Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Skywalker said:

That is why is the suffering servant is the Messiah, the Messiah would have to be God.

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dybmh said:

Dude, Isaiah 40 and others....

Deuteronomy 4...

God has no form or likeness, none to whom can be compared...

This is repeated over and over again.

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Jesus was among the three visitors who came to Abraham’s tent.
Genesis 18 is an amazing chapter of Scripture. Abraham, the father of what would become the children of Israel, and heir to the promise that his lineage would bring forth the Messiah, met The Lord in person. Prior to this point, Abraham had audible conversations with God, who spoke to the patriarch from Heaven. But in chapter 18, God literally shows up at Abraham’s doorstep:
And the LORD appeared unto [Abraham] in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And [Abraham] lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetch a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. – Genesis 18:1-8.

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Skywalker said:

You mentioned Jesus had spiritual ecstasy. That concept is more consistent with the dervishes and gnosticism, than the Bible.

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dybmh said:

He spoke, he was not silent, he was not mute. That's verse 7. He never has children, that's verse 10. Chapter 53, is not about him.

But let's zoom out.

Have you noticed that the Book of Isaiah says that God alone is the savior? This is reinforced multiple times using diverse language throughout the book. In addition to this, there is a "suffering servant". That means that if Jesus is the suffering servant, then he can't be God or the savior. Trying to equate these three renders the verses about the suffering servant incoherent.

Because of this, it makes no sense at all to use Isaiah's suffering servant to justify salvation from the cross. According to Isaiah, salvation comes from God alone, not from the suffering servant.

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Therefore, contrary to the claims of these Muslim polemicists, the seed of Isaiah 53:10 are not biological offspring, but the spiritual brothers and sisters of the Servant whom he saves and justifies by bearing their sins on the cross!

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Harel13 said:

So you've never had a spiritual high? And since I've had, does that mean I'm a Jewish Gnostic?

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True Christianity is unique among the religions of the world in that it is a rational-historical faith. For the Christian, salvation is based on something entirely outside of man. Salvation is found in the faithfulness and perfect sacrifice of the Christ of history. Catholic and Eastern mystics claim to discover God in the depths of their being. The true Christian looks away from himself to the righteousness of Christ Jesus. Before God, Christ's satisfaction for sin is a reality that is all-sufficient. It does not need to be supplemented by any other reality. God's verdict of justification is not grounded on any state of being within the believing sinner, rather it is established on Christ Jesus alone. The principle that man can save himself by his experience and by his own life has been the foundation of every pagan religion, as it is of Catholicism. What is so sinister about the present communion of Rome with paganism is that it is contaminating our entire society.

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Skywalker said:

Seed refers to followers. Whose Seed Shall the Messiah See?

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dybmh said:

That's hypocritical.

If verses 8,9,11,12 are literal, then verses 7 and 10 are literal as well.

If verses 7 and 10 are symbolic, then verses 8,9,11,and 12 are symbolic as well.

In the first case, Jesus is not the suffering servant.
In the second case, there is no basis for Christian salvation theology.

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Skywalker said:

Abraham met Jesus. Is Jesus Christ The Angel of The Lord? – Finding Christ In The Old Testament

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Skywalker said:

The followers of God are his children.

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dybmh said:

The servant is Israel.

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Question: "What is spiritual Israel?"

Answer: The phrase spiritual Israel is used in two primary contexts. The first is as a reference to the entire body of Christian believers, in distinction to the political or racial people of Israel. Spiritual Israel is also sometimes used to suggest concepts related to replacement theology, in which the promises directed toward Israel are now given to the Church, instead.

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dybmh said:

That's a silly equivilance.

By the same uber-literal word games I assert that the Son of Man is not my savior based on Psalms 146:3.

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“God called unto him out of the midst of the bush..” – Exodus 3:4.

In Exodus chapter 3, Moses encounters God in a burning bush. This bush was burning with supernatural fire that did not consume the branches and bark of the bush while it burned. It was here that Moses received his mission to be the leader of the Israelites as God would judge their Egyptian slave masters with a series of plagues. And this passage leaves no doubt that the Angel of the Lord is indeed God:

Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. – Exodus 3:1-6.

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Skywalker said:

The Angel of the Lord who Moses talked to at the burning bush, was God. Is Jesus Christ The Angel of The Lord? – Finding Christ In The Old Testament

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dybmh said:

That's a silly equivilance.

By the same uber-literal word games I assert that the Son of Man is not my savior based on Psalms 146:3.

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Sometime in the sixth century BC the prophet Daniel received visions concerning future events, and in one of those visions he saw a heavenly Being in the likeness of a man coming to rule forever and representing the saints of God who would also share in that dominion:

“As my vision continued that night, I saw someone like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language worshiped him. His rule is eternal—it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed.” Daniel 7:13-14

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Skywalker said:

The term Son of Man is a reference to the Messiah.
Daniel's Son of Man as the Messiah

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dybmh said:

That's a silly equivilance.

By the same uber-literal word games I assert that the Son of Man is not my savior based on Psalms 146:3.

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Skywalker said:

The context of that verse is not about whether Jesus will die on the cross for our sins.

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Skywalker said:

Jesus was not about mysticism.

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Harel13 said:

And that has nothing to do with what I asked.

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dybmh said:

The context of Genesis 18 is not about Jesus. Same with the burning bush.

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In verse 3, when Abraham used the phrase “My LORD”, the Hebrew term is Adonnai, which is a title only used for God. So the Bible is clear that not only did Abraham see and speak to God and the two angelic beings present with Him, he ate with them and had his servants clean their feet. So how can we be sure this was God The Son? In addition Jesus’ own testimony that “no man hath seen the Father..” we can also look to the description of Jesus in Scripture. Colossians 2 says of Jesus: “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Jesus is the physical form of the triune God.

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Skywalker said:

You mentioned Jesus having spiritual ecstasy.

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