Biological sex (intersex)

This thread OP is a twitter thread that is really about intersex people. But it also plays to those who throw around "biological sex" without knowing what they are talking about: Among other reasons, I don't think people know how many transgender people actually are intersex and don't know it. If nothing else, this deals with the "there are only two sexes: male and female" because that's just plain provably wrong.

‘Biological Sex’ Explanation By Bio Professor Goes Viral, Challenging Sex And Identity Discrimination

Also, the twitter thread: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRHelm/status/1207835597206937600

Turns out there is only ONE GENE on the Y chromosome that really matters to sex. It’s called the SRY gene. During human embryonic development the SRY protein turns on male-associated genes. Having an SRY gene makes you “genetically male”. But is this “biological sex”?

Sometimes that SRY gene pops off the Y chromosome and over to an X chromosome. Surprise! So now you’ve got an X with an SRY and a Y without an SRY. What does this mean?

A Y with no SRY means physically you’re female, chromosomally you’re male (XY) and genetically you’re female (no SRY). An X with an SRY means you’re physically male, chromsomally female (XX) and genetically male (SRY). But biological sex is simple! There must be another answer...

...if you’re developing, your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex. Leading you to be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally non-binary, and physically non-binary. Well, except cells have something to say about this...

Maybe cells are the answer to “biological sex”?? Right?? Cells have receptors that “hear” the signal from sex hormones. But sometimes those receptors don’t work. Like a mobile phone that’s on “do not disturb’. Call and cell, they will not answer.

It means you may be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female.

I have a friend who is intersex. Growing up, she was raised as a boy because she has a penis. It turns out she also has ovaries and a uterus, and when she hit puberty she started getting a womanly figure. She identifies as a woman now, but since she was raised as a boy, she had to legally change her sex. Because of that, in the eyes of the law, she can't join the military because she is considered transgendered.

I wish people would concern themselves more with a person's character rather than what's between their legs...

sun rise said:

If nothing else, this deals with the "there are only two sexes: male and female" because that's just plain provably wrong.

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That's a very interesting and informative article.

It will do nothing to convince the One Adam & One Eve crowd.

sun rise said:

This thread OP is a twitter thread that is really about intersex people. But it also plays to those who throw around "biological sex" without knowing what they are talking about: Among other reasons, I don't think people know how many transgender people actually are intersex and don't know it. If nothing else, this deals with the "there are only two sexes: male and female" because that's just plain provably wrong.

‘Biological Sex’ Explanation By Bio Professor Goes Viral, Challenging Sex And Identity Discrimination

Also, the twitter thread: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRHelm/status/1207835597206937600

Turns out there is only ONE GENE on the Y chromosome that really matters to sex. It’s called the SRY gene. During human embryonic development the SRY protein turns on male-associated genes. Having an SRY gene makes you “genetically male”. But is this “biological sex”?

Sometimes that SRY gene pops off the Y chromosome and over to an X chromosome. Surprise! So now you’ve got an X with an SRY and a Y without an SRY. What does this mean?

A Y with no SRY means physically you’re female, chromosomally you’re male (XY) and genetically you’re female (no SRY). An X with an SRY means you’re physically male, chromsomally female (XX) and genetically male (SRY). But biological sex is simple! There must be another answer...

...if you’re developing, your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex. Leading you to be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally non-binary, and physically non-binary. Well, except cells have something to say about this...

Maybe cells are the answer to “biological sex”?? Right?? Cells have receptors that “hear” the signal from sex hormones. But sometimes those receptors don’t work. Like a mobile phone that’s on “do not disturb’. Call and cell, they will not answer.

It means you may be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female.

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Wonderful OP, best explanation I have heard so far. And hopefully goes a long way to normalizing the fact that sex and gender expression are fluid, not rigid.

You guys didn’t cover this in biology class?
I remember this from my grade 10 curriculum

sun rise said:

This thread OP is a twitter thread that is really about intersex people. But it also plays to those who throw around "biological sex" without knowing what they are talking about: Among other reasons, I don't think people know how many transgender people actually are intersex and don't know it. If nothing else, this deals with the "there are only two sexes: male and female" because that's just plain provably wrong.

‘Biological Sex’ Explanation By Bio Professor Goes Viral, Challenging Sex And Identity Discrimination

Also, the twitter thread: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRHelm/status/1207835597206937600

Turns out there is only ONE GENE on the Y chromosome that really matters to sex. It’s called the SRY gene. During human embryonic development the SRY protein turns on male-associated genes. Having an SRY gene makes you “genetically male”. But is this “biological sex”?

Sometimes that SRY gene pops off the Y chromosome and over to an X chromosome. Surprise! So now you’ve got an X with an SRY and a Y without an SRY. What does this mean?

A Y with no SRY means physically you’re female, chromosomally you’re male (XY) and genetically you’re female (no SRY). An X with an SRY means you’re physically male, chromsomally female (XX) and genetically male (SRY). But biological sex is simple! There must be another answer...

...if you’re developing, your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex. Leading you to be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally non-binary, and physically non-binary. Well, except cells have something to say about this...

Maybe cells are the answer to “biological sex”?? Right?? Cells have receptors that “hear” the signal from sex hormones. But sometimes those receptors don’t work. Like a mobile phone that’s on “do not disturb’. Call and cell, they will not answer.

It means you may be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female.

Click to expand...

Question, can any of these folks impregnate themselves?

If they can great, but "sex" in the biological sense is about procreation. Whether you can give birth or whether you provided the seed/sperm. This would identify your sex not your chromosomes. Biologically which part/role do you play in procreation.

Also worth noting that there is also a spectrum between intersex and 'standard' presentation, usually having to do with endocrine function such as with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. Many women with PCOS, which is a fairly common condition, could grow full beards, put on much more muscle mass, and have abnormal (but less noticeable) genital presentation.
Such as And that's just one endocrine condition.
Really drives home that sex is a spectrum, not a binary.

Nakosis said:

Question, can any of these folks impregnate themselves?

If they can great, but "sex" in the biological sense is about procreation. Whether you can give birth or whether you provided the seed/sperm. This would identify your sex not your chromosomes. Biologically which part/role do you play in procreation.

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Intersex doesn't mean hermaphroditism. And there are a lot of naturally infertile people who still have a sex and a gender identity.

ADigitalArtist said:

Intersex doesn't mean hermaphroditism. And there are a lot of naturally infertile people who still have a sex and a gender identity.

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So what is the difference between a sex identity and a gender identity?

Transsexualism itself may be an intersex condition, because it's obviously biologically based. Something got crossed in the womb and apparently causes the brain to masculinize or feminize as opposed to the rest of the body. There's genetic aspects to it, too.

Biological sex isn't just your chromosomes, either. Hormones play such a huge part in it. So if, for example, a trans man is on testosterone, he's not exactly biologically female. I get a bit annoyed when trans people like Blaire White say, in her case, they're biologically male. If she thinks that, she should take that up with her doctor because the treatments aren't working then.

Nakosis said:

So what is the difference between a sex identity and a gender identity?

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Sex identity is identifying male, female or intersex based on a combination of physical characteristics including chromosomes and gonads, gender identity is identifying man, woman or nonbinary based on a combination of psychological and sociological characteristics.

Something that is not being discussed here so far, but I think needs to be, is our innate human urge to classify things into nice, tidy categories that we can then easily deal with. I mean, let's play a little mind game, and suggest that humans came in 3 sexes: male, female and split vertically down the center, anterior/posterior. We could could with that, because there'd still be an easy visual way to sort things out, and we'd move on.

Note that if our hypothetical third were split female/left-male/right, they could still get together with each other, and have even more fun than the rest of us -- with both experiencing the pleasures of each sex during whatever act(s) are embarked upon (providing they're face-to-face )

We could even propose that our third could be either female right or left, and same for males -- but we'd still cope. We'd sort it out because we could visualize it.

Most humans, however, have a terrible time visualing "being" one thing but with the "apparatus" of another thing. The sauce pot with delusions of being a roasting pan is going to have a hard time, because you'll never get a turkey, or anything larger than a quail, inside it.

What I'm trying to get at here is that this discussion needs to include some notions about "how do the vast majority of humans cope with it?" Because the biggest problem with intersex isn't the intersex itself, it's the interplay with the rest of humanity.

ADigitalArtist said:

Sex identity is identifying male, female or intersex based on a combination of physical characteristics including chromosomes and gonads, gender identity is identifying man, woman or nonbinary based on a combination of psychological and sociological characteristics.

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Ok two questions, sorry I plead ignorant here.
1st in procreation, how is the role male/female classified. I see this role as biological. So if not designated as biological sex then what?
2nd so one identity is predominant physical characteristics, the other psychological. What about how one chooses to present themselves? Like they accept a male identity but like to dress as a female or vice versa. Is this sex/gender identity or something else?

1st q. Biological sex is divided between chromosomal and gonadal sex. One doesn't necessarily reflect the other so both are considered. Whether you can or cannot reproduce is not factored because animals (including humans) which are sterile still have a chromosomal and gonadal sex (even if it's 'intersex).

You might be thinking of sexual reproduction vs asexual reproduction
Though there's more than just two sexes in that category too. And not all gamete egg and sperm producing organisms can be easily classified into male or female (lots of fish and invertebrates have three or more sexes). Some are even parthenogenetic, having chromosomal and gonadal sex but able to produce both sperm and eggs.

2nd q. Sounds like you're talking about gender expression. Which is how you present your gender based on individual and societal gender ideals.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

split vertically down the center,

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Like the cardinal that's half and half Rare bird: 'Half-male, half-female' cardinal snapped in Pennsylvania

sun rise said:

Like the cardinal that's half and half Rare bird: 'Half-male, half-female' cardinal snapped in Pennsylvania

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Well, yes, perhaps. With humans, of course, the anatomy of the sexual organs may be imagined to be somewhat complex; does one have only half a penis/vagina on each side, or a whole one? Makes a huge difference in the possible consummation of the relationship.

Medical biological human sciences.

Observation of a formed living human experience to observe as another living human and own comments.

Humans all born as babies from a natural human father. A natural human mother. Sex

The medical bible journal said one man and one woman equal.

Baby child innocent of its inheritance if you cared to read the information as an observation why it was stated.

Meaning a genesis genetic exodus was observed. It was notated and detailed all human dissassociated inherited life problems. Proclaiming the baby child a victim. A God victim by God stone Ra sun changes.

A victim of satanism.

Eating consuming broken stone law that changed human cell and blood.

As a correct use how to assess being notified without personal bias.

SomeRandom said:

You guys didn’t cover this in biology class?
I remember this from my grade 10 curriculum

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We're Americans, our education system leaves some things to be desires, especially when it comes to sexual and reproductive health education.

Left Coast said:

We're Americans, our education system leaves some things to be desires, especially when it comes to sexual and reproductive health education.

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So I’ve heard lol. What is it you Yanks teach over there anyways?

SomeRandom said:

So I’ve heard lol. What is it you Yanks teach over there anyways?

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Roughly this: