Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And you had to once again quote out of context. Naughty, naughty.
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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles
- Thread starter SeekingAllTruth
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You do not appear to understand logical fallacies. I would suggest that you do not try to apply them. No strawman argument. Try again.
Quoting out of context is almost always a dishonest debating technique. One should avoid doing it. Also editing a post after the fact is not a proper technique. Avoid that as well please.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh my, another term that you do not appear to understand.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Context here.
"Please, no, only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it. And Jesus also says he is not God in the Bible. If you use the Bible to confirm that he claims to be God, then you also have to accept that he denies being God."
Proof of bolded sentence please.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I understand the term. You obviously do not.
I can hardly do otherwise than address your logical fallacies. Your posts are flooded with them and I would like to help, if you will allow me.
Take time to do some research on why the strawman fallacy gets its name; then read your post again and you may understand.
You don't have to admit that you are wrong, but do try to learn why you are wrong.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Only if one reads it literally and emotionally, as you do.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No need, quoted out of context. Refer to the previous sentence. Please try again.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, no no, that is clearly not my error. I have always pointed out that treating that story literally paints God that way. I don't see how you can possibly get things so backwards all of the time. You are once again trying to make a post say what you want it to say and not what it says because you cannot refute it as written.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, you clearly lack such an understanding. I made no logical fallacies, You can only try to falsely interpret posts.
By the poor logic that you are using the fifteen verses that say "there is no God" in the Bible tell us that there is no God. This is your error not mine. I do not quote out of context.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
.
Only if you read literally, as you are doing here. I don't know why you fail to understand this. (Well, I do, but that's for another time).
It's as if you don't understand that the words you have put together have meaning.
Or perhaps you just forgot to insert the words in bold?
"The story in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, if read literally, portray your God as evil and incompetent".
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I am not using poor logic and, if read in context, the Bible does not say that there is no God. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you will begin to make sense, SZ.
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samtonga43
Well-Known Member
No need to 'try again', SZ. It is obvious (or should be) to all but your good self.
You say that only the Bible says that at best. That is not Jesus saying it.
You state the bolded words as a fact, but you have no proof.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Yes I think I have heard all of those verses which ignore the fact that Jesus was (and still is a man) and has a God (since His Father became His God when He became a man-Ps 22:10) and Jesus laid aside His God "powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men". He became mortal and was given power from God to perform miracles etc.
So no, Jesus is not saying in those places that He is not God.
The claim to be the Son of God was a claim to equality with God.
Thomas got it right when He said to Jesus "My Lord and My God". (John 20:28)
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is my point exactly. As I pointed out you respond to what you want people to have said instead of what they actually say. You just did it again.
I only use a literal interpretation to fight a literal interpretation. You do not seem to get that. Just as you did not understand how my use of the " there is no God" quotes would be doing exactly the same as you are.
Don't pretend that you understand something where your false accusations prove that you do not.
Here is a hint. Don't edit posts when you quote them. Technically it is probably against the TOS. When you put bold print into a quote that did not have it that is editing. Quite often the correction to your claim is already there in the parts that you left as they were.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Actually the best explanation is that Jesus was only a man. And I am well aware of the Trinity argument. That is an idea invented to explain some of the problems with the Bible. It is not an original teaching. It is one of the few points where I will agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses. It was not invented until hundreds of years after the event.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Do you not understand that that statement was an observation? It needs no "proof". That is why context matters. You will not find any confirmation of the Jesus myths outside of the Bible. At best, and even some of these have been shown to be fraudulent, one has claims that Jesus existed and even that he was crucified.
This is why you really need to quit quoting out of context. Using your technique I could claim that there is no God because the Bible says so fifteen times.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That you are using poor logic is shown by your inability to understand what was written. And your penchant for altering quotes confirms it.
What is so humorous is that you once again have to try to change what I said about the fact it says there is no God fifteen times. Oh my!
Are you sure that you are not just an atheist making fun of theists?
Brian2
Veteran Member
John 16:12 I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. 13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.
I guess I see it as one of those things the disciples of Jesus could not bear to hear at that time. They did not have a fully worked out doctrine of the trinity but they were the ones who taught that Jesus is the Son of God and equal to His Father and they were the ones who called Him God and worshipped Him.
If He was a created angel He would not have allowed them to do that and would have said stop, just as the angel in Revelations said to John when he wanted to worship him.
ALL THINGS that have come into existence have come into existence through Him. John 1:3
Jesus was not created and did not come into existence at any time.
He is the ruler of creation. (see Rev 3:14, the first in priority over creation, see Col 1:15,16)
He has the name above all names.(Phil 2:9) He is Jehovah just like His dad and together with the Holy Spirit they are the One God.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I know what the Bible says. I am not impressed by it at all The Jesus is God claims come almost exclusively from the Gospel of John. Stories tend to grow with the telling. And the last Gospel written has the biggest stories in it. That what is most likely the least accurate gospel is the one that teaches Jesus is God should give you pause.