These Vaccines Work Really Well

Secret Chief said:

@exchemist
You're more informative than the Beeb.

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Yeah I'm putting more effort into this subject than usual, because I think it matters and because we have a lot of people on this forum who live in countries where there is a lot of misinformation and where trust in science has been damaged. (No names, no pack drill.)

exchemist said:

Yeah I'm putting more effort into this subject than usual, because I think it matters and because we have a lot of people on this forum who live in countries where there is a lot of misinformation and where trust in science has been damaged. (No names, no pack drill.)

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You saying bleach doesn't work?

Secret Chief said:

You saying bleach doesn't work?

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And nor does shoving a light up your arse.....

exchemist said:

And nor does shoving a light up your arse.....

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That's a little bit creepy.

exchemist said:

Because the number of over 80s turning up at hospitals all over Britain has dropped like a stone, since the vaccination programme kicked in. Before, the ICUs were full of old people, gasping out their last breaths. Now, the number of over 80s coming in* has reduced to a trickle, in the space of a month.

There is no other possible explanation than that it is the vaccine protecting them.

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That makes logical sense so I am inclined to believe it must be the vaccines if that is the only factor that is different.
I guess my mind goes off on a tangent and I get off track, wondering why so many over 80s were getting Covd-19 in the first place. How were they catching it and why were they more vulnerable than younger people? Is it because older people have more underlying conditions?

Secret Chief said:

@exchemist
You're more informative than the Beeb.

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That's very true.

Trailblazer said:

That's very true.

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Please, @Trailblazer, have the vaccine when offered.

Duke_Leto said:

What do you mean Big Pharma ruined your health? Don't you trust the science? Don't you know they had thousands of studies proving their drugs were safe? Would the government have certified that these drugs were safe if they weren't?

In all seriousness one of the more disturbing things to come from the lockdowns has been people acting like science can't be made political, and hasn't been made so. I absolutely don't trust the vaccine myself, and given how long vaccines ordinarily take to produce people ought to be a lot more worried that these are jumping straight off the shelf, especially when they're using experimental technology.

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That would be because you have not understood the process. I explained on another thread how it is that the timeline has been successfully compressed, without compromising safety. Would you like me to explain it to you, or would it suit your politics better to stay uninformed?

Secret Chief said:

Please, @Trailblazer, have the vaccine when offered.

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It is already available to people in my age group here so it is just a matter of setting up an appointment.
But something is always going on with a cat and cats' health take precedence over me and my husband.

Trailblazer said:

It is not known what the harm is yet.

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Darn right. Ten years from now I might die from the effects of the vaccine. Alternatively, I can ignore the science, get COVID and die in two weeks because the disease ravaged my lungs (like 514,000 other Americans).

On the other hand, I could rely on homeopathic medicines. Oh, wait...

Trailblazer said:

I will tell you right now that I do not trust allopathic medicine for as far as I can throw an elephant.
I believe that one reason so many people are susceptible to Covid-19 is because they are sick from allopathic medicine.

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Trailblazer said:

I am not on the right and I am not religious anti-science. Baha'is believe in the harmony of science and religion and we are enjoined to go to competent physicians when we are ill.

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I was responding to you when you said...

Trailblazer said:

I believe that one reason so many people are susceptible to Covid-19 is because they are sick from allopathic medicine.

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Trailblazer said:

My husband and I wore masks from day one.
As for getting the vaccine, I just explained to ChristineM what we plan to do about that.

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That comment flies in the face of your previous comment quoted above. Why would you get the vaccine if you don't trust allopathic medicine?

Secret Chief said:

That's a little bit creepy.

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Not nearly as creepy as when Trump uttered those words during a press conference.

Trailblazer said:

That makes logical sense so I am inclined to believe it must be the vaccines if that is the only factor that is different.
I guess my mind goes off on a tangent and I get off track, wondering why so many over 80s were getting Covd-19 in the first place. How were they catching it and why were they more vulnerable than younger people? Is it because older people have more underlying conditions?

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That's a good question. What I have read suggests it is not just presence of underlying conditions.

Apparently, the immune system does not work so well in older people, even healthy ones. The problem with this virus is that if the immune system senses it is getting overwhelmed, it can go into an out of control, overdrive state known as a "cytokine storm". Cytokine storm.

That, in fact, is what usually kills you, not the effect of the virus itself on the cells of your body. One of the paradoxes of this disease is that some of the most effective treatments for severe cases are drugs that calm down the immune system, to stop this happening, for example this one: Dexamethasone - Wikipedia

This is more likely to happen in older people, whose immune system more easily reaches its limit and trips into a cytokine storm. Or that's my understanding.

ecco said:

Darn right. Ten years from now I might die from the effects of the vaccine. Alternatively, I can ignore the science, get COVID and die in two weeks because the disease ravaged my lungs (like 514,000 other Americans).

On the other hand, I could rely on homeopathic medicines. Oh, wait...

https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy

A 2015 comprehensive assessment of evidence by the Australian government’s National Health and Medical Research Council concluded that there is no reliable evidence that homeopathy is effective for any health condition.​

Homeopathic Products

While products labeled as homeopathic are generally labeled as highly diluted, some of these products have been found to contain measurable amounts of active ingredients and therefore could cause significant patient harm. Additionally, FDA has tested products that were improperly manufactured, which can cause incorrect dilutions and increase the potential for contamination. Further, some products labeled as homeopathic are marketed to treat serious diseases or conditions.​

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I will no doubt be getting the vaccine as soon as I have time. Meanwhile I am not that worried and I have more pressing issues in my life to deal with.

I never suggested anyone rely upon homeopathy to protect themselves from Covid-19 and I have not seen any reputable homeopaths recommending that either.

I am not going to debate about homeopathy. I know it is safe and effective for certain conditions and even preferable to conventional medicines for certain conditions, particularly psychological conditions. There are studies that have proven this but you only find what you are looking for. You can find pretty much anything on the internet but all of it is not true.

I am not saying conventional medicine should not be used when it is needed but I think drugs are over-prescribed and not always needed when prescribed.

Buyer beware when anyone buys a product off the shelf. Any remedies I have taken are manufactured by reputable pharmacies such as Boiron and one cannot buy these off the shelf.

Boiron is a manufacturer of homeopathic products, headquartered in France and with an operating presence in 59 countries worldwide. It is the largest manufacturer of homeopathic products in the world. Wikipedia

ecco said:

That comment flies in the face of your previous comment quoted above. Why would you get the vaccine if you don't trust allopathic medicine?

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I do not consider the vaccine to be allopathic medicine as the vaccine is not like a drug that masks symptoms.

ChristineM said:

This is not the point i was making. The UK government went ahead with vaccinations before data was available using a drug that had nor been approved. To my understand talking to relatives and friends who were in thst first batch, both the lack of approval and the lack of data was not provided to those having the vaccine. So informed consent was incomplete and extremely dubious.

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I see. I wasn't aware of any of this.

ChristineM said:

It was unknown if the vaccine could have side effects on the older age group not seen on those of the tests.

Yes they have lived most their lives but does that mean risks should be taken with the time they have remaining?

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Yes, if it means their kids and grandkids won't have to.

But that's only provided that the people involved understand the risks.

Trailblazer said:

I do not consider the vaccine to be allopathic medicine as the vaccine is not like a drug that masks symptoms.

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The world disagrees with your definition,

ecco said:

The world disagrees with your definition,

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Maybe that's true, but like I said, I am not an either-or fanatic, as I use conventional medicines when they are necessary.
Reputable homeopaths prescribe conventional medicines if people have conditions that warrant them.
I highly doubt any reputable homeopath is going to tell people not to get vaccinated for Covid-19.

exchemist said:

That would be because you have not understood the process. I explained on another thread how it is that the timeline has been successfully compressed, without compromising safety. Would you like me to explain it to you, or would it suit your politics better to stay uninformed?

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Feel free to explain or link me to your explanation. But regardless I have difficulty trusting what any pharmaceutical company, or government controlled by pharmaceutical interests says, because I know people who have been killed by them and more who have had their lives ruined by them.

This isn’t because I have preconceived political beliefs. I’m not a conservative. But I’m also not a Democratic partisan and I don’t trust any corporation that has deliberately killed people when liberals tell me to either.

If these vaccines are safe, good. But I’m not going to be first in line to to get them.

Duke_Leto said:

But regardless I have difficulty trusting what any pharmaceutical company, or government controlled by pharmaceutical interests says, because I know people who have been killed by them and more who have had their lives ruined by them.

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I almost had my life ruined by psychotropic drugs, but thankfully I discovered homeopathy just in the nick of time.
Nobody is ever going to tell me I need those drugs, because I know better.