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Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Yes, it ignores the belief that ones will be filled later because that belief is inconsistent with the entirety of Judaism.

Truth and lies are always mixed. I believe that the Jewish belief that there are two Messiahs is based on Old Testament prophecies that talk about the second coming of the Messiah. Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah?"

Answer:
The Old Testament does prophesy the second coming of Christ, also referred to as the second advent of the Messiah. Some Old Testament prophecies concern the first advent, when Christ was born as a human being. Others concern the second advent, which is the ultimate triumph of this Messiah. It’s important to remember that prophecy does not describe the future in the same detail as history describes the past. So, while the prophecies of the Old Testament certainly describe both the first and second advents, most early interpretations of these prophecies melded them into a single event. Particularly during the years leading up to Jesus’ birth, it was assumed Messiah would be a political/military figure with an immediate worldly kingdom (Luke 19:11). In the light of Jesus’ ministry, it is possible to understand the true purpose of Christ and the real nature of His kingdom.

A careful look at Old Testament prophecies shows an underlying assumption of two advents. Micah 5:2 and Isaiah 7:14 predict the first advent. Separately, Isaiah 53:8–9 predicts a suffering and dying Messiah, who will be given life and greatness according to Isaiah 53:11–12. Daniel 9:26 describes the Messiah being killed after His appearance. At the same time, prophets such as Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) say this same “pierced” Messiah will be seen again by His enemies. So the clues are there.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
You have just changed your premise. Nice work.

What difference does it make if the Old Testament calls a person a Savior if it doesn't do it in a literal way? What does the Bible mean by “you are gods” / "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What does the Bible mean by 'you are gods' / 'ye are gods' in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34?"

Answer:
Let’s start with a look at Psalm 82, the psalm that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. The Hebrew word translated “gods” in Psalm 82:6 is Elohim. It usually refers to the one true God, but it does have other uses. Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from the next three verses that the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Calling a human magistrate a “god” indicates three things: 1) he has authority over other human beings, 2) the power he wields as a civil authority is to be feared, and 3) he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8.

This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.

Now, let’s look at how Jesus uses this passage. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?

In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5), was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it. Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God, and so led her into a lie. Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds—there is a sense in which influential men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
who said anything about "literal"? Your new premise was about "worship and glory."

Saying that the Old Testament calls people saviors in a certain sense is like saying that we are little gods. Verses have to be read in the proper context.

Are Christians “little gods”? | GotQuestions.org

Are Christians “little gods”?

Question: "Are Christians 'little gods'?"

Answer:
Some theological systems, such as Mormonism, teach the heresy that people can become gods in their own right. Roman Catholicism teaches what it calls the divinization of men: “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods” (The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 3, Paragraph I, I:460), although the Catholic meaning is that believers are united with Christ through the Eucharist. What has been popularly termed the “little god controversy” originated with Word of Faith pastors and teachers. The basic idea behind the controversy is that humans are actually divine, created “in the image of God” (Genesis 1:27) not only in having a soul, having dominion over the earth, or living in relationship with others, but by being of the same “spiritual class” as God Himself. Biblical theologians decry this concept as misguided at best, and heretical and cultic at worst.

The main tenet of Word of Faith is that, when we ask something of God in faith, He is compelled to fill the request. As “little gods,” our words have much power. This error is taught by some television evangelists, and its roots in Pentecostalism have made it more common in charismatic churches. The Word of Faith movement has a number of popular monikers including “name-it-claim-it,” “prosperity theology,” and “health and wealth gospel.”

The basis for the “little gods” claim is found in two Scripture passages. Psalm 82:6 reads, “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’” Jesus quotes this psalm in John 10:34, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I have said you are gods’?” However, both of these passages include explanations in the immediate context that clearly do notindicate human divinity. Psalm 82:6 is followed by a warning that “you will all die like mere men, you will fall like every other ruler” (verse 7). The reference is to mortal men who represent God’s authority in the world—kings, judges, and magistrates. (Please see our article on Psalm 82:6.)

Psalm 82 is a warning to unjust leaders who consider themselves “gods” (Psalm 82:1) yet who “know nothing,” who “walk about in darkness” (Psalm 82:5). Jesus used this passage in response to those who accused Him of blasphemy. Essentially, Jesus asked why, when human rulers were called gods, “the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world” (John 10:36) was blaspheming by claiming to be God’s Son.

Claiming divinity for Christians is insupportable, especially taking the rest of the Bible into account. God is God alone (Isaiah 37:16). We have never been God, we are not God now, and we never will be God. Jesus was fully God and fully man (a combination called the hypostatic union). If the “little gods” hypothesis is accepted, it imputes to Jesus a lesser divinity of some kind; He became a “little god” like us. John said that “the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us” (John 1:14), but this does not indicate “a lesser divinity.” Jesus took on human flesh and blood in order to die for our sins (Hebrews 2:14), yet He retained His full position in the Godhead. God created us with a spirit, but that spirit does not hold divine qualities.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Yes, this is another belief of yours. You should make a list and then start a thread called "things I believe."

I was responding to you saying that the second coming of the Messiah is inconsistent with Judaism and thus annuls the fulfillment of these prophecies. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

Man of sorrows who was wounded for our transgressions.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Isaiah 53:4-5, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:10 says, Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, and he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:12 says, ...he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Isaiah 53:8, ...for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
II Corinthians 5:21..he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I John 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

I Peter 2:24, Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree [cross], that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Saying that the Old Testament calls people saviors in a certain sense is like saying that we are little gods. Verses have to be read in the proper context.

Are Christians “little gods”? | GotQuestions.org
No one calls humans "little Gods" in my system of belief. You asked if the word "savior" can apply to anyone but God. I can show that God's bible uses it to refer to people. Now you say that that doesn't matter. If you keep changing what you mean, you won't end up meaning anything.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Isaiah 53 is not about the Messiah. It is about the servant, Israel.

Then what about the Messiah being a perfect sacrifice and born in Bethlehem? Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua


  • [*]Perfect sacrifice.
    Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
    Leviticus 16 details how the priest is to give atonement for the sins of the people by shedding the blood of animals. These animals were substitutionary sacrifices. Moses's actions picture what Christ would do on the cross as the perfect sacrifice- deity in human form without sin and without blemish.

    Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
    II Corinthians 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    John 1:29, ...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    I Peter 1:18-19, ...redeemed with...the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

    Unlike the blood of goats which had to be offered once a year in atonement, Christ takes away our sins for eternity.




    [*]Born in Bethlehem.
    Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
    Micah 5:2, But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
    Luke 2:1, 4-7, ...there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. And Joseph also went up from Galilee out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn son...
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No one calls humans "little Gods" in my system of belief. You asked if the word "savior" can apply to anyone but God. I can show that God's bible uses it to refer to people. Now you say that that doesn't matter. If you keep changing what you mean, you won't end up meaning anything.

I was saying that the term ye are gods in the Bible refers to people, but that has nothing to do with the people being called little gods. The same is true for the term savior being used in the Bible.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I was saying that the term ye are gods in the Bible refers to people, but that has nothing to do with the people being called little gods. The same is true for the term savior being used in the Bible.
There is no "ye are gods" in the bible (you are refering to a line in Psalms 82).

Here are 2 other translations:

I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High."

I had taken you for divine beings, sons of the Most High, all of you;

-------------
mybe if you start with a different translation, you will have a different set of beliefs.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Citing what supports one's belief in a discussion about the meaning of prophecies is different from preaching.
good thing I didn't mention "preaching" then. You should respond to what I say. This isn't the first time that you have posted something responding to nothing I said.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
good thing I didn't mention "preaching" then. You should respond to what I say. This isn't the first time that you have posted something responding to nothing I said.

You said that belief of a second advent of a Messiah is inconsistent with Judaism and I told you what I believed.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
Jesus appeared to Abraham in the Old Testament near Sodom and Gomorrah.

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