autistics view the world: Unwarranted Conclusions and the Potential for Harm: My Reply to Simon Baron-Cohen
The process of combining a critique of the test instruments with a consciousness of the limitations of quantitative methods holds great potential for finding bias that can skew the test results. To provide a brief example: A preliminary review of the questions on the EQ test reveals some basic social assumptions. All of the hypothetical situations described in the questions assume a group of non-autistic people, and all of the questions expect that everyone should be able to impute mental states by looking at the nonverbal cues of non-autistic people. When it comes to measuring empathy, this assumption is significantly troubling for two reasons: 1) It fails to address the issue of what happens to autistic and otherwise disabled people in “normal” social settings, and 2) it assumes that autistic people should be able to read the mental states of non-autistic people, but makes no such assumption in the other direction. These two aspects of the test questions have the potential to bias the results in the direction of concluding that able-bodied people have empathy simply because they understand other able-bodied people, leaving out the possibility that they may do very poorly understanding the mental states and experiences of disabled people.

The first statement on the EQ provides an example of this bias in favor of the able-bodied majority. The statement reads: “I can easily tell if someone else wants to enter a conversation.” Who exactly is “someone”? Disabled people often find themselves wanting to enter a conversation in a social setting, only to have able-bodied people exclude them and render them socially invisible (Murphy 1990). And yet, many able-bodied people would very likely answer “Strongly agree” to this question because, in most instances, such people actually do notice other people sufficiently to read their signals. Thus, all the response indicates is that people in the majority are attentive to other people in the majority; the pre-determined question fails to address a complex and pervasive social bias against disabled people that is based on anything but empathy. Moreover, like so many of the questions on the EQ, this question assumes that a failure of an autistic person to properly deduce the mental state of a non-autistic person is evidence of a lack of empathy, but it does not make the opposite assumption: that a failure of a non-autistic person to properly deduce the mental state of an autistic person is also evidence of a lack of empathy. And yet, it is a truth hidden in plain sight that most non-autistic people are unable to intuitively read the nonverbal language of autistics and deduce their mental states. If they could, there would be no need for over 25 years of research into how autistic people work.
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Really recommend reading the whole article. It's great. It points out more problems too. Until there is research that actually take into account how autistics function I cannot believe autistics lack empathy. There are numerous accounts online of autistics feeling empathy. I wholeheartly believe because of my autism I feel empathy more strongly. I could be wrong but until there is a study that takes into account problems with previous studies my mind will not change due to the accounts I've read from other autistics
 
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Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Village shamans and hodjas also do it.
145733250-22-mar-2020-theyyam-performer-blessing-to-people-theyyam-teyyam-theyam-theyyattam-ritual-form-of-wor.jpg

More on Theyyam dancers: Theyyam dancers - Google Search
 
Gargovic Malkav

Gargovic Malkav

Well-Known Member
RayofLight said:
I wholeheartly believe because of my autism I feel empathy more strongly.
Click to expand...

The belief that you can feel such things more deeply or authentically than others may actually be a sign of the opposite.

Though it doesn't necessarily mean you're incapable of feeling empathy.
It may even be that it is your "auti-power" to have a gift for such things, but I can't judge about that because I don't know you well enough.

And even if I would have anything to say about it, it would be an amateur's opinion, as I don't have had any official schooling or credentials to officially prove I know what I'm talking about.

RayofLight said:
Really recommend reading the whole article. It's great. It points out more problems too. Until there is research that actually take into account how autistics function I cannot believe autistics lack empathy.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

RayofLight said:
There are numerous accounts online of autistics feeling empathy.
Click to expand...

I've known a lot of autistic people, some of them I know pretty well because they are my friends and (former) neighbours/housemates.
Some of them like to believe they are empathic, while I saw in practice they were completely oblivious of other people's feelings or levels of understanding.

There were a few exceptions though.
 
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