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Messiah

IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Power Stone said:
Who here believes that the messiah was the only living being who god graciously bestowed the gift upon to have power over death so we may all have everlasting life?
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Well, the Jewish messiah doesn't have these powers. This is strictly a Christian idea.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
Why didn't God make us incorruptible like he is? And don't go down the 'free will' rabbit hole. God has free will and is also incorruptible. Why didn't he make us that way too?
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Incorruptible as in a moral way I presume you mean.
This would change who and what we are as humans. If we cannot choose evil but only good then we would be more automatons than moral beings. We also would not be able to love. It would be something that is sort of programmed into us and not a choice.
God wants us to choose to worship Him and love Him.
If you mean incorruptible physically, I think the wisdom of that is seen in a world full of evil.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
Incorruptible as in a moral way I presume you mean.
This would change who and what we are as humans. If we cannot choose evil but only good then we would be more automatons than moral beings. We also would not be able to love. It would be something that is sort of programmed into us and not a choice.
God wants us to choose to worship Him and love Him.
If you mean incorruptible physically, I think the wisdom of that is seen in a world full of evil.
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And you went down the 'free will' rabbit hole anyway. Whatever. So does God have free will? Can he choose evil?
 
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
1213 said:
Please tell one example.
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Numbers 24:17:

"What I see for them is not yet, What I behold will not be soon: A star rises from Jacob, A scepter comes forth from Israel; It smashes the brow of Moab, The foundation of all children of Seth."​
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
And you went down the 'free will' rabbit hole anyway. Whatever. So does God have free will? Can he choose evil?
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God is love and it would be God acting against His own nature to choose to do evil. From our perspective it may seem at times that God is being evil however.
Wanting to be fully devoted to God and do His will is sort of the opposite of choosing our own free will, which is governed by things which are not helpful and against the will of God. We in fact are chained to things, in this life, which are against the will of God. Jesus is in the business of setting us free from those chains and so paradoxically devotion to Him is the way to true freedom as the humans that God created us to be, even though the full freedom won't be realised until the resurrection.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
God is love and it would be God acting against His own nature to choose to do evil. From our perspective it may seem at times that God is being evil however.
Wanting to be fully devoted to God and do His will is sort of the opposite of choosing our own free will, which is governed by things which are not helpful and against the will of God. We in fact are chained to things, in this life, which are against the will of God. Jesus is in the business of setting us free from those chains and so paradoxically devotion to Him is the way to true freedom as the humans that God created us to be, even though the full freedom won't be realised until the resurrection.
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If God cannot sin, he is not omnipotent.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Harel13 said:
I don't blame you for completely misunderstanding Rabbi Kanievsky. Rabbi Kanievsky is echoing a story from the Talmud in which one of the sages meets the prophet Elijah and asks him where the Mashiach is. Elijah directs him to the gates of Rome, where a band of beggars are sitting. He explains to him how to identify the Mashiach from among them. The sage then asks him: When are you coming? The Mashiach answered: Today! This excited the sage. The next day came, and nothing happened. So he went back to the Mashiach and asked him: What gives? The Mashiach replied: I can only go and bring the redemption when God tells me I can. But I am ready to do this every day.

Rabbi Kanievsky is also echoing an idea expressed by many sages over the millennia, that in every generation there's a person capable of being the Mashiach, a person with the right potential. But the circumstances still haven't been ideal enough for this individual bring about the redemption.

Thus, Rabbi Kanievsky was not talking about, God-forbid, Jesus, but about two deep ideas about the real Jewish Mashiach. He was not talking about an immortal messianic individual, but of the concept of the Mashiach itself as it manifests through the generations.
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I believe God not only doesn't forbid it He did it.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Harel13 said:
Numbers 24:17:

"What I see for them is not yet, What I behold will not be soon: A star rises from Jacob, A scepter comes forth from Israel; It smashes the brow of Moab, The foundation of all children of Seth."​
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Thank you. For me the problem with that is, it doesn’t directly speak about future Messiah.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
If God cannot sin, he is not omnipotent.
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Sounds like one of those dilemmas questions that people come up with about God's power which are supposed to show God is not omnipotent but do not show that.
eg. Can God make a weight so heavy that He cannot lift it?
God is able to do whatever it would take for God to sin but chooses not to.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
Sounds like one of those dilemmas questions that people come up with about God's power which are supposed to show God is not omnipotent but do not show that.
eg. Can God make a weight so heavy that He cannot lift it?
God is able to do whatever it would take for God to sin but chooses not to.
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Your answer to my question about whether God had free will was a bit evasive. You said he couldn't do things that went against his character. Humans do things that go against their character frequently. Are humans superior to God?
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
Your answer to my question about whether God had free will was a bit evasive. You said he couldn't do things that went against his character. Humans do things that go against their character frequently. Are humans superior to God?
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A better word would be "nature" instead of "character".
God is love and God does not change.
God chooses to do good all the time and we humans don't seem to be able to do that.
God is completely good and we are not.
Is that superior?
 
T

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
rosends said:
For the real Jewish mashiach, we wouldn't say "was" as in "that the Christ was the only living being" nor would we use the word christ.
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The word “CHRIST” means “The Anointed One.”

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

So, How do Jews refer to their Messiah?
 
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