Which "afterlife" stories makes the most sense?

Trailblazer · Mar 25, 2021

Heyo said:
No striper factories and beer volcanoes? Count me out.

Those places will be there, but they will be in hell, not in heaven.
But don't worry, I heard from a friend that it is air conditioned down there.

blü 2 · Mar 25, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
I'm curious:

Which one(s) do you think makes most sense?
They don't have to be 100% true to ponder the question
Included interesting reads on your own time

Afterlife (Afterlife (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Reincarnation (Study of Reincarnation Archives | Division of Perceptual Studies)
Near death experiences (Near-Death Experiences - Academic Publications | Division of Perceptual Studies)
Spirit and humans in the "same dimension" (Spiritualist belief) I couldn't find anything on this but the gist is the our spirits (some sources call them energies) who exist after death and interact with our living loved ones.

These are missing a couple other views, but the concept is the same in separation between body and soul (or so have you).

Enjoy

A nicely assembled address, worthy of TED. Clear, balanced, probably not having time to probe its own assumptions eg about the usefulness of the 400 surveys mentioned.

I expect to be dead when I die. In my adult life, no alternative has ever made sense to me. If the dead are resurrected on Judgment Day, or if they're going to heaven, where are they going to live, where will their food be grown, will their fertility be restored, what are they going to do when they're sick of golf and they've seen NCIS from start to end twenty times already, what will be the meaning of the existence of any individual, and why would any thoughtful god give a plugged nickel?

I'll add one further point. I was present at the hospital bedside when my father died. After just a few minutes, the nurses asked us to wait outside while they laid out the body. This took them something short of half an hour. When I came back in, my father's body had a totally different appearance and presence ─ I understood why they call the body 'clay' and as I said at the time, it was exactly as if he'd gone away.

I knew he hadn't, but the effect was very striking.

Aupmanyav · Mar 25, 2021

All the four are silly ideas. Nothing strange in NDE, it is the last gasp of an oxygen starved carbon-mono-oxide dominated brain.

Trailblazer said:
I do not believe in a rebirth because that implies reincarnation. I would never want to come back to this world.
I believe we just continue to live, but in another world with another kind of body. That other world of existence can be likened to another dimension.

I do not want to discuss the fantasies that you may have (other kind of world, other kind of body), but you can never leave this world. All the atoms that constitute your body will remain here for a long long time (at least a billion years).

Conscious thoughts said:
This may sound strange for some, but there is truth in them all Now this may upset a monotheist to hear that other religious or philosophical "ideas" can have truth to them.

Now that is blasphemy, Abdo min al-Shamal, And Allah is not pleased with that.

viole · Mar 25, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
These are missing a couple other views, but the concept is the same in separation between body and soul (or so have you).

That also leads to the interesting biological consequence that a dynamic network of ca 100,000,000,000 neurones interconnected into zillions of ways, is totally useless or redundant.

Ciao

- viole

stvdv · Mar 25, 2021

Trailblazer said:
I have a definite preference for the Baha'i afterlife, not only because I am a Baha'i but also because I think it is super cool.
I am not so sure I will measure up, but at least I believe it is fair for all people.

Thank you for sharing, I like this:
* Just 3 minutes is great (Spirituality is simple, so short is good IMO). Lots of Bahai insights, nice to hear how Bahais see this.

Some highlights I liked:
Heaven can be seen as a state of nearness to God. Hell is a state of remoteness from God
Each state follows as a natural consequence of individual efforts or the lack thereof to develop spiritually
The key to spiritual growth is to follow the Path outlined by the Manifestations of God

Beyond this the exact nature of the afterlife remains a mystery
The nature of the Soul can never be described, Bahaullah writes

* Much info, hence I downloaded the transcript for myself, and placed it in spoiler below

Transcript from this video: (I forgive Google having trouble with Bahaullah's name)

1
00:00:02,620 --> 00:00:05,750
heaven and hell a Bahai view of life

2
00:00:05,750 --> 00:00:08,480
after death as in the world's other

3
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,700
religions the Baha'i concept of life

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00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:12,919
after death is deeply integrated into

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00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,320
teachings about the nature of the soul

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and the purpose of this earthly life

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Bahaullah confirmed the existence of a

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separate rational soul for every human

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in this life he said the soul is related

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to the physical body it provides the

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underlying animation for the body and is

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our real self

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although undetectable by physical

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instruments the soul shows itself

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through the qualities of character that

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we associate with each person the soul

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is the focal point for love and

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compassion for faith and courage and for

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other such human qualities that cannot

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be explained solely by thinking of a

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human being as an animal or as a

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sophisticated organic machine the soul

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does not die it endures everlastingly

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when the human body dies the soul is

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freed from its ties with the physical

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body and the surrounding physical world

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and begins its progress through the

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spiritual world bahais understand the

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spiritual world to be a timeless and

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placeless extension of our own universe

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and not some physically remote or

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removed place entry into the next life

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has the potential to bring great joy

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Bahaullah likened death to the process of

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birth he explains the world beyond is as

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different from this world as is this

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world is different from that of the

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child while still in the womb of its

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mother the analogy to the womb in many

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ways summarizes the Baha'i view of

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earthly existence just as the womb

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constitutes an important place for a

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person's initial physical development

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the physical world provides the matrix

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for the development of the individual

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soul accordingly Bahais view life as

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a sort of workshop where one can develop

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and perfect those qualities which will

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be needed in the next life know thou of

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a truth that if the soul of man have

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walked in the ways of God it will

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assuredly return and be gathered to the

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glory of the beloved

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Bahaullah wrote by the righteousness of God

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it shall attain a station such as no pen

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can depict or tongue

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described in the final analysis heaven

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can be seen partly as a state of

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nearness to God hell is a state of

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remoteness from God each state follows

61
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as a natural consequence of individual

62
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,490
efforts or the lack thereof to develop

63
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spiritually the key to spiritual

64
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progress is to follow the path outlined

65
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by the manifestations of God beyond this

66
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the exact nature of the afterlife

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remains a mystery the nature of the soul

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after death can never be described

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Bahaullah writes

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00:02:57,050 --> 00:02:59,110

stvdv · Mar 25, 2021

Power Stone said:
The nature of the soul is that it is a part of God aka infinity in my book

Thanks for sharing.

That is another view I came across, when studying Hindu Scriptures

I know one thing for sure, and that is that "I do not know for sure how all works in this vast Universe"

darkskies · Mar 25, 2021

Trailblazer said:
I believe we just continue to live, but in another world with another kind of body. That other world of existence can be likened to another dimension.

I like that. Sounds cool

stvdv · Mar 25, 2021

Which "afterlife" stories makes the most sense?

Unveiled Artist said:
I'm curious:

Which one(s) do you think makes most sense?
They don't have to be 100% true to ponder the question
Included interesting reads on your own time

First of: For me spirituality is not about "what makes most sense"

For me spirituality is about seemingly infinite potential available in the Universe, and that we humans are part of it and able to tap into it
A few thousand years ago, mr Flintstone could have maybe fantasized to drive 300 km/h, maybe believe it even, but he did not know for sure
That is also the case with Science, they will always be behind in understanding what is possible in this Universe

Back to the "afterlife" story, and what makes sense to me, personally
I had near death experiences, and from my experience about this, I now know that I am not the body/emotions/mind. Body can die, I don't care.

firedragon · Mar 25, 2021

Trailblazer said:
That would be hell for me, not heaven.

I think you are on the way to heaven. I have no doubt.

Unveiled Artist · Mar 25, 2021

Skywalker said:
I don't believe in afterlife stories. Jesus said in John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Do you believe you will not "meet" god after death?

Unveiled Artist · Mar 25, 2021

Conscious thoughts said:
This may sound strange for some, but there is truth in them all Now this may upset a monotheist to hear that other religious or philosophical "ideas" can have truth to them. But Just because I believe it is a certain way, i can not fully rule out that other has seen a truth and told it in a different way.

True. I can see some sense in all of them. The closest I'd relate to is probably reincarnation and spiritualist viewpoint. When I had my brain surgery and outpatient ones I get every ten years, when they give me general anesthesia I'm totally "out." It gave me a short epiphany that when I die that's it. I could have been out for two years and would have not known.

I also had a dream years ago I was drowning in a crowded swimming pool. The lifeguard was facing away from me. When the rest of my arm went under water, the last thought I had was "I'm at peace."

So, I do believe that our energies can be experienced and known of in places we lived, things we've owned, and people we loved or known us. I've had a huge experience 2014. Mother has had "spirit encounters" all her life (I'm jelous). My brother and his girlfriend left from one side if the US 14 hours about to midstates cause he believed our deceased aunt got mad at him for using up her money he stole though he was the one taking care of her when sick.

Afterlife somewhat makes sense but I can only imagine it as a concept. I'm not sure what actually lives on. What's a soul apart from the body.

Reincarnation makes sense but Im a bit skeptical about children having these memories but I can't find any other study apart from testimonies and highly suggestive correlated events. NDEs I feel is medically caused. It makes me thing for example in rare cases some patients experience intraoperative awareness. The anesthesia wears off briefly and the patient is aware of the surgeon and what's said but is paralyzed to call for help. They know everything the surgeon said and could do nothing.

Can you imagine!?

I'm sure there are other beliefs people have about the afterlife.

Spirit of Light · Mar 25, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
True. I can see some sense in all of them. The closest I'd relate to is probably reincarnation and spiritualist viewpoint. When I had my brain surgery and outpatient ones I get every ten years, when they give me general anesthesia I'm totally "out." It gave me a short epiphany that when I die that's it. I could have been out for two years and would have not known.

I also had a dream years ago I was drowning in a crowded swimming pool. The lifeguard was facing away from me. When the rest of my arm went under water, the last thought I had was "I'm at peace."

So, I do believe that our energies can be experienced and known of in places we lived, things we've owned, and people we loved or known us. I've had a huge experience 2014. Mother has had "spirit encounters" all her life (I'm jelous). My brother and his girlfriend left from one side if the US 14 hours about to midstates cause he believed our deceased aunt got mad at him for using up her money he stole though he was the one taking care of her when sick.

Afterlife somewhat makes sense but I can only imagine it as a concept. I'm not sure what actually lives on. What's a soul apart from the body.

Reincarnation makes sense but Im a bit skeptical about children having these memories but I can't find any other study apart from testimonies and highly suggestive correlated events. NDEs I feel is medically caused. It makes me thing for example in rare cases some patients experience intraoperative awareness. The anesthesia wears off briefly and the patient is aware of the surgeon and what's said but is paralyzed to call for help.

Can you imagine!?

I'm sure there are other beliefs people have about the afterlife.

At this moment in time i can honestly say i do not know what will happen after my body dies, I personally believe in paradise is there for us to reach, but I can not say i am one of them who will enter. I might even go to what is called Hell. But one thing i will do the rest of my human life is to try to figger it out so i may be more prepared when i do leave this world

Twilight Hue · Mar 25, 2021

Trailblazer said:
I do not believe in a rebirth because that implies reincarnation. I would never want to come back to this world.
I believe we just continue to live, but in another world with another kind of body. That other world of existence can be likened to another dimension.

Well my version of rebirth is like this life right now.

It's a bit different than a traditional view. No idea where you were and no idea where your going. Just knowing what this life entails.

Your response is excellent. I too, take it as one day waking up as another being in another existence with no memory of former existence.

Just like the manner that this life came to be.

9-10ths_Penguin · Mar 25, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
I'm curious:

Which one(s) do you think makes most sense?
They don't have to be 100% true to ponder the question
Included interesting reads on your own time

Afterlife (Afterlife (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Reincarnation (Study of Reincarnation Archives | Division of Perceptual Studies)
Near death experiences (Near-Death Experiences - Academic Publications | Division of Perceptual Studies)
Spirit and humans in the "same dimension" (Spiritualist belief) I couldn't find anything on this but the gist is the our spirits (some sources call them energies) who exist after death and interact with our living loved ones.

These are missing a couple other views, but the concept is the same in separation between body and soul (or so have you).

Enjoy

The only afterlife that makes sense, IMO, is living on in the memories of those who remember us, and in the lasting legacy of what we do on Earth.

If you're talking about us literally surviving the deaths of our physical bodies somehow, identify a mechanism that would allow this to even be possible. Withiut that, any literal afterlife is not a reasonable proposition.

"I have made compacts with fourteen different persons that whichever of us died first would communicate with the other if it were possible, but I have never received a word." - Harry Houdini

wellwisher · Mar 25, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
Which one(s) do you think makes most sense?
They don't have to be 100% true to ponder the question
Included interesting reads on your own time

The one that makes the most sense comes from a physics theory I developed. Science has hundreds of theories, but only a small handful of laws. One law of science is the 2nd law, which states that the entropy of the universe has to increase. While an increase in entropy absorbs energy.

Entropy increase is often associated with increasing complexity. The universe starts simple and get more and more complex, no matter what your science or religious belief. The second law is consistent for all. If entropy has to increase, and it absorbs energy than the universe is bleeding or losing useable energy into the ever increasing entropy. The universe is losing energy over time in ever increasing entropy.

The first law is energy conservation, where energy cannot be created or destroyed but can only change form. The second says the material universe is losing energy, while the first law says, this energy has to be conserved, but in another form, that the 2nd law implies is off limits to the material universe.

The after life has a possible pool of energy, that is consist with all religious views of the afterlife, and the first two laws of science. The energy is not of this material realm, but it is nevertheless conserved via energy conservation. Ghosts of the dead are on the other side of barrier in most folk lore. Heaven and Hell are not material in nature.

Where it gets very interesting is the brain generate a lot of entropy; neuron firing of memory. Conceptually, the energy loss by the universe, due to the brain's entropy increase; neuron firing, is conserved. There is information of you is on the other side. Your brain has recorded all that you did, and this appears to be conserved according to the first two laws of science; most important two laws.

I have yet to find a physicist who can refute the logic, without breaking one or both of these first two laws of science. I don't push too hard, since this is hard to digest if you lack faith.

Regiomontanus · Mar 25, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
Hmm. Where do you go once resurrected?

Unanswerable

loverofhumanity · Mar 25, 2021

Regarding the after life. Me personally, I only accept as true whatever the Prophets of God have stated. All else i consider to be man made imaginations. Why? Because I believe the Prophets of God are pre-existent. That is, They were not born at conception, but in another world before appearing here in human attire and that Their knowledge is infallible and innate. There is no greater spiritual knowledge than what They have given us. That is my personal belief.

Trailblazer · Mar 25, 2021

blü 2 said:
When I came back in, my father's body had a totally different appearance and presence ─ I understood why they call the body 'clay' and as I said at the time, it was exactly as if he'd gone away.

I knew he hadn't, but the effect was very striking.

How do you know he hadn't? What of he did?

Trailblazer · Mar 25, 2021

loverofhumanity said:
Me personally, I only accept as true whatever the Prophets of God have stated. All else i consider to be man made imagination.

It is not necessarily man-made imagination, just because the Prophets did not write it.
I believe that others can also know what lies beyond.

loverofhumanity said:
Their knowledge is infallible and innate. There is no greater spiritual knowledge than what They have given us.

I agree, but that does not mean nobody else has any knowledge of the afterlife.
Some people want to know more than the Prophets revealed about the afterlife, which is paltry.

“Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.

As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346

Why aren't They able to describe it? They could if they wanted to.

Trailblazer · Mar 25, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
If you're talking about us literally surviving the deaths of our physical bodies somehow, identify a mechanism that would allow this to even be possible. Without that, any literal afterlife is not a reasonable proposition.

The mechanism is called the soul.

Which "afterlife" stories makes the most sense?

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