Does salvation in Christ scare the Atheist believers?

9-10ths_Penguin · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
I think Atheist for the most part have made the choice to "be their own God". Simply put, join the ultimate rebel against God, because of wanting "their own freedom", to do whatever they want.

I think when some do realize how pointless that life is, they seek God, but because of the fact that religion has failed society, some of those individuals resign themselves to Atheism or Agnosticism.

However, some find a religion they feel they can bond with.
When that fails them, they just decide to be non-religious, but "spiritual".

I think though, you are referring to die hard Atheist. These as I said earlier, for the most part hate God, and his authority. They want their own rules.
Salvation of Christ don't appeal to them because it does not come with freedom from authority... at least individual authority.

Sounds like you're so deeply stuck in your own worldview that you can't even imagine things from other perspectives.

Is atheism really so alien to you that you can't even relate to it without turning it into a weird sort of theism?

Orbit · Apr 1, 2021

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God(s). It's not rebellion--how can you rebel against something that you don't think exists? I looked into it, and found no evidence that gods exist. That's all there is. There's no agenda, no grand design, no anti-theism, no fear.

nPeace · Apr 1, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Sounds like you're so deeply stuck in your own worldview that you can't even imagine things from other perspectives.

Is atheism really so alien to you that you can't even relate to it without turning it into a weird sort of theism?

I'm speaking from experience. What are you speaking from?

nPeace · Apr 1, 2021

Orbit said:
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God(s). It's not rebellion--how can you rebel against something that you don't think exists? I looked into it, and found no evidence that gods exist. That's all there is. There's no agenda, no grand design, no anti-theism, no fear.

Are you speaking for all Atheists?

9-10ths_Penguin · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
I'm speaking from experience. What are you speaking from?

I'm speaking from the perspective of someone watching you try to describe my thought processes and getting it utterly, completely wrong.

nPeace · Apr 1, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I'm speaking from the perspective of someone watching you try to describe my thought processes and getting it utterly, completely wrong.

Oh. I did not realize you were all Atheists.
I'll try to remember not to mention you all in future.

Orbit · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
Are you speaking for all Atheists?

All atheists have in common the lack of a belief in God. I think it's clear from context that the second part of my post is my experience.

nPeace · Apr 1, 2021

Orbit said:
All atheists have in common the lack of a belief in God. I think it's clear from context that the second part of my post is my experience.

So no person became an Atheist through rebellion, in you view. If an Atheist told you differently, what would you call him?

Orbit · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
So no person became an Atheist through rebellion, in you view. If an Atheist told you differently, what would you call him?

Did you read what I posted? One more time, for comprehension: ALL atheists share the lack of a belief in gods. The second part of the post was my personal experience. An atheist can be an anti-theist, or not an anti-theist. An atheist can be a Pagan or a Hindu. Atheists can be all kinds of things. They are individual people with individual experiences.

Shadow Wolf · Apr 1, 2021

SA Huguenot said:
I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

4. Atheism has moral values.

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief? I think there is only one reason, they want to gain fellow Atheists.

It is not the he exact same as being a disciple for Atheism.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

It's stuff like that that is well known for driving people to atheism.

9-10ths_Penguin · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
Oh. I did not realize you were all Atheists.
I'll try to remember not to mention you all in future.

My mistake: when you said "atheists for the most part," I thought you were trying to describe atheists for the most part.

nPeace · Apr 1, 2021

Orbit said:
Did you read what I posted? One more time, for comprehension: ALL atheists share the lack of a belief in gods. The second part of the post was my personal experience. An atheist can be an anti-theist, or not an anti-theist. An atheist can be a Pagan or a Hindu. Atheists can be all kinds of things. They are individual people with individual experiences.

Of course I read what you posted, and I understand it very well, which is the reason I responded to it.

Let me relay it back to you.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God(s). It's not rebellion--how can you rebel against something that you don't think exists? I looked into it, and found no evidence that gods exist. That's all there is. There's no agenda, no grand design, no anti-theism, no fear.

I'll simplify it.
Atheism is not rebellion - How can you rebel against something that you don't think exist.
There's no agenda, no grand design, no anti-theism, no fear.

Now let's link it.
After all, it's not there for no reason.
Is it linked to the OP? Then i apologize for thinking it was linked to what I said, because the OP did not use rebellion or rebel. I did.
I think Atheist for the most part have made the choice to "be their own God". Simply put, join the ultimate rebel against God, because of wanting "their own freedom", to do whatever they want.

So I made that link.
Thus I am saying that Atheism for the most part - that is, persons who become Atheists choose that course, for the most part, because of rebellion.

You are trying to say, that an Atheist is not rebellious to anything he or she does not believe even exists.

That certainly could be true, if the Atheist, never even considered, believed in, nor had any exposure to an idea that there is a God who expects obedience from us.

On the other hand, your statement simply would be false. since the Atheist, because he has declared himself to be one, does not excuse him, or make void the fact that he chose Atheism because he felt it was the better choice for him.

Neither of us can speak for all Atheists, because we don't know why a person is an Atheist, and being one is not a "get out of jail free" card - meaning that it does not mean one can use the definition as a crutch to free them from responsibility for their choice.

That's a mouthful, but I hope you understand what I am saying.
I think they... for the most part... use it in that way. "Well I don't see any evidence, so there is really no reason to believe."
Really?

nPeace · Apr 1, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
My mistake: when you said "atheists for the most part," I thought you were trying to describe atheists for the most part.

Why do you choose to be 'Atheists for the most part', so that you can speak for 'Atheist, for the most part', and yet don't want to consider yourself 'Atheists for the most part'?

Orbit · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
Of course I read what you posted, and I understand it very well, which is the reason I responded to it.

Let me relay it back to you.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God(s). It's not rebellion--how can you rebel against something that you don't think exists? I looked into it, and found no evidence that gods exist. That's all there is. There's no agenda, no grand design, no anti-theism, no fear.

I'll simplify it.
Atheism is not rebellion - How can you rebel against something that you don't think exist.
There's no agenda, no grand design, no anti-theism, no fear.

Now let's link it.
After all, it's not there for no reason.
Is it linked to the OP? Then i apologize for thinking it was linked to what I said, because the OP did not use rebellion or rebel. I did.
I think Atheist for the most part have made the choice to "be their own God". Simply put, join the ultimate rebel against God, because of wanting "their own freedom", to do whatever they want.

So I made that link.
Thus I am saying that Atheism for the most part - that is, persons who become Atheists choose that course, for the most part, because of rebellion.

You are trying to say, that an Atheist is not rebellious to anything he or she does not believe even exists.

That certainly could be true, if the Atheist, never even considered, believed in, nor had any exposure to an idea that there is a God who expects obedience from us.

On the other hand, your statement simply would be false. since the Atheist, because he has declared himself to be one, does not excuse him, or make void the fact that he chose Atheism because he felt it was the better choice for him.

Neither of us can speak for all Atheists, because we don't know why a person is an Atheist, and being one is not a "get out of jail free" card - meaning that it does not mean one can use the definition as a crutch to free them from responsibility for their choice.

That's a mouthful, but I hope you understand what I am saying.
I think they... for the most part... use it in that way. "Well I don't see any evidence, so there is really no reason to believe."
Really?

How many atheists do you know personally? How did you arrive at this "rebellion" conclusion?

nPeace · Apr 1, 2021

Orbit said:
How many atheists do you know personally? How did you arrive at this "rebellion" conclusion?

I spoke to many, and many people tend to be honest when they are speaking with persons they tend to respect because they find them respectful.
Also, I can put many whom I have not spoken to in that same bracket, because patterns are a dime a dozen, and especially in a changing world, where one tends to see trends that follow certain "laws", the obvious is undeniable.

9-10ths_Penguin · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
Why do you choose to be 'Atheists for the most part', so that you can speak for 'Atheist, for the most part', and yet don't want to consider yourself 'Atheists for the most part'?

This is a very strange way to try to deny that you were making generalizations.

You realize that everyone can go back a few posts and see for themselves what you wrote, right?

Orbit · Apr 1, 2021

nPeace said:
I spoke to many, and many people tend to be honest when they are speaking with persons they tend to respect because they find them respectful.
Also, I can put many whom I have not spoken to in that same bracket, because patterns are a dime a dozen, and especially in a changing world, where one tends to see trends that follow certain "laws", the obvious is undeniable.

"The obvious" is just your unsupported opinion. You can't imagine why anyone would be an atheist, and rebellion's the only explanation that makes sense to you. There are plenty of atheists on RF. Why not test your theory by starting a thread asking them why they are atheist. I bet you money no one is going to say "I'm rebelling against God." But try it and see what answers you get.

TagliatelliMonster · Apr 1, 2021

SA Huguenot said:
Does salvation in Christ scare the Atheist believers?

About as much as it scares me that santa won't be bringing me presents coming christimass.

I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

Correct.

4. Atheism has moral values.

Not correct and I don't remember any atheist on this forum saying otherwise.
Atheism does not come with morals. Atheism is not a doctrine nor an ideology nor a moral framework.
It is JUST the concept of not believing a specific set of claims. That's it.

At best, the only thing you can know about the moral framework of an atheist, is that it will not include an appeal to a perceived supernatural authority

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

Atheists have committed many attrocities.
The difference is that atheism doesn't motivate them. Because atheism isn't an ideology or doctrine that comes with instructions on how to behave or what to do or not do.
Religion does.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

I can only call this conclusions of your to be seriously delusional.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief?

I don't actually do that. I simply discuss empty and unsupported claims, no matter where they come from.
I don't particularly care what label people slap on their forehead.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Because this is a religious forum where religious beliefs are being discussed.
Sounds like you are complaining that atheists are engaging in the discussion and sharing their opinions concerning said beliefs.

If such are my opinions and I engage in discussion about those subjects on religiousforums.com, why on earth wouldn't I share those opinions?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

The only foolish thing here, is the nonsense you spew about science.

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

Please demonstrate how the opposite is true.
Stay clear of strawmen also please.

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds!

Only in your opinion. Those people who did those things in the name of god, were reading the same bible you were and were aware of the NT just like you were.

However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths!

It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Communism is not an instance of atheism.
Atheism is just a disbelief of specific things.
It's not an ideology, not a doctrine and it doesn't come with a moral framework.

Whatever ideology, doctrine, moral framework an atheist follows, is independent from his atheism.

The problem in soviet russia was communism.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

As an atheist, I can only laugh at this.

Being an atheist isn't that hard to comprehend. After all, you are an atheist in context of 99.99% of religions out there. You know how it is not to believe in a god, because you don't believe in Allah, Thor, Visjnoe, Shiva,....

So are you an atheist with respect to those gods because whalhalla scares you?

TagliatelliMonster · Apr 1, 2021

SA Huguenot said:
But, what do you think is the reason for them to attack the Gospel, and the believers of Jesus.
It is as if they get highly offended when they hear a Christian saying they believe in God, a Creator.
Is it to find more adherends?

Have you considered the option that this is not actually the case and that the actual problem is that you have a victim complex?

TagliatelliMonster · Apr 1, 2021

SA Huguenot said:
Then why vehemently try to prove that point?
Go through many threads and see how atheists(some, not all of them, but most) tries to discredit the Bible, Jesus and the Christian.
And all I asked is why they do that?
Are they doing it to find more proselytes?
Or is it fear?
All I did was to ask the Question.

Do you understand that the very puprose of this forum is to discuss religious beliefs that people hold?

It doesn't sound like you do.
It seems you find it surprising that on a forum meant for debating religious beliefs, people are actually debating religious beliefs.

Does salvation in Christ scare the Atheist believers?

1/10 Subway Stalinist

I'm a planet

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

1/10 Subway Stalinist

Veteran Member

I'm a planet

Veteran Member

I'm a planet

Certified People sTabber

1/10 Subway Stalinist

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

I'm a planet

Veteran Member

1/10 Subway Stalinist

I'm a planet

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member