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WHat is Passover?

Keep tell yourself that.

Meanwhile, try chewing on this:

Matthew 23:1-7:

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.​

“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.​

Matthew 23:13-38:

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate.
Also, the author of Matthew shows he is illiterate in scriptures because he's claiming that the prophet killed was Zechariah ben Berachiah, when it was, in fact, Zechariah ben Yehoyadah. So both evil and illiterate. Not a great look for Christians.

Matthew 27:25:

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”
Revelations 2:9:

I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelations 3:9:

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars
John 7:1:

After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him.​

John 7:12-13:

So the Jewish leaders were looking for him at the feast, asking, “Where is he?” There was a lot of grumbling about him among the crowds. Some were saying, “He is a good man,” but others, “He deceives the common people.” However, no one spoke openly about him for fear of the Jewish leaders.​

John 7:45-52:

Then the officers returned to the chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why didn’t you bring him back with you?” The officers replied, “No one ever spoke like this man!” Then the Pharisees answered, “You haven’t been deceived too, have you? None of the members of the ruling council or the Pharisees have believed in him, have they? But this rabble who do not know the law are accursed!”

Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus before and who was one of the rulers, said, “Our law doesn’t condemn a man unless it first hears from him and learns what he is doing, does it?” They replied, “You aren’t from Galilee too, are you? Investigate carefully and you will see that no prophet comes from Galilee!”​

John 8:39-59:

They answered him, “Abraham is our father!” Jesus replied, “If you are Abraham’s children, you would be doing the deeds of Abraham. But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth I heard from God. Abraham did not do this! You people are doing the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Jesus, “We were not born as a result of immorality! We have only one Father, God himself.” Jesus replied, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come from God and am now here. I have not come on my own initiative, but he sent me. Why don’t you understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot accept my teaching. You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I am telling you the truth, you do not believe me. Who among you can prove me guilty of any sin? If I am telling you the truth, why don’t you believe me? The one who belongs to God listens and responds to God’s words. You don’t listen and respond, because you don’t belong to God.”

The Judeans replied, “Aren’t we correct in saying that you are a Samaritan and are possessed by a demon?” Jesus answered, “I am not possessed by a demon, but I honor my Father—and yet you dishonor me. I am not trying to get praise for myself. There is one who demands it, and he also judges. I tell you the solemn truth, if anyone obeys my teaching, he will never see death.”

Then the Judeans responded, “Now we know you’re possessed by a demon! Both Abraham and the prophets died, and yet you say, ‘If anyone obeys my teaching, he will never experience death.’ You aren’t greater than our father Abraham who died, are you? And the prophets died too! Who do you claim to be?” Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory is worthless. The one who glorifies me is my Father, about whom you people say, ‘He is our God.’ Yet you do not know him, but I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you. But I do know him, and I obey his teaching. Your father Abraham was overjoyed to see my day, and he saw it and was glad.”

Then the Judeans replied, “You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!” Then they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus was hidden from them and went out from the temple area.
I can go on, if you want.
How is calling out the Religious leaders for their false teaching, hypocrisy,’and sin anti-Semitic? They abused their position of authority and took advantage of people. Are you saying the Religious leaders are representative of all Jews?
 
It's like you've never heard of Noachidism. It's as though most Christians just think untill their guy came along, G-d just never cared about non-Jews. Despite books like Iyov, Bereschit, Rut and Yonah, this belief persists.
You make a lot of false assumptions
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
How so? There are false teachers and teaching that have permeated the Church, that doesn’t make the Christianity pagan.
I'll make a list and you tell me which of these you don't believe in:

god impregnating a woman
The trinity
Jesus is the literal son of god
Jesus is god
Human sacrifices
Jesus is the lamb of god
Drinking blood
Eating human flesh
god dying and resurrecting
One can shave his head and face with a razor
One can get a tattoo
There's nothing wrong with divination
Mankind needs a mediator to reach god
god changed his mind
god said things he didn't mean
 
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Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Are you saying the Religious leaders are representative of all Jews?
They are representative of religious Jews. And you have at long last reached the conclusion drawn by millions of Christians over the last two millennia which served various Christian leaders well in inciting raging mobs and sending them out to murder in cold blood multitudes of Jews. Kudos.
 
I'll make a list and you tell me which of these you don't believe in:

god impregnating a woman
The trinity
Jesus is the literal son of god
Jesus is god
Human sacrifices
Jesus is the lamb of god
Drinking blood
Eating human flesh
god dying and resurrecting
One can shave his head and face with a razor
One can get a tattoo
There's nothing wrong with divination
Mankind needs a mediator to reach god
What’s the question? Will cut to the chase, Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness, that’s the same with everyone. If you’re trying to get right with God by keeping the Law you’ve already failed. Unless a person is born again they cannot enter the kingdom of God.
 
So why do you think you need Christianity to be a part of G-d's worshippers if it were never necessary in the first place?
You don’t and it’s better to use the term believer or non believer. You’re either born again or not. Either you’re part of the bride of Christ or not.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
You don’t and it’s better to use the term believer or non believer. You’re either born again or not. Either you’re part of the bride of Christ or not.
But why do you need Jesus or to be born again to have a relationship with G-d, when according to Judaism we never needed those things before?
 
They are representative of religious Jews. And you have at long last reached the conclusion drawn by millions of Christians over the last two millennia which served various Christian leaders well in inciting raging mobs and sending them out to murder in cold blood multitudes of Jews. Kudos.
Your views are similar to a lot of people these days that if you correct, disagree or confront people you hate them. I don’t share that sentiment.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So your added jab is meaningless if the babies are guilty. Do you have evidence that they were innocent?
I don't need to have evidence they were innocent, there just has to be an absence of evidence for their guilt.

As far as I know all just societies assume innocence until proven guilty.
 
But why do you need Jesus or to be born again to have a relationship with G-d, when according to Judaism we never needed those things before?
Always needed faith/trust. Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness for him. The law was just a tutor to bring people to Christ, it’s all spelled out throughout the Scriptures that God was going to send His Son.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
What’s the question? Will cut to the chase, Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness, that’s the same with everyone. If you’re trying to get right with God by keeping the Law you’ve already failed. Unless a person is born again they cannot enter the kingdom of God.
The question is, what of the list that I made do you not believe in? Please answer that one.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Always needed faith/trust. Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness for him. The law was just a tutor to bring people to Christ, it’s all spelled out throughout the Scriptures that God was going to send His Son.
Abraham also had works. He had circumcision, too, and let's not forget the akeda. G-d didn't give the Torah just to cruelly show people, for over 1,000 years, that they couldn't keep it. As I already showed you, the text itself says that the law is not far from them and that they can keep it. There is nothing like Christianity within the Torah or anywhere else in the Tanakh. If the law were just some kind of tutor it wasn't a very good one because 99.999% of Jews never became Christian, saw nothing remotely Jewish about Christianity, found Jesus completely wanting as the Messiah, and stuck to being Jews. The scholars who had been studying and copying the Torah for years on end never saw any allusions to Jesus either.

For some reason, the non-Jews who had never studied the Torah in their life readily took to Christianity.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I don't need to have evidence they were innocent, there just has to be an absence of evidence for their guilt.

As far as I know all just societies assume innocence until proven guilty.
so in the absence of evidence regarding babies, you assume an entire class or group of people to be innocent. I have never been bitten by a wolf therefore all wolves are safe. You know, safe until proven dangerous.

I have to clean my kitchen and you have completely missed on this entire line of thinking. You should stick to your concern over whether an event is historical without trying to add in other jabs.
 
Abraham also had works. He had circumcision, too, and let's not forget the akeda. G-d didn't give the Torah just to cruelly show people, for over 1,000 years, that they couldn't keep it. As I already showed you, the text itself says that the law is not far from them and that they can keep it. There is nothing like Christianity within the Torah or anywhere else in the Tanakh. If the law were just some kind of tutor it wasn't a very good one because 99.999% of Jews never became Christian, saw nothing remotely Jewish about Christianity, found Jesus completely wanting as the Messiah, and stuck to being Jews. The scholars who had been studying and copying the Torah for years on end never saw any allusions to Jesus either.

For some reason, the non-Jews who had never studied the Torah in their life readily took to Christianity.
Except that the early Church was all Jewish and they were surprised God had accepted the Gentiles apart from the law and simply because the believed the Gospel.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Except that the early Church was all Jewish and they were surprised God had accepted the Gentiles apart from the law and simply because the believed the Gospel.
It didn't stay Jewish. It's unknown whether Luke (or whomever wrote Luke-Acts) were Jewish. It wasn't the scholarly classes who were taken by Jesus, it was the uneducated layfolk, the fishermen, the itinerant. We're not talking about folks who can read or write.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
It didn't stay Jewish. It's unknown whether Luke (or whomever wrote Luke-Acts) were Jewish. It wasn't the scholarly classes who were taken by Jesus, it was the uneducated layfolk, the fishermen, the itinerant. We're not talking about folks who can read or write.
Easily manipulated, perhaps...
 
Abraham also had works. He had circumcision, too, and let's not forget the akeda. G-d didn't give the Torah just to cruelly show people, for over 1,000 years, that they couldn't keep it. As I already showed you, the text itself says that the law is not far from them and that they can keep it. There is nothing like Christianity within the Torah or anywhere else in the Tanakh. If the law were just some kind of tutor it wasn't a very good one because 99.999% of Jews never became Christian, saw nothing remotely Jewish about Christianity, found Jesus completely wanting as the Messiah, and stuck to being Jews. The scholars who had been studying and copying the Torah for years on end never saw any allusions to Jesus either.

For some reason, the non-Jews who had never studied the Torah in their life readily took to Christianity.
As far as “works” ... Some people try to work their way to Heaven, which is impossible, some receive the gift and show they have by their works.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
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