Just 43% of Americans Identify as Protestant

Subduction Zone · Mar 5, 2021

halbhh said:
Right: it's clear I hope, that wording -- because God exists, then there is -- must be -- more than only this mortal life in this temporary body. "God" implies a next life, whenever anyone used the word.

That's useful in discussions, because if someone, such as an atheist, uses the word "God" in a discussion, they are referring (even if they don't realize it) to the One Who makes death of this body into only "sleep" (the wording repeated in scripture, and used also by Jesus the Christ). Instantly we can see then that any attempt by atheists to accuse God of such terms as 'genocide' is illogical, as God is Himself the causation that the death of this mortal body is only a transition to what comes next, so it's not a final death. Sometimes I've tried to help some more open minded atheists realize what God did to those that perished in the Flood was much like the British Transportation of criminals to Australia in the 19th century (as we see in 1rst Peter chapter 3, v18-20) -- they were simply transported into being "spirits in prison" and later Christ Himself would come to proclaim the gospel to them! (1rst Peter chapters 3 and 4).

That is not so. You are only assuming that your "God" is the right one. There could be quite a few variations on God. It does not have to be the Christian one.

Ramen.

Nivek001 · Mar 5, 2021

halbhh said:
Right: it's clear I hope, that wording -- because God exists, then there is -- must be -- more than only this mortal life in this temporary body. "God" implies a next life, whenever anyone used the word.

That's useful in discussions, because if someone, such as an atheist, uses the word "God" in a discussion, they are referring (even if they don't realize it) to the One Who makes death of this body into only "sleep" (the wording repeated in scripture, and used also by Jesus the Christ). Instantly we can see then that any attempt by atheists to accuse God of such terms as 'genocide' is illogical, as God is Himself the causation that the death of this mortal body is only a transition to what comes next, so it's not a final death. Sometimes I've tried to help some more open minded atheists realize what God did to those that perished in the Flood was much like the British Transportation of criminals to Australia in the 19th century (as we see in 1rst Peter chapter 3, v18-20) -- they were simply transported into being "spirits in prison" and later Christ Himself would come to proclaim the gospel to them! (1rst Peter chapters 3 and 4).

Thanks for the clarification.

Hockeycowboy · Mar 5, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
I would be forced to, and willingly would without obligation, report such a **** parent to the authorities over such a heinous case of abuse having planned that and made it so it had to be. I'd do what I could to make sure that monster is never able to harm another child.
And it makes no sense to be upset over it. Jesus didn't die, he didn't go away, he had a rotten day on Earth and--depending on the denomination--spent one lousy weekend in Hell before, as he and the father knew would happen--he returned and was healed and ok.
Jehovah has no right to be upset over things he planned and set up, over a corrupted system he has neglected to fix.

You’ve been taught lies — of course, that’s not your fault.

But only you can change that.

If you truly believe that .... then how in the world could the Apostle John - who no doubt knew the Scriptures and the meaning them better than you & I - ever reach the conclusion that “God is love”?

Shadow Wolf · Mar 5, 2021

Hockeycowboy said:
You’ve been taught lies — of course, that’s not your fault.

But only you can change that.

If you truly believe that .... then how in the world could the Apostle John - who no doubt knew the Scriptures and the meaning them better than you & I - ever reach the conclusion that “God is love”?

How did anyone ever conclude someone like Putin is a great guy?
A better question is why would the Bible not say great things about the deity it claims is one and supreme?

thomas t · Mar 6, 2021

I believe in life after death.

Shadow Wolf said:
Reality is it makes zero sense to have someone else pay the price for your mistakes.

If it's a gift, a free gift that someone else offers to you: paying your debt... this is out of love then.

Shadow Wolf said:
Reality is, how this "plan of forgiveness" came into fruition can be very shocking and disturbing to a child, from the Christs death, the idea of sin, and eternal punishment.

eternal punishment is not for children (having Christian patrents at least), this is at least how I understand the two verses of my last verse.

Shadow Wolf said:
We are discussing a situation where the kid is not Christian.
And, according to some Christian views even unbaptised infants go to Hell.

These topics do not belong into children's ears, in my view. See above. Even if some Christians might disagree here.
But my point was this: if the parents are Christian, the child is sanctified (says the verse quoted in my last post). So there is no point for Christian parents to let their children know about hell.
I hope this is clearer now.

Shadow Wolf said:
That would mean god is far more wicked and savage than previously thought, as now he has us as automatons with no will who have to do what god intended us to do. That means, if we are not autonomous, then it is Jehovah who made it so that I will say "**** Jehovah." That wasn't me. I'm not autonomous. It was Jehovah who doesn't let us be that way but apparently only gives us the illusion we are, but we are only puppets to him.

No God is not wicked.
Even not autonomous persons can sin.
Actually, we do have free will, as I see it. That does not mean we are autonomous.
Also, if you're helped, even to an extent that you're dependent on that help... this does not mean you lose free will.
This is at least how I see the issue.

If you're getting help by someone up to the point that you lose your autonmy for a certain matter, this does not rule out that you can be guilty.

Sorry for being late in replying. Had a problem with ,my computer, but a friend fixed it.

Sand Dancer · Mar 8, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
I have to go with He simply doesn't care to get involved.

Standoffish, eh? Lazy? Apathetic?

SeekingAllTruth · Mar 8, 2021

Thirza Fallen said:
Standoffish, eh? Lazy? Apathetic?

It's actually much simpler than that: God just plain doesn't give a damn about us.

Hockeycowboy · Mar 8, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
A better question is why would the Bible not say great things about the deity it claims is one and supreme?

That’s a very good issue!
Why is that?

Why would the Bible, claiming to be written by a God of love, reveal that He had people killed?
Because Jehovah God is candid. He doesn’t hide His activity.

On that basis, alone, it should impel us to consider that it is truth, and spend time meditating on it, figuring out why He did such things, in light of Deuteronomy 32:4.

I’m sure glad I took the time! And still do.

SeekingAllTruth · Mar 8, 2021

Hockeycowboy said:
That’s a very good issue!
Why is that?

Why would the Bible, claiming to be written by a God of love, reveal that He had people killed?
Because God is candid. He doesn’t hide His activity.

On that basis, alone, it should impel us to consider that it is truth, and spend time meditating on it, figuring out why He did such things, in light of Deuteronomy 32:4.

I’m sure glad I took the time! And still do.

Can God lie?

Apparently yes, He can.

To no less than three prophets God said He would dry up the Nile River.

I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken. Ezekiel 30:12

The river shall be wasted and dried up. All who cast hooks into the Nile; those who throw nets on the water will pine away. Isaiah 19: 5,8

The waves of the sea shall be smitten, and all the depths of the Nile dried up. Zechariah10:11

The Nile never dried up---ever!

God lied.

Shadow Wolf · Mar 9, 2021

Hockeycowboy said:
That’s a very good issue!
Why is that?

Why would the Bible, claiming to be written by a God of love, reveal that He had people killed?
Because God is candid. He doesn’t hide His activity.

On that basis, alone, it should impel us to consider that it is truth, and spend time meditating on it, figuring out why He did such things, in light of Deuteronomy 32:4.

I’m sure glad I took the time! And still do.

The question was why would the Bible not say great things about Jehovah?

Hockeycowboy · Mar 9, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
Can God lie?

Apparently yes, He can.

To no less than three prophets God said He would dry up the Nile River.

I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken. Ezekiel 30:12

The river shall be wasted and dried up. All who cast hooks into the Nile; those who throw nets on the water will pine away. Isaiah 19: 5,8

The waves of the sea shall be smitten, and all the depths of the Nile dried up. Zechariah10:11

The Nile never dried up---ever!

God lied.

Jumping to conclusions that ridicule the Bible (like implying God lied), without studying it’s context — it’s entire context — only reveals a lack of knowledge about it....

What can the words “water” or “waters” mean in Scripture? The Bible itself tells us... Read Revelation 17 1, where it says the harlot “sits on many waters.” Is it literal? Nope..
Read Vs.15.

This is why meditation on Scripture is important. Rather than just quickly & rashly jumping to conclusions.

Take care, my cousin.

PS: Your Zechariah verse...how can a person ‘smite’ “waves of the sea”? It must be symbolic of something else.

Just 43% of Americans Identify as Protestant

Subduction Zone

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thomas t

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