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Responsibility and dharma

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The other day I heard a comment about the SBNR crowd. (Spiritual but not religious). It changed the acronym to Spiritual but not Responsible.

So I got to thinking about the term 'responsibility' and what we as individuals are responsible for. The thought occurred that it parallels our Hindu word 'dharma' in many ways.

We're responsible for the welfare of our family, our dharma is to take care of family.
It seems to me that folks who have no responsibility also have no dharma.

Thoughts?
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Its hard to really imagine anyone will no responsibility. Some may shirk their responsibility, but refusing to do it doesn't make it not theirs anymore.

Sometimes its hard to figure out where one person's responsibility ends, and another's begins. We used to have a roommate who had various issues. He wanted us to take care of him, and when we refused, I remember him smiling gently at me and saying "I've noticed you're afraid of responsibility". I disagreed, and said I was careful about what responsibilities I took on, and when I invited him to stay with us to get ahold on life again, I wasn't intending to feed, house, clothe, and transport him for the rest of his life. That was his responsibility, I felt. In his mind, it was mine. It is often difficult to assign responsibility in a way that is meaningful to all parties involved.

Another is finding one's dharma, or responsibility. For some, this entails taking care of a family. For others, they don't do well in a family setting, and may be better off being in a more solitary lifestyle.

How does one adequately determine their dharma? It is easy for someone to say they know what it is for us, but more often than not, they are projecting their own ideals onto us.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Its hard to really imagine anyone will no responsibility. Some may shirk their responsibility, but refusing to do it doesn't make it not theirs anymore.

Sometimes its hard to figure out where one person's responsibility ends, and another's begins. We used to have a roommate who had various issues. He wanted us to take care of him, and when we refused, I remember him smiling gently at me and saying "I've noticed you're afraid of responsibility". I disagreed, and said I was careful about what responsibilities I took on, and when I invited him to stay with us to get ahold on life again, I wasn't intending to feed, house, clothe, and transport him for the rest of his life. That was his responsibility, I felt. In his mind, it was mine. It is often difficult to assign responsibility in a way that is meaningful to all parties involved.

Another is finding one's dharma, or responsibility. For some, this entails taking care of a family. For others, they don't do well in a family setting, and may be better off being in a more solitary lifestyle.

How does one adequately determine their dharma? It is easy for someone to say they know what it is for us, but more often than not, they are projecting their own ideals onto us.

Some days life decisions are harder than others. As for the roommate, I may have considered it my responsibility to not help him. In raising kids, some days it's best to let them fight their own battles. For sure, considering anyone who is even reasonably sane, they are their own best judges of their own characters. That projection thing can be annoying. Boss has been shopping with some Tamil friends, for saris, and they actually said, "This is the one you want." lol

I see it now as my responsibility, in retirement, to at least care for myself, as it takes that responsibility off the kids. The days of having heavy external responsibility are over for us, but we have increased responsibility to dig deeper for eventual mukti. You're in the middle of a lot of responsibility, teenaged kids and all.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We each have our own, individual dharma, and, in the good old days (
rolleyes.gif
), right action used to be decided by one's Varna and Jati.
Not so easy nowadays.
Of course, in a cosmic sense, it's all predestined anyway. Your personal life-program has always existed, and anyone running it will experience the same life every time.
No?
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
We're responsible for the welfare of our family, our dharma is to take care of family.
It seems to me that folks who have no responsibility also have no dharma.
Vinayaka, 'dharma' is not limited to one's family only. It is a huge responsibility to our society, our country, to humanity and to the world in total. For me the best translation is "our duties and righteous action". I do not remember where I picked it from. Every one has responsibilities, even ascetics - can they murder? Even the enlightened jnanis and deities are not free from their duties.
 
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ajay0

Well-Known Member
The other day I heard a comment about the SBNR crowd. (Spiritual but not religious). It changed the acronym to Spiritual but not Responsible.

So I got to thinking about the term 'responsibility' and what we as individuals are responsible for. The thought occurred that it parallels our Hindu word 'dharma' in many ways.

We're responsible for the welfare of our family, our dharma is to take care of family.
It seems to me that folks who have no responsibility also have no dharma.

Thoughts?


Dharma is truth in action. Adharma is falsehood in action.

Thus the first duty or responsibility of man is the seeking of truth and avoidance of falsehood. It is only when the first duty is completed, can truth properly understood be implemented in the practical plane to foster Dharma.

With ignorance or deluded ideas, one can work very hard for days on end and yet only accomplish a lot of adharma and inauspiciousness like Ravana or Hitler.

This is why Aurobindo stated that 'Evil is but ignorance, misapplication and ill-health.'

There is also a great saying by Tryon Edwards in this regard, 'Hell is truth seen too late; duty neglected in its season. '

So yes, Dharma corresponds with the responsibility to figure out the truth and bring it into proper application .

Without the sense of responsibility, there is bound to be stagnation and regression.

There is a responsibility to oneself, to the family, to society, to the nation and to the world, and one has to weigh the pros and cons of all these duties or responsibilities and decide accordingly with reason and wisdom for bringing about the greater good.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. in the good old days (
rolleyes.gif
), right action used to be decided by one's Varna and Jati.
Jati does not have much to do with 'dharma'. Varna sure decided the duties, but who decided varna? Theist answer is God and the modern answer is DNA, bringing-up, education and life experience. That makes us what we are. So, yes, there will be something that we are best suited for, and that is what we should be doing. A mismatch reduces our potentiality. :)
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
The other day I heard a comment about the SBNR crowd. (Spiritual but not religious). It changed the acronym to Spiritual but not Responsible.

So I got to thinking about the term 'responsibility' and what we as individuals are responsible for. The thought occurred that it parallels our Hindu word 'dharma' in many ways.

We're responsible for the welfare of our family, our dharma is to take care of family.
It seems to me that folks who have no responsibility also have no dharma.

Thoughts?

In my understanding each Jiva has its own dharma based on the karma that is carried in the causal body in their journey through samsara. And in my view you are spot on with regard to how individual responsibility is tied to dharma.

This is why one experiences those on life with varying levels of responsibility. Past life experiences that result in the karmic account dictate what one’s dharma is in a given life and thereby what responsibilities one will have in that life.

For some, dharma may be simply taking care of one’s family. For others, it my be self-improvement, and for others, it may be helping the needy, and for still others, it may be any combination of or all of these things or something entirely different.

Yes, there are those that appear to have no responsibility, and their dharma in a subsequent life (or even later in that one) will be based upon the actions resulting from that lack of responsibility through their karma carried in the causal body.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Even the enlightened jnanis and deities are not free from their duties.

Yet are unattached to them.

Also, a brahmajnani’s or jivanmukta’s dharma becomes actions and behaviors performed for the benefit of others if it wasn’t these already.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Vinayaka, 'dharma' is not limited to one's family only. It is a huge responsibility to our society, our country, to humanity and to the world in total. For me the best translation is "our duties and righteous action". I do not remember where I picked it from. Every one has responsibilities, even ascetics - can they murder? Even the enlightened jnanis and deities are not free from their duties.

Neither is responsibility limited to one's family. It's your responsibility to pay your taxes, to be a steward for Mother Earth, etc. This thread isn't about dharma, but it is about how well the English word 'responsibility' aligns to it. Perhaps you didn't read the OP?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Dharma is truth in action. Adharma is falsehood in action.

Thus the first duty or responsibility of man is the seeking of truth and avoidance of falsehood. It is only when the first duty is completed, can truth properly understood be implemented in the practical plane to foster Dharma.

With ignorance or deluded ideas, one can work very hard for days on end and yet only accomplish a lot of adharma and inauspiciousness like Ravana or Hitler.

This is why Aurobindo stated that 'Evil is but ignorance, misapplication and ill-health.'

There is also a great saying by Tryon Edwards in this regard, 'Hell is truth seen too late; duty neglected in its season. '

So yes, Dharma corresponds with the responsibility to figure out the truth and bring it into proper application .

Without the sense of responsibility, there is bound to be stagnation and regression.

There is a responsibility to oneself, to the family, to society, to the nation and to the world, and one has to weigh the pros and cons of all these duties or responsibilities and decide accordingly with reason and wisdom for bringing about the greater good.

Thank you for this response. Do you think, that in discussing our religion with westerners, because of the language barrier with Sanskrit, that 'responsibility' would be an adequate substitute. 'Too many words I don't understand' is a fairly common complaint I hear.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
IMHO, 'responsibility' works just as well as 'dharma'.
They say 'Dharayet iti dharma', (what > responsibility < should be adhered to / taken up / borne is dharma). 'Dharma' is a Hindu's responsibility to fulfill.

There are various kind of 'dharmas' (responsiibilities) - Pitr dharma (dharma towards parents and ancestors); Deva dharma, responsibilities towards deities; Rishi dharma, responsibility towards teachers; Desh dharma, towards the country; Kula dharma, family; Manava dharma, humanity; Patni dharma, responsibility towards one's wife; etc.

Actually, the whole life of a Hindu is spent fulfilling these different 'dharmas', and that is fulfilling. That is what we live for. :D
 

Viraja

Jaya Jagannatha!
I have no profound thoughts on the subject. But want to appreciate the thread for good thoughts.

Just thinking that responsibility stems from needs, needs from desires......... dharma to a large extent is based on desires.... which means that where desires rule us, our dharma is different from a person who is not bound by desires (a sadhu perhaps).
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Yeah, the duties of different people may be different. 'Dharma' is 'duty'. So, a teacher's duties will be different from those of a soldier, but some 'duties' out of them would be the same, for example, respect for elders.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Thank you for this response. Do you think, that in discussing our religion with westerners, because of the language barrier with Sanskrit, that 'responsibility' would be an adequate substitute. 'Too many words I don't understand' is a fairly common complaint I hear.
Depends on the context?
Dharma as I understand it relates roughly to words such as responsibility and duty.
English is actually a pretty specific language, if you think about it. Verbosity seems to be reserved for artistic movements and seen as pretentious by many.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Depends on the context?
Dharma as I understand it relates roughly to words such as responsibility and duty.
English is actually a pretty specific language, if you think about it. Verbosity seems to be reserved for artistic movements and seen as pretentious by many.

The problem with translations in general is that often there simply is no word for something in the new language. So we have to find something that is close. According to the Hindu scholar Rajiv Malhotra, there are at least 100 Sanskrit words that have no great English equivalent. Western scholars have to work in English, so they find what is close, and this often leads to misunderstanding. Ask our friend Aupmanyav how he feels about Brahman being translated to God, for instance.

The Reverend Alexander Pope was one of the first translators. His translation was adequate, but then he took the liberty to add commentary, and his commentary was always biased towards his own faith, sometime in the extreme. So he compared the eastern concepts to his Christianity, often taking huge jumps.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The problem with translations in general is that often there simply is no word for something in the new language. So we have to find something that is close. According to the Hindu scholar Rajiv Malhotra, there are at least 100 Sanskrit words that have no great English equivalent. Western scholars have to work in English, so they find what is close, and this often leads to misunderstanding. Ask our friend Aupmanyav how he feels about Brahman being translated to God, for instance.

The Reverend Alexander Pope was one of the first translators. His translation was adequate, but then he took the liberty to add commentary, and his commentary was always biased towards his own faith, sometime in the extreme. So he compared the eastern concepts to his Christianity, often taking huge jumps.
Tell me about it. My mother is Fijian. So I got concepts translated into English that were already translated into a regional dialect before hand. So in essence I was working with a translation of a translation. Fun
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Ask our friend Aupmanyav how he feels about Brahman being translated to God, for instance.

His translation was adequate, but then he took the liberty to add commentary, and his commentary was always biased towards his own faith, sometime in the extreme. So he compared the eastern concepts to his Christianity, often taking huge jumps.
No, no, never, never in the least (Nasti, nasti, nasti, na nasti kadachana).
Brahman is the substrate (for me), what constitutes all things in the universe.
That is what happens to Prabhupada's Gita. Inserts which are not there in the original.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Tell me about it. My mother is Fijian. So I got concepts translated into English that were already translated into a regional dialect before hand. So in essence I was working with a translation of a translation. Fun
That happens a lot. All the old Tamil stuff like the Tirumanthiram from the Thirumurai vast collection is written in old Tamil, so first they have to put it into modern Tamil, and then to English. Lots of things don't work in translations. like idioms, and vegetation unique to an area.

Sanskrit, fortunately, has stayed relatively unchanged over centuries.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Thank you for this response. Do you think, that in discussing our religion with westerners, because of the language barrier with Sanskrit, that 'responsibility' would be an adequate substitute. 'Too many words I don't understand' is a fairly common complaint I hear.

Duty, responsibility are similar to Dharma, but I think Dharma is a more comprehensive term with a lot more meaning in it.

Perhaps 'righteous action in each moment' may come closer to it.

Rajini Menon has stated that righteous living is living as per one’s own inner conscience.

Living Righteously is Inevitable for Self Realization


For example, German soldiers who fought for Hitler was doing their assigned duty, but not their Dharma, imho.

Dharma demands deeper introspection and discrimination between right and wrong, and also living as per one's own inner conscience.

Carl von Ossietzky, was a German soldier in the first world war, who became a pacifist later on and reported on the clandestine German military buildup in 1929. He was awarded the Nobel peace prize in 1935 for his efforts for peace.

Ossietzky understood his Dharma and acted upon it. Imho, if more Germans had understood their Dharma and acted upon it, Germany's later debacle may not have occurred.
 
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