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Gentiles
- Thread starter schnepp51
- Start date
Hmmnn ::sad:
Exo 12:49 The same teaching is to apply equally to the citizen and to the foreigner living among you."
Num 15:16 The same Torah and standard of judgment will apply to both you and the foreigner living with you.'"
Num 15:29 no matter whether he is a citizen of Isra'el or a foreigner living with them. You are to have one law for whoever it is that does something wrong by mistake.
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The status of Ger Toshav that these verses pertain to do not exist today, even in Eretz Yisrael. Sadly. They have zero relevance outside of Israel, out here in Galut Edom. Inside, they will only come into force when the Jubilee is in force. Even then, there are many laws that the Ger Toshav is not obligated to perform (usually positive mitzvot) and some he would actually sin if he performed, like an Israelite. FYI
I define my status on what is written in the Bible not by what Judaism uses in the Talmud as definitions.
When Moshiach returns he will sort out the mess in Israel as we have it today.
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Breathe
Hostis humani generis
The written Torah itself implies at several points that there are more instructions that G-d gave to Moses that were not written down. My Rebbi used to say something like if everything that G-d told Moses was written down, it wouldn't be the 'Five books of Moses' it would be the 500 books of Moses, and instead of one ark to hold them we would have needed fifty.
100% agree, the laws of Jubilee and Ger Toshav among other things will just have to wait until the Messianic age come.
Sure! It's like this. If a Cohen (priest) performed the duties of a Cohen Gadol (high priest) that would be a sin on his part, as he's not really qualified or obligated to do so. Same goes for a Levite and Cohen, even though they're actually both descended from Levi ben Yakov. Same goes for a Jew who performs the duties of a Levite, even though both are Jews. Same goes for a non-Jew who performs the duties of a Jew, even if both are descendant of Avraham Avinu. Shabbat is only a obligation for Jews, and while a non-Jew can follow the negative laws (thou shalt not) all he wants, if he also follows the positive laws (thou shall) then he sins. Because the full observance of Shabbat is only for those who serve in a priest role, not a lay role. This does not make them 'better' or 'more important' in fact the opposite, it's a reminder they are servants both of HaShem and mankind, and is designed to instill humility.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Ahh, I get you. Very interesting.
So do priests perform more of a Shabbat than a lay Jewish person does?
And would you be willing to give a couple of examples of what a non-Jew is prohibited from doing during, for example, Shabbat?
Shermana
Heretic
I don't believe the "Noahide Laws" has any real basis and is just a Talmudic construct, even the books used to base it upon like Book of Jubilees has a different set. Although I do not know whether all the laws pertain only to the Holy Land or not. Jews are supposed to obey Sabbath regardless, and it says even the gentile sojourning among us must obey it, but does it apply outside the Holy Land? I don't know. I would guess so for those who graft themselves.
But my main concern is about "Christianity", those who try to say that Jesus taught the Law is not binding for anyone. That just infuriates me to the point of wanting such institutions totally ended.
But my main concern is about "Christianity", those who try to say that Jesus taught the Law is not binding for anyone. That just infuriates me to the point of wanting such institutions totally ended.
Thank you kindly Shermana , .....the blessing would be when my family would be allowed into the Kingdom of Yeshua, even as slaves.
This was specifically about the positive laws of Shabbat, not a blanket statement about all positive laws. Don't take it out of context.
Ahh, I get you. Very interesting.
So do priests perform more of a Shabbat than a lay Jewish person does?
And would you be willing to give a couple of examples of what a non-Jew is prohibited from doing during, for example, Shabbat?
When the Temple stood, the Cohen of course had many duties unique to his calling. Today, without a physical Temple, these duties are remembered by calling the Cohenim to make special blessings when the Torah is read in services.
A non-Jew could observe all negative mitzvot pertaining to Shabbat and possibly a few positive ones, but a Gentile would be prohibited from making any blessing or prayer which would proclaim that he is obligated to perform that action. Because of course, he is not so obligated.
I hope that helps clarify.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
SimoneQuinn
Member
I am finding lots of what they say infuriating now, I am trying to overlook it but it is so hard. I see so much now, I want to shout it from the rooftops. Instead I need to learn to be quiet. lol
G-d makes paths for certain peoples. That G-d made a path for Edom as we see with such hostility to Law is of no surprise, and actually I would expect nothing different. Knowing Edom. His path is not mine, but I don't attack it, as it's made so by design. JMHO
Re·den ist Sil·ber, Schwei·gen ist Gold
Freelance_Policeman
Member
Thus says Yahweh:
"Keep justice, and do righteousness, for soon my salvation will come, and my deliverance be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of Adam who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil.
"Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to Yahweh say, "Yahweh will surely seperate me from his people;" and let not the eunuch say, "See, I am a dry tree." For thus says Yahweh: "To the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that are pleasing to me and hold fast my covenant, I will give in my house and in my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.
"And to the foreigners who join themselves to Yahweh, to minister to him, to love Yahweh, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenantthese I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in the house of prayer; their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples."
The Lord Yahweh, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, declares, "I will gather others to him besides those already gathered."
"Keep justice, and do righteousness, for soon my salvation will come, and my deliverance be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of Adam who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil.
"Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to Yahweh say, "Yahweh will surely seperate me from his people;" and let not the eunuch say, "See, I am a dry tree." For thus says Yahweh: "To the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that are pleasing to me and hold fast my covenant, I will give in my house and in my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.
"And to the foreigners who join themselves to Yahweh, to minister to him, to love Yahweh, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenantthese I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in the house of prayer; their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples."
The Lord Yahweh, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, declares, "I will gather others to him besides those already gathered."
Jos 8:34 After this, he read all the words of the Torah, the blessing and the curse, according to everything written in the book of the Torah.
Jos 8:35 There was not a word of everything Moshe had ordered that Y'hoshua did not read before all Isra'el assembled, including the women, the little ones and the foreigners living with them.
I really have pitty on the poor children who had to stand there for hours app-on hours listening to your Talmud.