A bit of a health scare

It Aint Necessarily So · Mar 21, 2021

SigurdReginson said:
So, earlier today while I was waking up before getting ready for work, I sat up in bed and stretched. As I finished stretching, my right eye lost vision halfway. On the left side of my field of view, I could see perfectly fine, but on the right hand side I could only perceive light. as I got up, I felt like I had a difficult time keeping my balance: I was all wobbly. I couldn't concentrate, and I could feel my cognizance leaving me. My short term memory was going away... It was a very surreal feeling.

So, I get to the ED, and they take it all very seriously. They start running different tests and thoroughly poke and prod me. They kept talking about "stroke," though as time goes on they switch over to "TIA." See, the problems went away 90% after 30 mins, but the remaining 10% of the problems finally went away after about 2-3 hours. My vitals, ct scan, blood screens, and everything else came back fine, so they sent me on my merry way.

I'm not out of the woods yet, though. Over the next 48 hours I have a 1 in 3 chance of having a full on stroke: assuming this is a TIA.

Honestly, though? I feel fine. I'm not really worried at all. I'm relaxed. Even in the midst of the attack, I felt no fear... Annoyance more than anything else, but no fear at all.

Fear of death is something me and my best friend have talked about before. She's a staunch atheist, but she's told me that if her life was threatened in a serious way, she thinks she'd plead to god for help. At one point in my life, I would have as well. Hell, when I jacked up my arm a few years back, I did pray hard. Since completing my religious deconstruction, though? It's not even a thought in my mind. The first thought on my mind now is in how I can solve the puzzle that a problem presents.

I think we all have different ways of dealing with things, though. Different factors cause us to respond in different ways. Certain stimuli can cause us to respond in fear, anger, laughter, or anything, really. We can change the way we respond to certain things, though... But that does take self awareness.

When I was religious, I was a very fearful person. I was afraid of supernatural evil, of being led astray by sinful people, and even god (or rather, breaking his rules). I've removed that fear from my life now, though... And life is good. Hmmm... I do feel like in ending my reliance on religion, I've since crucified my ego. Why be afraid? Life will carry on much like it always has long after I'm gone. Life is bigger than me.

One day we have to die... This is nothing to be afraid of, though. It's just the way of nature. Enjoy life while you can, because one day it will slip away sooner or later. The only part of us that gets to live on after we die are the consequences of our actions: so act thoughtfully. It really is as simple as that.

ideogenous_mover said:
hm , over the past 10 years or so I occasionally have gotten a pretty weird blinding effect in one eye... It starts out as like a sort of undulating light pattern that starts real small, but then grows to cover the whole vision of the eye. After a time, it dissipates. I think this happened twice, maybe three times. I think maybe it happened on really bright summer days, and it kind of seemed like it might have had something to do with something I looked at, that was too bright in the wrong way? Or maybe sweating to my eye... I don't know, I'm not a doctor. My short term memory has sort of been slowly degrading as well I think, over the years. I am about to turn 35.. I kind of think some this might be related to the autism thing, but I don't know

On the fear of death .. I have been reading marcus aurelius back to back with the saga of the volsungs.. The common thread there, is a foundation of courage and fate , no room for fear in those pagan philosophies when talk about what the gods want from man. I find that that spiritual style seems to sort of help me, in living how I do.. climbing high on stuff, and operating dangerous machinery as a job

Two other diagnoses to consider besides TIA: nonconvulsive seizure with eye symptoms, and retinal migraine (was there a headache afterward?).

Ophthalmologic Manifestations of Epilepsy - EyeWiki

Retinal migraine: Causes, symptoms, and treatment

stvdv · Mar 21, 2021

Trailblazer said:
I am not the one who is afraid, it is the millions of people who are rushing to get the vaccines that are afraid.
They are so afraid that cannot even see straight.

Valid point. Good to see that you can see straight. Many people have indeed quite some fear; and millions seems to even be an underestimation

.

And I heard many go through all kinds of hoops to avoid having to admit that. And I heard them even start accusing those who don't take the vaccine of having fear. And as a last resort, some go even that low, that they play the guilt card, telling the person that he or she is irresponsible. Human mind is indeed a "funny thing"

It Aint Necessarily So · Mar 21, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Does anyone really know what the risks of the vaccines are?

No, except the short term risks, because we're only in the short term. We may find that in a year, Pfizer causes diabetes, or Johnson & Johnson causes kidney damage in five, or Astra-Zeneca causes leukemia in ten. But that's also true for just about any substance with biological activity.

Trailblazer said:
There is a guarantee I won't be hurt by the vaccine if I don't take it. There is no guarantee I won't be hurt if I do take it.

This is an incomplete assessment of the risks. You also need to consider the potential cost of acquiring the virus, and compare them, that is, what is the relative cost of acting (taking the vaccine) weighted by the likelihood of a bad outcome compared to the weighted cost of not acting and being wrong.

Where you're at now is like the person in a burning house just struck by lightning who refuses to leave the house because she knows if she sits tight, she won't be hit by lightning, but if she goes out, she might.

She's only considering the cost of acting, which is very unlikely to be costly when one factors in the relative likelihood of being harmed by lightning, but not the cost of not acting, which in this case, is very likely to be lethal. Once she considers the whole problem, she'll get up and get out.

That example is extreme, but the principle is the same.

Trailblazer said:
I worked in an office my entire life, never had a flu shot, and never got the flu.

Not the same if large swathes of people around you are already vaccinated for influenza when the year's strain arrives. Herd immunity protects you, which won't be the case for the SARS-cov-2 virus for a few months more at least. Remember, if you have a 50-50 chance of acquiring an infection if exposed to an active carrier, if 10% of people you encounter are infected, you will have a 100x greater chance of encountering such a person on any given day than if most are vaccinated and only 0.1% of the people you encounter are infectious.

Trailblazer said:
They are doing what they do mainly for themselves so they can feel safe and protected

Yes, just like wearing a seatbelt. It is unfair to characterize that as fear rather than a reasonable precaution against a known danger.

But we are doing it for others as well. You will benefit from my vaccination and those of others who took it. My wife and I are each protecting the other by both being vaccinated.

amorphous_constellation · Mar 21, 2021

It Aint Necessarily So said:
nonconvulsive seizure with eye symptoms, and retinal migraine (was there a headache afterward?).

hm.. never heard of non-convulsive seizures.. I have had lifelong spasms though, from about the middle of the spinal cord

No headache for me. I've never in my life had a headache.. not even when I cracked by head on a bare truck frame after rolling backwards into a maple tree, from the top of an icy hill with a 60 degree pitch, eleven or twelve years ago. But from that, I think might have gotten an occasional funny sensation in my neck vertebrae

It Aint Necessarily So · Mar 21, 2021

ideogenous_mover said:
hm.. never heard of non-convulsive seizures.. I have had lifelong spasms though, from about the middle of the spinal cord

No headache for me. I've never in my life had a headache.. not even when I cracked by head on a bare truck frame after rolling backwards into a maple tree, from the top of an icy hill with a 60 degree pitch, eleven or twelve years ago. But from that, I think might have gotten an occasional funny sensation in my neck vertebrae

Petit mal seizures (absence seizures) are the classic example of a nonconvulsive seizure. Kids just stare for a while and are difficult to get through to until the seizure ends, sometimes dozens of times a day.

"Absence seizures involve brief, sudden lapses of consciousness. They're more common in children than in adults. Someone having an absence seizure may look like he or she is staring blankly into space for a few seconds. Then, there is a quick return to a normal level of alertness."

Also, temporal lobe seizures are nonconvulsive (sensory seizures). These are the seizures where people here or smell something not present, for example

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
You are not looking at this rationally. The odds are that you will get that disease and suffer severe consequences is much higher than the odds that the vaccine will harm you.

How did you determine these odds?

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
What are you saying?

Just what I said. The Manifestations of God do not kill or destroy anyone but God can and does.

Subduction Zone · Mar 21, 2021

Trailblazer said:
How did you determine these odds?

As I told you. They study the number of reactions to the vaccine. The odds of being infected can be calculated too. As do the odds of having a severe case. Immunologists do not go into this blind.

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

stvdv said:
Valid point. Many people have indeed quite some fear; and millions seems to be an underestimation. Good to see that you can see straight.

And I heard many go through all kinds of hoops to avoid having to admit that. And I heard them even start accusing those who don't take the vaccine of having fear. And as a last resort, some go even that low, that they play the guilt card, telling the person that he or she is irresponsible. Human mind is indeed a "funny thing"

Why are most people afraid to admit they are afraid of the virus, it is drop dead obvious. Accusing those who don't take the vaccine of having fear is just a way to deflect. Why do they care if I take the vaccine? I'm nit hurting them by not taking it.

Truthseeker · Mar 21, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Just what I said. The Manifestations of God do not kill or destroy anyone but God can and does.

We have a difference of opinion on that one. There's no use arguing it.

I just noticed for the first time that when a person is online, there is a green dot in the upper left corner that vibrates.

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
As I told you. They study the number of reactions to the vaccine. The odds of being infected can be calculated too. As do the odds of having a severe case. Immunologists do not go into this blind.

The odds of becoming infected or of having a severe case cannot be calculated for individuals only for the whole.
Regarding the reactions to the vaccine, all they know is what has been observed thus far.
Aside from that, can you prove that the information you are getting is accurate?
Do you believe everything you hear on the mainstream news?

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
We have a difference of opinion on that one. There's no use arguing it.

So you do not believe that God determines our fate? What then do you have to say about this passage?

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Truthseeker9 said:
I just noticed for the first time that when a person is online, there is a green dot in the upper left corner that vibrates.

Yes, that dot appears if they want it to, but some people turn it off because they don't want others to know they are online.

Subduction Zone · Mar 21, 2021

Trailblazer said:
The odds of becoming infected or of having a severe case cannot be calculated for individuals only for the whole.
Regarding the reactions to the vaccine, all they know is what has been observed thus far.
Aside from that, can you prove that the information you are getting is accurate?
Do you believe everything you hear on the mainstream news?

That is how one calculates the odds of an individual getting the disease. Now there may be some factors that lower or increase one's odds over the average, but even then, unless one lives on an isolated island, there is a good chance of catching the disease. Especially at times of outbreak. And each time that we have relaxed our guards we have been hit by harder and harder outbreaks. The experts were afraid of winter. That is the time when people spend most of their time indoors and then with holidays added in there was more mixing than normal. That is why we had such a bad Thanksgiving and then Christmas boom in cases.

Truthseeker · Mar 21, 2021

Trailblazer said:
So you do not believe that God determines our fate? What then do you have to say about this passage?

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Yes, that dot appears if they want it to, but some people turn it off because they don't want others to know they are online.

I just don't believe that our fate is to be destroyed by God at any time. It is us who destroy ourselves. The evil spoken of here should be evaluated in the light of:

O Son of Man! My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy. Hasten thereunto that thou mayest become an eternal light and an immortal spirit. This is My command unto thee, do thou observe it.

Bahá’u’lláh, "The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh", a51

How they would turn off that dot is beyond me.

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
That is how one calculates the odds of an individual getting the disease. Now there may be some factors that lower or increase one's odds over the average, but even then, unless one lives on an isolated island, there is a good chance of catching the disease.

Can you explain why you think there is a good chance of catching the disease unless one is on an isolated island?
What evidence is there is that? How can we catch the disease if we wear a mask and are socially distant on the rare occasion when we go out in public?

Subduction Zone said:
Especially at times of outbreak. And each time that we have relaxed our guards we have been hit by harder and harder outbreaks. The experts were afraid of winter. That is the time when people spend most of their time indoors and then with holidays added in there was more mixing than normal. That is why we had such a bad Thanksgiving and then Christmas boom in cases.

It seems to me that the experts are afraid of everything that might happen. They said it would be exacerbated by the flu and then hardly anyone got the flu last season. Frankly, I think they have blown this whole thing up out of proportion, but given how most people live socially I guess it is better to blow it up to try to get people's attention.

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

Truthseeker9 said:
I just don't believe that our fate is to be destroyed by God at any time. It is us who destroy ourselves. The evil spoken of here should be evaluated in the light of:

O Son of Man! My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy. Hasten thereunto that thou mayest become an eternal light and an immortal spirit. This is My command unto thee, do thou observe it.

Bahá’u’lláh, "The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh", a51

I do not understand how that Hidden Word is related. Apparently, just like most Baha'is you are saying we should see tests as gifts from God. God can do no wrong. Sorry, but I do not see it that way, I see it as cruel when these tests just keep coming and incapacitate a person, and then we are supposed to work for the Faith?

I will bet you 100 million dollars that if those Baha'is had walked a mile in my moccasins they would be singing another tune. I alone know what I have suffered, me and God.

Truthseeker9 said:
How they would turn off that dot is beyond me.

I don't know. I guess you could ask the RF staff.

We Never Know · Mar 21, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
You are not looking at this rationally. The odds are that you will get that disease and suffer severe consequences is much higher than the odds that the vaccine will harm you.

We don't know what, if any, long term side effects will be. There are many drugs that have adverse side effects that don't show up for years.

Trailblazer · Mar 21, 2021

It Aint Necessarily So said:
No, except the short term risks, because we're only in the short term. We may find that in a year, Pfizer causes diabetes, or Johnson & Johnson causes kidney damage in five, or Astra-Zeneca causes leukemia in ten. But that's also true for just about any substance with biological activity.

That is why I do not take drugs unless I have to. Luckily I have not had to.

It Aint Necessarily So said:
This is an incomplete assessment of the risks. You also need to consider the potential cost of acquiring the virus, and compare them, that is, what is the relative cost of acting (taking the vaccine) weighted by the likelihood of a bad outcome compared to the weighted cost of not acting and being wrong.

Where you're at now is like the person in a burning house just struck by lightning who refuses to leave the house because she knows if she sits tight, she won't be hit by lightning, but if she goes out, she might.

She's only considering the cost of acting, which is very unlikely to be costly when one factors in the relative likelihood of being harmed by lightning, but not the cost of not acting, which in this case, is very likely to be lethal. Once she considers the whole problem, she'll get up and get out.

That example is extreme, but the principle is the same.

First, I am not staying home because of Covid, I always lived this way. I do not socialize and I do not go out unless I need something, usually only for groceries. Moreover, I am not worried that if I go out I will get Covid.

Very likely to be lethal? How many people who have contracted the virus have died? How old were they and what were their underlying conditions?

In the assessment of risks, I have to weigh the cost the possibility of a bad outcome to my long-term health condition by acting compared to the cost of not acting and waiting to see what happens. I can always choose to take the vaccine later but I cannot get it out of my body after I take it.

It Aint Necessarily So said:
Not the same if large swathes of people around you are already vaccinated for influenza when the year's strain arrives. Herd immunity protects you, which won't be the case for the SARS-cov-2 virus for a few months more at least.

If that’s true, I will be happy to wait a few or more months.

It Aint Necessarily So said:
Remember, if you have a 50-50 chance of acquiring an infection if exposed to an active carrier, if 10% of people you encounter are infected, you will have a 100x greater chance of encountering such a person on any given day than if most are vaccinated and only 0.1% of the people you encounter are infectious.

Then let everyone who wants it get the vaccine. Meanwhile I will wear my mask and be socially distant as well, if I have to go grocery shopping.

It Aint Necessarily So said:
Yes, just like wearing a seatbelt. It is unfair to characterize that as fear rather than a reasonable precaution against a known danger.

It is not like wearing a seatbelt because there is no possible risk to wearing a seatbelt as there is by having a foreign substance injected into my body.

It Aint Necessarily So said:
But we are doing it for others as well. You will benefit from my vaccination and those of others who took it. My wife and I are each protecting the other by both being vaccinated.

I am not going to allow anyone to try to make me look selfish because I do not want to get the vaccine. I am not hurting anyone since I am not coming into contact with anyone.

stvdv · Mar 22, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Why are most people afraid to admit they are afraid of the virus, it is drop dead obvious.

Nice wordplay; indeed they are just afraid to drop dead

Trailblazer said:
Accusing those who don't take the vaccine of having fear is just a way to deflect

Indeed, it's the way of the weak ones though

Trailblazer said:
Why do they care if I take the vaccine? I'm nit hurting them by not taking it.

Some have the false idea that you can infect them, even if they are vaccinated

They have totally no faith or trust in vaccines. I didn't take this vaccine, but I do have at least faith and confidence, that if I take a good scientifically approved vaccine, that I won't get the disease the vaccine is meant to protect me from

Again, those people have so much fear, that they don't even dare to rely on their vaccine. And those accuse me for not have taken it. Next time I'll tell them they are the scared delusional ones, and better mind their own business.
@stvdvRF

Trailblazer · Mar 22, 2021

stvdv said:
Some have the false idea that you can infect them, even if they are vaccinated

That's how frightened they are... Nothing will take that fear away and they can't understand why I am not afraid even with no vaccination.

A bit of a health scare

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