enlightenment has nothing to do with attachment to material things.
science isn't something limited to objective science. science can be subjective too. there are just some things that can't be controlled
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Jesus, Enlightenment, and Accountability
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enlightenment has nothing to do with attachment to material things.
science isn't something limited to objective science. science can be subjective too. there are just some things that can't be controlled
epronovost
Well-Known Member
I'm talking about philosophical materialism as in the idea that all things are made of matter not materialism as the collocial for people who like money and purchase things.
belief in science is a necessary thing too; otherwise there is no innovation, no change.
in enlightenment there is a release from attachment in discovering the new. works the same way in science the old way of thinking doesn't necessarily work in the new way of understanding the unknown.
so materialism isn't as important as the mind. you only use what you need in order to understand what you don't. in real science the ideal is understood only after an idea is realized.
so it is the mind that first seeks and then finds. what the eye can't observe the mind's eye can still discover by changing the instruments used to find it.
so again it is the spiritual that is more powerful than the material
gotcha
epronovost
Well-Known Member
According to materialism your mind is also made of matter, more specifically it's made of your neuro-chemical network. Note that mental processes and structures are all under the perview of science. If you want to refer to the enlightenment ideas, it's the idea that reason, science and materialism are to be used to reach humanist goals which includes self realisation, harmony, freedom, etc.
If you prefer the more vague and orientalist vision of "enlightenment", as a state of harmony, inner peace and self realisation and awe, then yes Jesus talked about this state, but did not make reaching such a state of mind a central theme or end goal of his teachings. He was more pre-occupied with human behaviors and love of God than personnal growth.
Enlightenment, IMO, is not about being God. It is not about atonement. It is not about being in awe of love.
Enlightenment is about letting go of the accumulated baggage of self. If you want to see the "self" as God, divinity masquerading as human beings to get his/her jollies that's ok but to me, this is just additional baggage that one ought to let go of.
Everything. The mystical state is one of absolute liberation or Freedom. It's freedom from all fear and suffering. That is what being "saved" or "born again" is. It's Liberation.
yet hinduism and buddhism both expound greatly on compassion and love towards one's fellow man.
pure consciousness = unconditional love
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Is this someting you know, janesix, or something you believe?
janesix
Active Member
I know nothing.
Yes, that is salvation. It transcends the 'flesh" or the gross level reality, or maya. It is liberation into the subtle and causal realities, it sees that all is God, or "the kingdom of heaven". Think of that verse in John about born again. "Unless you are born of the Spirit, you cannot see the kingdom of God".
That's Awakening. That's Enlightenment. It's opening the eyes, and seeing the Divine Reality, or Nirvana. It's liberation from illusion, or Maya. That is being "saved" from darkness or illusion. Same thing.
Pure consciousness, unconditional love? Nice words I suppose but what are these things?
I doubt any human being has real knowledge of either. Just ideals we think we ought to strive for.
What is love without desire or attachment? What is impure consciousness?
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You do? What is it like?
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Not 'within you'. Rather, 'In the midst of you'