• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Deceptive religious advertizing / recruitment

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Falling Down the TM Rabbit Hole, How TM Really Works, a Critical Opinion

I was curious about a certain religion (Transcendental Meditation), so I came across this anti-cult website. The author’s main point is that he was manipulated / deceived into joining said religion after having attended some “intensive course”. He wasn’t forced to attend that course, nor was he hindered from leaving.

I am willing to concede he has a point as I do recognize some of the techniques he describes in the community I have been attending (Hare Krishna) but I just wondered whether his claim to have been manipulated holds water.

I think the “brainwashing” techniques (if you want to call them that way) of commercial advertisement are much more intense. You are told that you will become younger, more successful, more likable, in a word, have a “perfect life” if you just buy product X. As the simplest example, in advertisements, the name of product X may be repeated over and over and over again, to get it hammered into your mind. Nobody objects to this, it’s how markets work. So, if people are held capable of deciding whether they want rice or noodles with lunch, why should it be any difference with religions?

I also wondered whether joining a controversial religion is comparable to falling in love. Many people fall in love with a person because they remind them, let’s say, of their mother/father. Then, with time, they become disillusioned because their lover may look like one’s mother/father, but has a totally different character. Is this the lover's fault?

So, what is your opinion about manipulative “advertising” methods of religions? Do you think there should be a line which must not be crossed? In your country, are there or should there be laws or authorities which regulate manipulative recruitment methods?

As a side note, in Germany, it is forbidden to advertise for a religion or worldview on TV, supposedly because the authorities don’t hold people capable of of making a decision in the “rice or noodles” issue. Some years ago this led to a ban of TV ads for a Christian book (Power for Living), which was not directly advertised as a Christian book. Instead, it was suggested that it was a secular self-help book. You only found out about its true content when you actually started reading it.

Power for Living - Wikipedia
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Falling Down the TM Rabbit Hole, How TM Really Works, a Critical Opinion

I was curious about a certain religion (Transcendental Meditation), so I came across this anti-cult website. The author’s main point is that he was manipulated / deceived into joining said religion after having attended some “intensive course”. He wasn’t forced to attend that course, nor was he hindered from leaving.

I am willing to concede he has a point as I do recognize some of the techniques he describes in the community I have been attending (Hare Krishna) but I just wondered whether his claim to have been manipulated holds water.

I think the “brainwashing” techniques (if you want to call them that way) of commercial advertisement are much more intense. You are told that you will become younger, more successful, more likable, in a word, have a “perfect life” if you just buy product X. As the simplest example, in advertisements, the name of product X may be repeated over and over and over again, to get it hammered into your mind. Nobody objects to this, it’s how markets work. So, if people are held capable of deciding whether they want rice or noodles with lunch, why should it be any difference with religions?

I also wondered whether joining a controversial religion is comparable to falling in love. Many people fall in love with a person because they remind them, let’s say, of their mother/father. Then, with time, they become disillusioned because their lover may look like one’s mother/father, but has a totally different character. Is this the lover's fault?

So, what is your opinion about manipulative “advertising” methods of religions? Do you think there should be a line which must not be crossed? In your country, are there or should there be laws or authorities which regulate manipulative recruitment methods?

As a side note, in Germany, it is forbidden to advertise for a religion or worldview on TV, supposedly because the authorities don’t hold people capable of of making a decision in the “rice or noodles” issue. Some years ago this led to a ban of TV ads for a Christian book (Power for Living), which was not directly advertised as a Christian book. Instead, it was suggested that it was a secular self-help book. You only found out about its true content when you actually started reading it.

Power for Living - Wikipedia

I think purposefully withholding information is deceptive, and it will be negative karma for the person or group who does it. So too with pretending you're something you're not.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Thanks for pointing this out. I am familiar with Stephen Hassan's book, but my question was rather about whether (some of) such activities should be considered legal as long as they don't constitute outright crimes.

I think part of the problem is that they all are legal. It's legal to gaslight someone; it's legal to slowly suck them in to a cult and make them think it was their idea in the first place. It's insidious.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
For me, the fact that a religion would perceive itself as being authorized to practice deception in the name of or for the sake of it's presumed spiritual righteousness renders it both dishonest and toxic. Something to be shunned and loathed.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
To the extent that a religion practices the things at this link, they are a mind control cult:

Steven Hassan's BITE Model of Authoritarian Control - Freedom of Mind Resource Center
Most of that is reasonable. But that list goes way way too far in some areas:

Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming

Singing? Humming? Meditating? That's just bogus. Stopping negative thoughts? So psychology is a cult as well.

Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism

The ignores the reality that the mind is not the sole method of perception. As the movie "They Might Be Giants" ends which echoes a principle from many different spiritual perspectives:
"The human heart can see what's hidden to the eyes, and the heart knows things that the mind does not begin to understand."

Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful
Instill new “map of reality

Not useful? That lumps all spiritual and religious doctrine into the cult category and is bogus.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
So, what is your opinion about manipulative “advertising” methods of religions? Do you think there should be a line which must not be crossed?

It's natural for ordinary religious groups to advertise that their way is the best way. It's not ideal from my perspective, but it's human nature.

I've found that real spiritual groups don't advertise as such. They state their beliefs and principles openly and those that feel an affinity are invited to learn more. They lack a lower organizational ego and operate on the idea that there are "a thousand ways to kneel and kiss the ground".

The line is the line between religion and cults. Cults can of course be political as well as religious. They're based on pumping up the ego by marketing that they have exclusive access to TRUTH and everyone else is evil in one way or the other. They do many of the things that the "BITE" model notes.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Thanks for pointing this out. I am familiar with Stephen Hassan's book, but my question was rather about whether (some of) such activities should be considered legal as long as they don't constitute outright crimes.

That is what Steve Hassan is currently trying to fight for if I remember correctly. Most people in government apparently don't understand the seriousness of mind control. But then again they use mind control tactics as a part of politics so they might not be motivated to make that illegal in any case.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
To the extent that a religion practices the things at this link, they are a mind control cult:

Steven Hassan's BITE Model of Authoritarian Control - Freedom of Mind Resource Center
IMO:

I read a bit through the list after reading @sun rise his comment
I also am quite amazed, and disagree with a few items on his list

So, let's hope people don't try to make a kind of Religion out of Steven Hassan's List
But when taken with a grain of salt, people can take out quite a few pointers to make their own decision
Everything is karma related, seeing such reactions I fully understand now why there used to be "Secret Spiritual Groups"
And also their advice to NOT share their wisdom and insight with people outside their circle, as wrong interpretation creates trouble usually

Below quote out of this page, takes at least the heavy edge off of "Thought-Control point 7", which I found a bit over the top
Destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause; it is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present.

Like many techniques, it is not inherently good or evil. If mind control techniques are used to empower an individual to have more choice, and authority for their life remains within themselves, the effects can be beneficial. For example, benevolent mind control can be used to help people quit smoking without affecting any other behavior. Mind control becomes destructive when it undermines a person’s ability to think and act independently.
 
Top