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Guided evolution?

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
I am familiar with the idea of "guided evolution"

That humans are the product of evolution, but that evolution has been "guided" so that intelligent humans ended up being evolved

The fact of evolution is thus reconciled with the notion that God created humans - that he created us through evolution

Is this something people believe in?

It makes sense to me
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I am familiar with the idea of "guided evolution"

That humans are the product of evolution, but that evolution has been "guided" so that intelligent humans ended up being evolved

The fact of evolution is thus reconciled with the notion that God created humans - that he created us through evolution

Is this something people believe in?

It makes sense to me
This article is worth a read: Theistic evolution

As far as "guidance" goes, I would be careful. As Francis Collins notes in his 6 points, the theistic view of evolution is that no supernatural intervention in the processes of nature was required. Furthermore, there is nothing teleological about evolution: it goes on all the time and has no goal. So there is, in my view, something of a question of what "guidance" can mean.

It seems to me the best way to think of it is that God's laws of nature are such that morally aware beings - in need of help - can arise. They have done so on Earth and may well have done so elsewhere in the universe too.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
I am familiar with the idea of "guided evolution"

That humans are the product of evolution, but that evolution has been "guided" so that intelligent humans ended up being evolved

The fact of evolution is thus reconciled with the notion that God created humans - that he created us through evolution

Is this something people believe in?

It makes sense to me
Why bring god into it? It makes perfect sense without god.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
I am familiar with the idea of "guided evolution"

That humans are the product of evolution, but that evolution has been "guided" so that intelligent humans ended up being evolved

The fact of evolution is thus reconciled with the notion that God created humans - that he created us through evolution

Is this something people believe in?

It makes sense to me


We are the cosmos made conscious.

You might like this: What is Evolutionary Creation? - Common-questions
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I am familiar with the idea of "guided evolution"

That humans are the product of evolution, but that evolution has been "guided" so that intelligent humans ended up being evolved

The fact of evolution is thus reconciled with the notion that God created humans - that he created us through evolution

Is this something people believe in?

It makes sense to me
Yes! But patterns were inherent in the original life forms. if one frog line didn't make it to humans then others could have.

Also, the presence of the Cosmic Mind has been stimulating to brain growth for all evolutionary creatures.
 

janesix

Active Member
I am familiar with the idea of "guided evolution"

That humans are the product of evolution, but that evolution has been "guided" so that intelligent humans ended up being evolved

The fact of evolution is thus reconciled with the notion that God created humans - that he created us through evolution

Is this something people believe in?

It makes sense to me
I believe in orthogenesis. Which means that things evolve for and towards a purpose. That human-like beings are an archetype or pattern that will emerge(as other archetypes and patterns also emerge). I think human type beings are an early stage of some type of beings that are much more advanced than we are.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I am familiar with the idea of "guided evolution"

That humans are the product of evolution, but that evolution has been "guided" so that intelligent humans ended up being evolved

The fact of evolution is thus reconciled with the notion that God created humans - that he created us through evolution

Is this something people believe in?

It makes sense to me
I don't think it makes a lot of sense. If I were God and wanted to create Woman, I would just create Woman, more or less like in literal Genesis.

For sure, I would not go through the painstaking, inefficient and bloody process, lasting billions of years, leaving 99% of all species down, based on killing the weak, with continuous tweaking, including the deviation of huge asteroids wiping out mammals competitors, together with other calamities, and mass extinctions.

Too complicated. And immoral. Not in line with an infinite almighty being with a clear goal in mind.

Ergo, if the God of the Bible existed, I would say that a literal reading of Genesis is the correct one. But since Genesis is obviously factually wrong, we can safely conclude that such God does not exist.

Ciao

- viole
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Well...
I think that God has conceived us as perfect beings in His mind but Nature is chaotic, and even if it struggles for perfection, it is the randomness that prevails.
And that is Evolution.
I guess because God gave nature freedom.:)
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Yes! But patterns were inherent in the original life forms. if one frog line didn't make it to humans then others could have.

Also, the presence of the Cosmic Mind has been stimulating to brain growth for all evolutionary creatures.
So all the other primates are just back-ups, in case H. Sapiens failed?

Both views seem possible to me but it makes more sense to go with the one not requiring a lot of extra stuff as explanation. Since it is just as plausible that this is what has happened.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I don't think it makes a lot of sense. If I were God and wanted to create Woman, I would just create Woman, more or less like in literal Genesis.

For sure, I would not go through the painstaking, inefficient and bloody process, lasting billions of years, leaving 99% of all species down, based on killing the weak, with continuous tweaking, including the deviation of huge asteroids wiping out mammals competitors, together with other calamities, and mass extinctions.

Too complicated. And immoral. Not in line with an infinite almighty being with a clear goal in mind.

Ergo, if the God of the Bible existed, I would say that a literal reading of Genesis is the correct one. But since Genesis is obviously factually wrong, we can safely conclude that such God does not exist.

Ciao

- viole

A literal reading is correct and evolution is correct.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
So all the other primates are just back-ups, in case H. Sapiens failed?

Both views seem possible to me but it makes more sense to go with the one not requiring a lot of extra stuff as explanation. Since it is just as plausible that this is what has happened.
Primates would have branched off much earlier from our same Lemur ancestors. Plenty of dead ends of kinds that mutated off of lines that continued on.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
painstaking, inefficient and bloody process, lasting billions of years
I don't think an almighty God could find anything painstaking, or inefficient

And I doubt that time would matter to such a being, either

If I were God and wanted to create Woman, I would just create Woman, more or less like in literal Genesis.
I wouldn't

Because I would want my humans to come to understand the universe naturalistically

Hence I would create them through nature, to make a naturalistic account true

I'd give them an authentic, true backstory: that they evolved from a previous species of ape

Too complicated. And immoral. Not in line with an infinite almighty being with a clear goal in mind.
A clear goal in mind?

Who's to say we humans are what it's all about?

Maybe God didn't have a "clear goal" to create humans?

Maybe God just wanted to create nature? To see what happens? And that's enough for him?

If he's so almighty then why would he need intelligent companionship?

Would he actually need his ego stroking by adoring worshippers?

And if he is infinite and almighty he would have no need to be efficient with his time and energies as these would be literally infinite

And maybe there is a God and evolution is unguided? I think that would actually make more sense than there being a God who guided evolution.

I can perfectly well imagine a God who on one hand set up a universe to work naturally and with no intervention yet on the other hand wanted civilised beings to emerge
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Too complicated. And immoral. Not in line with an infinite almighty being with a clear goal in mind.

Ergo, if the God of the Bible existed, I would say that a literal reading of Genesis is the correct one. But since Genesis is obviously factually wrong, we can safely conclude that such God does not exist.

With reasons like that, even if the Bible could be read to accommodate evolution, that would mean nothing to you when it came to belief in the God of the Bible.
And it can be read to accommodate evolution.
It sounds as if it is not evolution per so which is the problem, but the general problem of evil and suffering.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm inclined to believe that there is not only no evidence of guidance in evolution, there is evidence that seems contrary to guidance such as the evolution of threats which could potentially wipe humans out, or the emergence of threats which possibly will wipe humans out at some point.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I'm inclined to believe that there is not only no evidence of guidance in evolution, there is evidence that seems contrary to guidance such as the evolution of threats which could potentially wipe humans out, or the emergence of threats which possibly will wipe humans out at some point.

Or maybe an asteroid will hit the earth or aliens might attack or, or........ Thus God cannot exist.
A creator would have it all under control. And if you say God does not exist because of that then what could be coming as predicted in Revelation will not turn you towards God (as the one who is judging us with plagues etc and so that we see the truth of His word and turn to Him).
It actually says things will get so bad that He will have to step in and put an end to it.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Or maybe an asteroid will hit the earth or aliens might attack or, or........ Thus God cannot exist.
A creator would have it all under control. And if you say God does not exist because of that then what could be coming as predicted in Revelation will not turn you towards God (as the one who is judging us with plagues etc and so that we see the truth of His word and turn to Him).
It actually says things will get so bad that He will have to step in and put an end to it.
I still believe in God, I just think God allowed evolution to be a blind process.

And I doubt that plagues turn us toward God, because they are random and affect believer and unbelievers alike.

If you wanted to turn kids towards you or your rule in a school you wouldn't randomly discipline them, you would discipline the ones that broke the rules in accordance with the severity of their deviation.

That's why I in my opinion plagues etc are part of a blind process.

Although there are other good arguments that evolution is a blind process as well. Such as things that are poorly designed in the human body.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
I still believe in God, I just think God allowed evolution to be a blind process.

And I doubt that plagues turn us toward God, because they are random and affect believer and unbelievers alike.

If you wanted to turn kids towards you or your rule in a school you wouldn't randomly discipline them, you would discipline the ones that broke the rules in accordance with the severity of their deviation.

That's why I in my opinion plagues etc are part of a blind process.

Although there are other good arguments that evolution is a blind process as well. Such as things that are poorly designed in the human body.

Such a shame that we don't see people who display un-Christian-like behavior being punished more often than people who do behave in the way Jesus instructed.
 
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