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Minimum 15 dollar wage. Meet back burner.

tarasan

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Twilight Hue said:
Couple of weeks ago but there it is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/15-minimum-wage-decision-biden-covid-relief-bill.html


Moderate Democrats shoot down $15 minimum wage


Of course its still top priority. Right?

How many years has it been now promised since it was first proposed?

Thoughts?

Think it will happen? Or not?
Click to expand...

Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them. We face the same issues in the uk too our minimum wage actually isn't the "actual" minimum wage.
 
VoidCat

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
I would like the miniumim wage to be raised but when will it be illegal for disabled people to be paid below minimum wage? Last I checked its legal to pay disabled people below the $7.25 wage here in NC.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
tarasan said:
Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them. We face the same issues in the uk too our minimum wage actually isn't the "actual" minimum wage.
Click to expand...
I think it would be more appropriate to determine a living wage as opposed to a static rate.

Too bad there is no such thing as an adjustable income that keeps up with inflation.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
Couple of weeks ago but there it is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/15-minimum-wage-decision-biden-covid-relief-bill.html


Moderate Democrats shoot down $15 minimum wage


Of course its still top priority. Right?

How many years has it been now promised since it was first proposed?

Thoughts?

Think it will happen? Or not?
Click to expand...

We, Calif, had some local governments impose it. Some restaurants/stores picked up move the next county/city over.

I fear what $15 min wage will do is simply increase the cost of living. So while the dollar take home is more dollars, what you can actually buy with that money will become less.

You may be making $15 per hour but it will feel like $10 per hour per what you can afford to buy with it.
IOW you cannot advance in life by depending on an increase in min wage.
 
Quetzal

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
Too bad there is no such thing as an adjustable income that keeps up with inflation.
Click to expand...
Sure there is, but the burden rests on the employer. The problem is that goes against capitalist principles: why should I pay you more when I don't have to?
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Nakosis said:
We, Calif, had some local governments impose it. Some restaurants/stores picked up move the next county/city over.

I fear what $15 min wage will do is simply increase the cost of living. So while the dollar take home is more dollars, what you can actually buy with that money will become less.

You may be making $15 per hour but it will feel like $10 per hour per what you can afford to buy with it.
IOW you cannot advance in life by depending on an increase in min wage.
Click to expand...
It's a nasty catch 22.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
tarasan said:
Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them.
Click to expand...
... though raising the minimum wage also increases a company's ability to afford it, since minimum wage increases have a stimulus effect.

What business wouldn't love for their customers to suddenly have a big increase in their disposable income?
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Nakosis said:
We, Calif, had some local governments impose it. Some restaurants/stores picked up move the next county/city over.
Click to expand...
This is why it works best if the minimum wage is set nationally.

I fear what $15 min wage will do is simply increase the cost of living. So while the dollar take home is more dollars, what you can actually buy with that money will become less.

You may be making $15 per hour but it will feel like $10 per hour per what you can afford to buy with it.
IOW you cannot advance in life by depending on an increase in min wage.
Click to expand...
Why would you expect this? It seems to fly in the face of basic economics.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
This is why it works best if the minimum wage is set nationally.
Click to expand...

That is what I was thinking.

Why would you expect this? It seems to fly in the face of basic economics.
Click to expand...

Minimum wage was $3.10 when I started. Fine for myself, not enough for a family.
$15 an hour I could see making it myself but not really supporting a family on it.

So if I had kept with the minimum wage my entire life I don't really see that anything would have changed as far as my ability to afford a better life.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
exchemist said:
No. It is considerably more specific than that. As I'm sure you are well aware. ;)
Click to expand...

I find myself confused a lot of times about political policy.

The increased minimum is an increase in government authority. Just curious if people see this as a necessity. Can socialism be done without an increase in governmental authority?
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
tarasan said:
Minimum wages are tricky as they can't be so high that businesses can no longer afford to pay them. We face the same issues in the uk too our minimum wage actually isn't the "actual" minimum wage.
Click to expand...
Businesses have always claimed that. But the evidence, from the various minimum wage laws that have been tried, seems to be that this is not so. Businesses that are very exposed to labour costs may put up prices, but since their competitors have the same issue it does not affect their competitiveness, and thus does not affect their viability. What it may do is force the business to get more value out of each employee. That is called raising productivity and is generally considered a good thing, economically.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Quetzal said:
Sure there is, but the burden rests on the employer. The problem is that goes against capitalist principles: why should I pay you more when I don't have to?
Click to expand...
Sounds self defeating. The less income the less products and services are utilized.

Guess you could say I'm slowly coming around to seeing a different take on the minimum wage and it's importance to keep people spending and keeping the economy healthy. ;0]
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
Nakosis said:
I find myself confused a lot of times about political policy.

The increased minimum is an increase in government authority. Just curious if people see this as a necessity. Can socialism be done without an increase in governmental authority?
Click to expand...
Don't be disingenuous. You can increase government authority for all sorts of reasons. Fascists and other right wing authoritarians always exert tight government control, for instance.

Socialism is, as you know, about state ownership of the means of production. Obviously that implies massive government control of almost everything in the economy. But, by the same token, an increase in government authority does not constitute or imply socialism, unless it is directed towards the ownership of the means of production.

Now, what governments are proposing they should take over all the business enterprises? N Korea, yes. Venezuela, perhaps, in part. China, in the past, yes, but now? Where else? Anywhere?
 
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Quetzal

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
Sounds self defeating. The less income the less products and services are utilized.

Guess you could say I'm slowly coming around to seeing a different take on the minimum wage and it's importance to keep people spending and keeping the economy healthy. ;0]
Click to expand...
That's the whole trick. If the federal minimum wage never increased, there is zero incentive to increase wages. Business owners simply won't do it (why would they?). Of course, if you have an in-demand skill, you can negotiate a bit more, but that isn't the demographic of people we are talking about.
 
tarasan

tarasan

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
... though raising the minimum wage also increases a company's ability to afford it, since minimum wage increases have a stimulus effect.

What business wouldn't love for their customers to suddenly have a big increase in their disposable income?
Click to expand...

It stops smaller businesses from opening, if u don't have the revenue to pay the wages it's a non starter. These things won't stop the big companies that can absorb the cost for little companies it will stop them from opening or they will just increase the price of things to keep up. And if wages increase causes the prices to increase what's the point?
 
tarasan

tarasan

Well-Known Member
exchemist said:
Businesses have always claimed that. But the evidence, from the various minimum wage laws that have been tried, seems to be that this is not so. Businesses that are very exposed to labour costs may put up prices, but since their competitors have the same issue it does not affect their competitiveness, and thus does not affect their viability. What it may do is force the business to get more value out of each employee. That is called raising productivity and is generally considered a good thing, economically.
Click to expand...

So it increases the prices of things? So what's the point in increasing the wages if things will get more expensive, just seems like they are back to square one.

I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be a minimum wage just that is something that should be though of with care
 
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