Yahcubs777
Active Member
You say that like nobody else's uses it.
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Father alone is God
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You say that like nobody else's uses it.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Nonsense. You said, "It is the KJV. It isn't a mormon bible." All I did was say that the Mormons use the KJV. I didn't even imply that we're the only ones who do. Don't be so touchy.
Yahcubs777
Active Member
Its not specifically their bible. Just like catholics have their catechism, yet caltholics use the KJV as well. Even non denominational people, people that aren't "christians" might use the KJV bible. So your comment makes no sense.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
And yet somehow, you seemed to read into my comment the implication that I thought it was.
Of course it did. I can't help it if it was over your head.
It is like the Image in a Mirror. God is the Sun, the Holy Spirit is the Ray's from the Sun, the perfect Mirror is the Messenger, the 'Self of God'. Thus Christ is the name on the Mirror the Holy Spirit is the reflection we see in the mirror and what gives us life.
That is why when God puts that Mirror amongst us, we see the same One God, in the Name God has chosen to call the Mirror. Thus to a Baha'i the Father is Bahaullah, at one time that Mirror was known as Adam.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Because Jesus was the Son of God, but a Son is not the Father.
If He did, that is because Jesus could do miracles, because He was a Manifestation of God.
“The Holy Manifestations are the sources of miracles and the originators of wonderful signs. For Them, any difficult and impracticable thing is possible and easy. For through a supernatural power wonders appear from Them; and by this power, which is beyond nature, They influence the world of nature. From all the Manifestations marvelous things have appeared. “
Some Answered Questions
"He that has seen me, has seen the father" shows that "me" and the Father are two separate entities.
Jesus was a perfect mirror image of God, but an image projected on the mirror is not the same as that which projects that image.
Jesus was a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” (John 14:11, John 17:21) meaning that God the Father was visible and manifest in Jesus.
“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that the Manifestation of God, in this case Jesus, and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to the Manifestation of God, all His acts and doings, as well as whatever He ordains and forbids, is identical with the Will of God Himself.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Yahcubs777
Active Member
It seems there is alot of denominations, religious affliliations, Abrahamic branches, that have trickles of Light. For instance, this saying that youve brought here,
God is the Sun, the Holy Spirit is the Ray's from the Sun, the perfect Mirror is the Messenger, the 'Self of God'. Thus Christ is the name on the Mirror the Holy Spirit is the reflection we see in the mirror and what gives us life.
What im saying is, this can be explained further.
Mankind is a Spirit Being. The Spirit Being is not a ghost, and it is not formless; the Spirit has Spirit body, which is what shapes it. And the Spirit Being has anatomy. The Anatomy of Man is in the Spirit Being of the Man, and not his body. The body that is the Temple for the Man, is the body takes after the anatomy of the Man. So for example.
This Mortal body is not the Temple for Man. This is the kind of body that was needed for Procreation; but its not the original body of Man. The Spirit Being has no anus, it has no lungs, it has not any kidney, or heart of flesh, or any of the vital organs of the mortal body. And this is showing that its not the body that the GOD coupled for Father Adam and Mother Eve..
So getting to the point now: You said the Holy Spirit is the rays of the Sun, the Perfect mirrior is the messenger, the self of God.
Every person that GOD sent his or her Spirit Being into the earth to pick up a physical body from the womb of their biological mother, is a holy Spirit.
For unto us, a child is born, a Son is Given.
This was a revelation of Isaiah, that GOD gives children. And he distinguished the child from the Son. He distinguished the physical body, from the Spirit Being of the Per---Son.
So every person that GOD programmed in the soul, and sent their Spirit Being into the womb of their biological mother, into the body that was forming, is a holy Spirit. For how can GOD send any other kind?
The Soul, is made of the dews of heaven. And it is the Spirit body hugger. The Soul is what mediates between the Spirit and the mortal body; a hypostatic union of Spirit and body, that needs the soul to keep the Spirit Being in the mortal body. Else by the Laws of the Spirit, and the laws of this terrestrial earth, the person would just come out of the body. For the Spirit can go through walls, and is invisible. The Spirit Being is not recognised by the Laws of this earth. Which is why we need a physical body to be here. So the Soul is what welds the Spirit and the body together, so the two can remain together in a hypostatic union.
The holy Spirit is lighted. It is brighter than the Sun. But it is masked by the soul. Else the Light of the persons Spirit Being would not be able to be contained. John the Baptist, was called a burning and shining light - referring to the light of the Sun.
The hypostatic union is caused because the Spirit Being is celestial, the body is terrestrial. And there is a gap betweeen the Spirit and body. And that gap is the blood and water in the body. When the blood and water have been completely drained from the body, the Soul reflects the anatomy of the Spirit Being, which is why transfiguration is possible at all. When that happens, this is the annointing of the holy Spirit, the persons Spirit Being, because the Light of the Persons Spirit Being is no longer conatined or masked by the blood and water in the body.
And then the saying has come to pass: What GOD has joined together, let no man tear asunder. Because the Spirit and the body have become one flesh,and can never die again (which means that the Spirit Being in the soul (which is a holy ghost) cannot ever be forced of the body again. Because that is what death is; when the Spirit Being programmed in the soul detatches from the physical body, and goes to the ghost world called Hell, where they will wait for the resurrection.
So the Soul is like the perfect Mirror, that reflects the image and anatomy of the Spirit Being, and enables the Spirit to quicken the body to transfigure in life - put on that anatomy that is being reflected from the Spirit Being.
But Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the Most Holy Spirit of GOD. He is not simply a messenger, HE is the GOD of creation. It is Father Adam, and Mother Eve, and all the children of the kingdom that are holy Spirits. HE is the Most Holy Spirit.
And thats why it is written: Be thou Holy, as GOD is Holy.
I shared this to you, because you seem to have an understanding. The christians here will be far from that.
Yahcubs777
Active Member
1. HE is not the Son of GOD At all. That birth into this world, lied about HIS true identity. The Son of GOD is Adam Luke 3:38.
2. HE did it to fulfil Psalms 23, and to show the people that HE is the GOD that fed their fathers in the wilderness.
3. Jesus HIs Pre-Eminence, in the shoes of the Son of GOD, was pointing to that Genesis 1:26 - Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness. And it was a Revelation for them, because they knew that Father Adam had died. So it was supposed to reveal to them that Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the GOD who coupled the body of HIS son, in HIS own image, and after HIS likeness
And the Proof is in the fact that lucifer not knowing who he was speaking to said: If thou be the Son of GOD. Why did he say this? It is because HE looked like Adam did in the fall.
I and my Father are one, was not written correctly, its not what HE said. Though Christians will stone me for this, but i will reveal it. What HE said was: The Father is the greater I. Just like HE said: Before Abraham I AM. That Abraham mentioned is Father Adam, not the Abraham who gave to birth to Isaac. But they didnt understand that, proving that they are NOT the seed of Abraham.
These are the same people HE said: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
These are Jews HE is speaking to. So what did HE mean by this? HE meant that their Spirit Being was not sent into the earth by GOD.
Before Adam, HE is GOD. For Adam is the Principal Ancestor of the Mankind Race, therefore, he is the father of Many.
In another place HE said: My Father has many mansions. Again, this was not written correctly. What is this supposed to mean? HIS Father is GOD according to Christians. So GOD has many Mansions? HE has the entire Creation if it so. That is a proof its not what HE said. What HE said is: In my Fatherhood state, I have many mansions.
When GOD wants to enter into a world or planet, heavens world or this terrestrial earth, HE must proceed from HIMSELF, Spirit from Spirit, body from body, to enter into that planet physically. Why? Because GOD is greater in size, in HIS capital size, that any world, or planet, celestial or terrestrial, that HE formed and hung on air. So HE needed to proceed from HIMSELF in a reduced size, which is why HE called HIMSELF as Jesus His Pre-Eminence, the least in the kingdom of GOD, pointing to the realm of Elohim, the Most Holy Trinity, that in that mode of Operation, HE is the least in terms of ability, not power or authority, but ability.
John 8:42
If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”
John 14:28
“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”
Because GOD in HIS son state, is the express image of the invisible GOD, and is the Archetype in image description of the GOD. While the body that Father Adam had coupled for him is after the image of GOD the Son, which is the Prototype in image description. So why is HE the least in the Son state? Because GOD in HIS Fatherhood state, is invisible, and greater in size than anything in creation. GOD in HIS Most Holy Spirit State, can be in trillions of places at once, doing trillions of things at once, and is also invisible. So the visible was called the least of the three.
So when GOD came into this earth, through the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Most Holy Spirit of GOD incubated on her womb, coupled the body that HE would take from her womb, and was birthed as men are birthed in this earth, which is the door, into this earth; the womb. And that birth lied about HIS true Identity.
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tigger2
Active Member
1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh")
As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”
Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”).Why do the best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16? - Dr. Frederick C. Grant; United Bible Societies (UBS); Murray J. Harris; A. T. Robertson; Daniel B. Wallace; etc.
"As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.
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The "Jesus and the Father are one" (John 10:30) 'proof' is explained by John 17:11, 22-23.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
I never said to sit beside. You need to re-read my posts. ( " hand" is not in the original) He is not sitting on the right hand side of God. He is sitting in his right as God. He is sitting in the power of God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks for pointing that out. I already have an explanation of that verse, and why it does not mean that Jesus is God, but now I have more proof that it does not mean that Jesus is God. So I took the time to look at John 17 and I saw some things I had net seen before.
In His parting words, Jesus prayed to the Father that those who believed on Him may be One with the Father just as He is One with the Father. That alone tells us that “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) does not mean that Jesus was God, because if that was so that would mean all the believers were also God.
“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means Jesus was “one with God” in the sense that He was very close to God, so it was AS IF they were One. In John 17:21 Jesus was praying that the believers would also be One with the Father and One with each after His departure from this earth. Jesus was calling for oneness of His followers as opposed to division.
John 17 KJV
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I'd never do that.
Yahcubs777
Active Member
If it were as if HE was one because of closeness, then it would be a lie to say they are one.
That supposition isn't contextual with the rest of the chapter; look at the way he responded quoting Psalms after hearing their interpretation of his words in verse 33. Did he deny their allegation, or did he not rather confirm their interpretation to be the correct one, otherwise he would have no reason to quote a verse about being called gods? Or maybe you think he just liked to talk about esoteric random intuitions with the Jewish people.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why?
Yahcubs777
Active Member
Because closeness doesn't mean the two are one. For example, when a Man and woman marry, they said that the Man shall cleave to his wife,and the two become one flesh.
If that is so, then why is salvation personal, even for a Man and his wife? he believes, she must also believe, else his belief can't save her. And two, they are separated in death. If they were one, they could not be separated.
But this verse was pointing to the relationship between the body, and the Spirit, and that the Spirit shall cleave to his body, and the two shall become one flesh. And what GOD has put together, let no man tear asunder. That the physical body must be joined to the Spirit Being of that body, so that death cannot part them anymore.
So, if Jesus His Pre-Eminence said: I and my father are one, but they are not one, then that is a lie. So either your interpretation is wrong, or its not true
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, my interpretation is just different from yours. In other words, you assign a certain meaning to the words I and my father are one and I assign another meaning to those words.
I believe my meaning is the correct meaning and the verse could also have other meanings, but you believe that only your meaning -- that Jesus is God -- is correct.
I believe......
“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that the Manifestation of God, in this case Jesus, and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to the Manifestation of God, all His acts and doings, as well as whatever He ordains and forbids, is identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares many of the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh, it does not say that God became flesh
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
tigger2
Active Member
1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh")
As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”
Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”).
Why do the best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16? - Dr. Frederick C. Grant; United Bible Societies (UBS); Murray J. Harris; A. T. Robertson; Daniel B. Wallace; etc.
"As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.
.............................
The "Jesus and the Father are one" (John 10:30) 'proof' is explained by John 17:11, 22-23.
Yahcubs777
Active Member
GOD is not a force. GOD is not an instinct. GOD is not power. GOD is not a creature. GOD is the Supreme Spirit Being. They wrote that GOD is love, no, HE isn't Love, HE loves. They wrote that GOD is light, no, HE created light.
GOD has HIS Own body. Proof, GOD has no ending and no beginning. It is written that GOD has HIS throne, does HIS Throne also have no beginnng? Or do you think its just a Great and Wonderful chair? HIS throne is HIS body. That is why they wrote: The body is the temple of the holy spirit, but they misinterpreted that to mean GOD's own Spirit, when it means the persons own Spirit; their own body is their own temple, for their own Spirit.
GOD is the Most Holy Spirit. The children of the kingdom are holy spirits, and tares are unholy spirits.
GOD has HIS own body; HE does not send HIS Spirit Being in pieces to live inside anyone, and then to say that knowing the kind of temple they have is perishable, is a height of Blasphemy.
They wrote in Joel 2: that GOD will pour out his Spirit upon all flesh. GODs Spirit Being is not the kind you can pour. This means HE will pour out Revelations, the waters of life; upon all flesh. So it has been badly misinterpreted and Apostle Peter and co did not help matters.
GOD has HIS Definite shape, and HIS own anatomy. GOD is the Supreme Spirit Being. So The Most Holy Spirit of GOD, is who took the body that HE coupled from the blessed Virgin Mary. It is the same GOD as the GOD of creation. Not a manifestation of HIS qualities. It is HIS incarnate Manifestation.
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