Christians! Do you despise Abominations? There's only one left to hate....which?

oldbadger said:

Shellfish poison paralysis is one of the most deadly sicknesses of all.

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Wow, I didn't know that!

BTW, my father was once hospitalized when he had a horrific allergic reaction to snow crab, so excitement like this seems to run in the family.

KenS said:

I know this is your personal viewpoint. I also find it interesting how we want to tell the disciples what to write when each writer had his specific purpose for writing. In that they were all with Jesus, and all the gospels mention the disciple of John, why would I think the way you suggest? No... all the gospels mention that John was there amongst them.

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John the disciple was there alright.
Apostle John didn't mention any of the exciting experiences of disciple John, had no clue about what-happened-when-where was very much alive in the second century and could not tell us about the details of that last week on Jerusalem.

Try it yourself. See if you can tell me what Jesus and all did on the first day that they went in to Jerusalem , that last week. John can't tell you.

oldbadger said:

John the disciple was there alright.
Apostle John didn't mention any of the exciting experiences of disciple John, had no clue about what-happened-when-where was very much alive in the second century and could not tell us about the details of that last week on Jerusalem.

Try it yourself. See if you can tell me what Jesus and all did on the first day that they went in to Jerusalem , that last week. John can't tell you.

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And where do you get the information that the Apostle John and the disciple John were not one in the same? And I will ask him when I get to Heaven!

KenS said:

And where do you get the information that the Apostle John and the disciple John were not one in the same? And I will ask him when I get to Heaven!

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From the gospels themselves

Please tell me how apostle John didn't know any accurate details about Jesus and his disciples.

Surely he would have made mention of Jesus on the mountain, or accurate details of when Jesus and the disciples ransacked the Temple bazaar and picketed the Temple Courts? And for a disciple to live over one hundred years ,. Wow! What do you think the average age of a Galilee peasant would have been back then?

oldbadger said:

From the gospels themselves

Please tell me how apostle John didn't know any accurate details about Jesus and his disciples.

Surely he would have made mention of Jesus on the mountain, or accurate details of when Jesus and the disciples ransacked the Temple bazaar and picketed the Temple Courts? And for a disciple to live over one hundred years ,. Wow! What do you think the average age of a Galilee peasant would have been back then?

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Again, I know you want him to write specifically what you wanted him to write about... but I just can't help wonder... did you ever relay that request to him?

So, other that broad opinions, you still haven't given me concrete evidence/

So, back to the OP... The New Testament started after the death of Jesus Christ so the Mosaic Law isn't what we go by.

oldbadger said:

Here we go, Folks....... it's Deuteronomy!

I understand that Deuteronomy roughly means 'second reading' but many of its laws are unique to it for some reason.


Deuteronomy {7:25} The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold [that is] on them, nor take [it] unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it [is] an abomination to the LORD thy God. {7:26} Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: [but] thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it [is] a cursed thing.

Silver and gold, eh? So this law was only for the Jews, is that right?
I expect a few theists have some of that! I've got some but Deists don't count here, we can be really really wicked 'cos our Deity is too big to bother with us. *smug feeling*
But in any case don't worry because if you do collect any then you will not go to hell. A Gold coin purchased each month can make a pension!

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I think you stretch this one pretty far out. It wasn't just gold and silver... it was the gold and silver created in the image of foreign gods.

This is a "love God with all of your heart" issue. We know it wasn't just gold and silver because God told the Israeli women to get the gold and silver (past due wages) from the Egyptian families. If we look throughout the TaNaKh, it is consistent.

So coveting is wrong if it is before God or you are coveting your neighbor's stuff (love your neighbor not covet your neighbor).

oldbadger said:

And two more!


Deuteronomy{14:3} Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing.
....or you could get sick! Easy! Onwards.....! Next!


Deuteronomy{17:1} Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God [any] bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, [or] any evilfavouredness: for that [is] an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

A handy law for the priesthood who flogged sacrificial animals, so the chances of your sacrifice being condemned was fairly high (in the time of Jesus). Another reason why the Baptist and Jesus thought that the Temple was a crock of corruption.

Onwards................

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of course, this isn't a Christian issue.

It wasn't necessarily the complete issue. But that is another story.

oldbadger said:

Moving gently forward >>>>>>>>>>>>> !

Deuteronomy{18:10} There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, {18:11} Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. {18:12} For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

These folks could gather massive attention which the priesthood wanted, and I guess that like today, some of them were frauds, but I have had a wonderful experience with a healer (1330 hrs GM, Monday 16th October 2017).
But none of them are going to hell!

So Christian Churches that treat Christian Spiritualists as evil might reconsider...?

On...... >>>>

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Good point! We should ALWAYS remember that we are all humans. We are all flawed. Of course that doesn't mean to make our children pass through the fire, of course. That is a love God AND your neighbor issue.

And, of course, it doesn't mean call an evil act "good" either. Otherwise we would be celebrating murder.

I say it this way... "A person can lie and one can call said person on it but don't call him/her a liar." One deals with the issue while the other is a judgment call.

KenS said:

Again, I know you want him to write specifically what you wanted him to write about... but I just can't help wonder... did you ever relay that request to him?

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Is that your only defence for what you believe in?
I have read the gospels, most carefully, and there is no doubt that apostle John who had a valuable bundle of information for his gospel didn't actually know when anything happened, and didn't know the amazing things that disciple John had experienced. Further to that he pretended that Jesus popped up and down to the Temple at whim, when in fact both he and the disciples saw it very rarely to the point that on their first day in Jerusalem (that last week) they literally went sightseeing all around the Temple. John wrote that the 'The Jews' were the scheming, plotting, hating enemy of Jesus when of course it was the Priesthood who wanted him gone. It goes on........ the evidence is crushing.

So, other that broad opinions, you still haven't given me concrete evidence.

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How much does a Christian in denial of such facts require?
Just read the gospels for yourself, Ken. And take in every line and verse. Then consider.

So, back to the OP... The New Testament started after the death of Jesus Christ so the Mosaic Law isn't what we go by.

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That is a wonderful sentence which I will keep if I may.
Many Christians need to see that from time to time.

So that leaves you (so you tell me) with only two laws, both based upon love, so I won't expect any more nonsense and negative rubbish to be written about LGBT+ folks, is that right?

KenS said:

Good point! We should ALWAYS remember that we are all humans. We are all flawed. Of course that doesn't mean to make our children pass through the fire, of course. That is a love God AND your neighbor issue.

And, of course, it doesn't mean call an evil act "good" either. Otherwise we would be celebrating murder.

I say it this way... "A person can lie and one can call said person on it but don't call him/her a liar." One deals with the issue while the other is a judgment call.

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So, how does that leave your thoughts about Christian Spiritualists, healers and seers?

oldbadger said:

Is that your only defence for what you believe in?
I have read the gospels, most carefully, and there is no doubt that apostle John who had a valuable bundle of information for his gospel didn't actually know when anything happened, and didn't know the amazing things that disciple John had experienced. Further to that he pretended that Jesus popped up and down to the Temple at whim, when in fact both he and the disciples saw it very rarely to the point that on their first day in Jerusalem (that last week) they literally went sightseeing all around the Temple. John wrote that the 'The Jews' were the scheming, plotting, hating enemy of Jesus when of course it was the Priesthood who wanted him gone. It goes on........ the evidence is crushing.


How much does a Christian in denial of such facts require?
Just read the gospels for yourself, Ken. And take in every line and verse. Then consider.


That is a wonderful sentence which I will keep if I may.
Many Christians need to see that from time to time.

So that leaves you (so you tell me) with only two laws, both based upon love, so I won't expect any more nonsense and negative rubbish to be written about LGBT+ folks, is that right?

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I’m not trying to defend anything - just pointing out the absurdity of your position You want John to write the way you want him to.

There is so much that is the same in John’s gospel

Overlapping events
John the Baptist’s ministry, Jesus feeding of over 5000 people, Jesus walking on water, Jesus’ friendship with Mary and Martha of Bethany, and many others.

Overlapping sayings
In addition to the events, there are saying of Jesus that are shared with the Synoptics. A few examples are:

• Rebuilding the temple in three days (John 2:19//Mark 14:58)
• Prophets without honor (John 4:44//Mark 6:4)
• Receiving me and receiving the one who sent me (John 13:20//Matt 10:40)
• Predictions of betrayal (John 13:21-30, 38//Matt 14:18-22, 27-31)

Why defend what is obvious?

I have not started one thread on LGBT or spoken evil of those who choose to live their lives as such - but aren’t you, the pot, calling the kettle black as you post this rubbish?

oldbadger said:

Ha ha ha! Oh dear!
So you want to keep your silver and gold.....

Mark {10:25} It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for
a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Again......... Mark {10:25} It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Now, how will you adapt that verse to fit in with any material desires which you may hold?


Does that leave you clear to make money?
Alright then, but 'loving neighbours' might need to extend a bit further than republican values promote. Loving your neighbour is about a social community, surely?

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WOW - did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

If you are going to quote scripture - please don’t cherry pick

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

1). The context is TRUST in reaches
2) then the context of “who then can be saved” denotes that even THEY were in the lot
3) with God all things are possible

you see, when you have a God’s Kingdom mentality you know that everything you have belongs to God and you trust Him to tell you what to do with mammon.

you can’t help the poor if you don’t have mammon.

oldbadger said:

So, how does that leave your thoughts about Christian Spiritualists, healers and seers?

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Not sure what the question is asking.

We are all spiritual
God still uses people to heal (and uses doctors too)
And all prophecies should be judged when anyone is used to see into then future

And the NT still started, as in any last NEW will and TESTAMENT at the death of the testator.

KenS said:

I’m not trying to defend anything - just pointing out the absurdity of your position You want John to write the way you want him to.

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Sorry, but that's untrue.

There is so much that is the same in John’s gospel

Overlapping events
John the Baptist’s ministry, Jesus feeding of over 5000 people, Jesus walking on water, Jesus’ friendship with Mary and Martha of Bethany, and many others.

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Is that it?
John repeated those stories, he just didn't know what the disciple John had done.
Strange.

Overlapping sayings
In addition to the events, there are saying of Jesus that are shared with the Synoptics. A few examples are:

• Rebuilding the temple in three days (John 2:19//Mark 14:58)
• Prophets without honor (John 4:44//Mark 6:4)
• Receiving me and receiving the one who sent me (John 13:20//Matt 10:40)
• Predictions of betrayal (John 13:21-30, 38//Matt 14:18-22, 27-31)

Why defend what is obvious?

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Is that it?
What a pitiful list.
John even stretched Mark's 11-12 month campaign our to three years ... So much fiddling.

And he turned a scheming priesthood in to THE JEWS. Wicked, imo.

I have not started one thread on LGBT or spoken evil of those who choose to live their lives as such - but aren’t you, the pot, calling the kettle black as you post this rubbish?

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That's good to read.
I don't expect you to, either.

KenS said:

WOW - did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

If you are going to quote scripture - please don’t cherry pick

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

1). The context is TRUST in reaches
2) then the context of “who then can be saved” denotes that even THEY were in the lot
3) with God all things are possible

you see, when you have a God’s Kingdom mentality you know that everything you have belongs to God and you trust Him to tell you what to do with mammon.

you can’t help the poor if you don’t have mammon.

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Do you do admit that Jesus held up socialist values?

KenS said:

Not sure what the question is asking.

We are all spiritual
God still uses people to heal (and uses doctors too)
And all prophecies should be judged when anyone is used to see into then future

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So you don't have any negative opinions about Christian Spiritualists, healers and clairvoyants?
Excellent.

KenS said:

And the NT still started, as in any last NEW will and TESTAMENT at the death of the testator.

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The real story started with the Baptist.