Does salvation in Christ scare the Atheist believers?

I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

4. Atheism has moral values.

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief? I think there is only one reason, they want to gain fellow Atheists.

It is not the he exact same as being a disciple for Atheism.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

SA Huguenot said:

Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

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No. I find that most think there is no evidence for a God or gods from any religion, not just Christianity; so I see no reason they would single out the Gospel.

SA Huguenot said:

they want to gain fellow Atheists

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I only heard one Atheist say this on RF; probably he or she did get some extra likes for it, though

SA Huguenot said:

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

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No. Not foolish. And no need to belittle others who also search for truth.

SA Huguenot said:

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

Click to expand...

Many Atheists come from families who used to be (or are) Christians. Naturally one goes against them to set oneself free, and think for oneself.

SA Huguenot said:

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

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I am not a Christian, and I am not scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ, so I don't expect Atheists will be scared of it.

SA Huguenot said:

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

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That is a good point. The moment you put something in words, it exists, even if its only in the mind. Knowing that the mind is powerful, I don't dismiss such

stvdv said:

No. Not foolish. And no need to belittle others who also search for truth.

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Noted, but I did not belittle anyone in this statement, I asked if it is not foolish to look for a Creator in the created?
Do you understand that the Creator is not in the creation.
The architec is not in the walls of the building.
Hendry is not in the engine of the Ford car.
I think it is foolish to go to your car to find the designer of that car there, dont you.
Anyhow, If this is a belittling statement, I do apologise that perhaps it is not so foolish to expect God to be seen in the matter He created.
Sorry!

SA Huguenot said:

I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

4. Atheism has moral values.

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief? I think there is only one reason, they want to gain fellow Atheists.

It is not the he exact same as being a disciple for Atheism.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

Click to expand...

Theism and atheism are not religions. They are just terms used to say whether someone believes in a god or not.

Religion is the systematic practice of faith which is manifest through ritual and ceremonies. What rituals and ceremonies does one have to partake in to be an atheist?

The fourth point is incorrect because atheism says nothing about morality. What moral or ethical system does an atheist have to adhere to?

The fifth point is wrong as well. Neither theism nor atheism cause atrocities to happen. There has to be an extra set of religious or ideological beliefs that the person holds that leads to that.

I don't know why you are speaking just about the Bible here. Atheists also speak out about other faiths such as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and numerous dangerous cults.

Your point that atheist speak out against religion therefore it is a religion makes no sense:

Does a person who speaks out against government have to be a part of a government?
Does a person need to be part of a secret society to speak out against a secret society?
Does someone who speaks out against a terrorist group have top be a terrorist themselves?

One doesn't have to be in the category of something to speak out against it. Atheists speak out against religion for various reasons even. A lot of atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't speak about it.

SA Huguenot said:

Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco?

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Who does this? 3 of those are dangerous cults and the second one is more complicated. Are you conflating Theism with Christianity as per that other thread?

SA Huguenot said:

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Click to expand...

So the concept of God made people explore nature. That doesn't mean that the concept is true. Science also cannot conclude that God definitely doesn't exist but just that certain concepts of God are false.

SA Huguenot said:

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Click to expand...

Circular reasoning here. You have to prove that everything was created in the first place before saying that people are observing a created object. Atheists who claim that there definitely is no God are committing the same fallacy that theists do, by jumping to conclusions on a matter that is unexaminable. Certainly the term God is used in the scientific community when contemplating various hypothesis for how the universe began such as Stephen Hawking does in a Brief History of Time. They should rather say that they do not know.

SA Huguenot said:

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

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This is a tricky one. I think that all religions were necessary in the evolution of what society calls "morality" in that they established an order of morality that helped civilizations to stabilize and grow. This also begs the question as man has been religious for the majority of history. Religion is a natural step in man's social evolution so there wouldn't have been a time when man would have developed the moral code without religion. Judeo-Christian values certainly aren't necessary for a morality as we have had Confusionism, Jainism, Islam and many other religions that established a working morality. Humans are social creatures and all social creatures have a natural morality which makes them social in the first place and humans have genetic and psychological traits that govern certain actions that humans call moral and others that are provided through reason. But because of tribalism morality develops differently and this causes conflict.

SA Huguenot said:

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

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you focus ion communism. What about Secular Humanism? You are also ignoring atheists who fight for peoples rights and would be against the atrocities of the USSR? Why are you cherry picking here?

SA Huguenot said:

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

Click to expand...

Why are you so focused on Christianity here? Atheists also speak out against Islam and Hinduism and cults. In fact many atheists who are against Islam say that Christianity is OK and that we can live with it but that Islam is the main problem at its core. Also most of the atheist I have heard of who are against Christiainty are the ones in America where there are a lot of ignorant Christians who are bigots who want to take over government. In the Middle East most atheists are against Islam. In Russia, which was Russian Orthodox under the Tzar, atheists were against Christianity because it was the main religion. In India they are against Hinduism. It seems to be more about what religion is dominant in which region rather than attacking Christianity all over the world.

And again atheism is not a religion.

stvdv said:

I am not a Christian, and I am not scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ, so I don't expect Atheists will be scared of it.

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But, what do you think is the reason for them to attack the Gospel, and the believers of Jesus.
It is as if they get highly offended when they hear a Christian saying they believe in God, a Creator.
Is it to find more adherends?

SA Huguenot said:

Noted, but I did not belittle anyone in this statement, I asked if it is not foolish to look for a Creator in the created?
Do you understand that the Creator is not in the creation.
The architec is not in the walls of the building.
Hendry is not in the engine of the Ford car.
I think it is foolish to go to your car to find the designer of that car there, dont you.
Anyhow, If this is a belittling statement, I do apologise that perhaps it is not so foolish to expect God to be seen in the matter He created.
Sorry!

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So thats what you meant. And your point is correct unless the creator leaves its mark or brand on the creation, like some car parts do.

But this shows that searching what exists around us, in what theists call creation, cannot lead us to proving that a creator exists.

SA Huguenot said:

But, what do you think is the reason for them to attack the Gospel, and the believers of Jesus.
It is as if they get highly offended when they hear a Christian saying they believe in God, a Creator.
Is it to find more adherends?

Click to expand...

Likely since Christianity is the largest religion; it is the largest religion, historically and culturally, in the West, while the West also has the most atheists.

SA Huguenot said:

Noted, but I did not belittle anyone in this statement, I asked if it is not foolish to look for a Creator in the created?
Do you understand that the Creator is not in the creation.
The architec is not in the walls of the building.
Hendry is not in the engine of the Ford car.
I think it is foolish to go to your car to find the designer of that car there, dont you.
Anyhow, If this is a belittling statement, I do apologise that perhaps it is not so foolish to expect God to be seen in the matter He created.
Sorry!

Click to expand...

You are mistaken, God as Creator cannot be compared to a simple car designer because God is all-knowing and omni-present.

So He is not only the Creator but also present within everything He creates, He is the Supreme Subject within which the whole universe finds shelter as his manyfold objects.

God is the infinite Dreamer of this creation, he can never be your object like a car designer can be to you.
Jesus explains this very clearly in his teachings.
So you have to think this through better.

SA Huguenot said:

Noted, but I did not belittle anyone in this statement, I asked if it is not foolish to look for a Creator in the created?
Anyhow, If this is a belittling statement, I do apologise that perhaps it is not so foolish to expect God to be seen in the matter He created.
Sorry!

Click to expand...

Thanks, and in a way you are right, you did not say "they are fools", you asked "is it not foolish?". But there is a fine line between saying:
"you are a fool"
or
"you act foolish"

Because afterall "is it not the fool who acts foolish?"
@stvdvRF

Israel Khan said:

Why are you so focused on Christianity here? Atheists also speak out against Islam and Hinduism and cults.

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Israel, thanks for your efford and time you put into this post.
You are always down to the point, with a very objective opinion, and even if I dissaggree with you on some points, you are very sollid on your point of viev when you place a post.

NS. the reason why I only refer to Christianity and Atheism as the discussion point, is because I am discussing only Christianity.
To me the Atheist have the right to critisize the Bible, and Christianity, but they should do so with facts, and not some strawman generalisation on what they think the Gospel is.
If they attempt to place the belief of Jesus' salvation on equal terms with any other religion, they are free to do so, but not when I am present, for I will demand a more detiled explanation.
To say that the Gospel of Jesus is the same as "Religion" which includes Islam, Hinduism, and all the religions of the world,
...Is exactly what I counter answer with placing Atheism and Agnostisizm in the category of "Religion"..
funny how the atheist can put the Christian Bible believers' religion into the same box as ISIS, and they demand it should be that way, but when I say Atheism needs to be placed in the same box, they are offended!

I will never in my life accuse "all religions except mine to be true, because some idiot in your religion killed someone, and mine did not"-- generalisation accusation.
If I do that, it is WRONG!
But the Atheist reserves the right to do so!
I will rather take one religion at a time, and discuss hteir dogmatic problems, and ask Queations about those points.
Greetings

SA Huguenot said:

Do you understand that the Creator is not in the creation.
The architec is not in the walls of the building.
Hendry is not in the engine of the Ford car.
I think it is foolish to go to your car to find the designer of that car there, dont you.
perhaps it is not so foolish to expect God to be seen in the matter He created.

Click to expand...

The moment we solve the riddle "which was first .. the chicken or the egg", we might know whether the Creator is in the Creation or not
@stvdvRF

SA Huguenot said:

I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

4. Atheism has moral values.

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief? I think there is only one reason, they want to gain fellow Atheists.

It is not the he exact same as being a disciple for Atheism.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, you said you used to be an atheist too right?
If so, what kind of atheist were you when you looked at religion?

Marcion said:

You are mistaken, God as Creator cannot be compared to a simple car designer because God is all-knowing and omni-present.

So He is not only the Creator but also present within everything He creates, He is the Supreme Subject within which the whole universe finds shelter as his manyfold objects.

God is the infinite Dreamer of this creation, he can never be your object like a car designer can be to you.
Jesus explains this very clearly in his teachings.
So you have to think this through better.

Click to expand...

But this is what I said is done by the Atheist, not by the Christian pal.
They want us to present the physical evidence that God exists byy looking at the Universe etc.
I say it is foolish, because you will find only the evidence that God was there, but you wont find God in it.
I used the comparrison of a designer in a car and building.

And if you believe that you can find God in the Universe as a physical being, also present in the matter around us, I can not answer to that, for I believe God to be present in the spirit as omnipresent, and not in the physical environment. His onmipresence might be present in the sun and the stars, but He is not the Sun to be worshipped

SA Huguenot said:

But, what do you think is the reason for them to attack the Gospel, and the believers of Jesus.
It is as if they get highly offended when they hear a Christian saying they believe in God, a Creator.
Is it to find more adherends?

Click to expand...

That is true, I do not attack "believers of Jesus", I know that Jesus is real

In Holland ca. 150 years ago 99.9% were Christians. In evolution a short time. Most Dutch Atheists might have more Christian 'blood' than they think

Hence also some proselytizing still running through their veins

From psychology POV to go against it, to set yourself free, is not strange. Religious people can be quite dogmatic, which is a heavy burden, and not easy to let go.

So, I am not surprised that this happens
@stvdvRF

stvdv said:

The moment we solve the riddle "which was first .. the chicken or the egg", we might know whether the Creator is in the Creation or not
@stvdvRF

Click to expand...

This is where I return to the Biblical explanation and information to understand who was first.
The Bible is very clear:
In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth!
Before God there was nothing.
There was no Heaven, and Earth before God.
Through the Word of God (Jesus) everything was made, and without Him, nothing came into existence.

Therefore, God created the Chicken, male and female He created them and said:
"Be fruitfull and multiply"

Lot of generalisation here. Atheism is a disbelief. That is all it is. What individual atheists do is up to them.

Have a look at this: Faulty generalization - Wikipedia

SA Huguenot said:

And if you believe that you can find God in the Universe as a physical being, also present in the matter around us, I can not answer to that, for I believe God to be present in the spirit as omnipresent, and not in the physical environment. His onmipresence might be present in the sun and the stars, but He is not the Sun to be worshipped

Click to expand...

If the universe is God's creation, then matter is born of the Spirit (or Cosmis Consciousness).
We don't normally see it, but the Spirit is present in every minute particle.
You should of course not worship one single object in His creation but I see no problem in considering that all is His projection, you meet God (Christ) in everything you see, hear or touch. There is nothing outside of God.

So what is the problem with atheists? They simply do not believe that the Spirit comes first and is the primal mover of everything. They are like a child that denies that its parents are its real parents.

Gargovic Malkav said:

If I recall correctly, you said you used to be an atheist too right?
If so, what kind of atheist were you when you looked at religion?

Click to expand...

I thought Christians were realy silly, and also thought of all religions as one and the same.
And, you are verry clever indeed.
You caught me out as a person who once did the very same as Atheists does now.

Dammitt!!!
All atheists, I am sorry for all the biting and growling I did on this forum.
I will rather set my mind up to discuss in a more tonned manner.