Who is Jesus?

paarsurrey said:

Excerpt from the post of friend Brian2 :
" It is recorded that John and Mary (Jesus mother) and her sister(could have been a cousin) and Mary Magdalene were there, and standing where Jesus could see them. Jesus spoke to them while dying."

But Matthew, Mark, John, and Luke were not present there and Mary- the mother and other women present there did neither write anything nor did they dictate anything to Matthew, Mark, John, and or Luke. Right?
Why cannot one accept this accuracy, please? Right?
Did Jesus give the teaching to his followers to never accept the accuracy of the matters and side with made-up things, please? Right?
These are the mythical things that Pauline-Christianity created without any teaching of innocent Jesus as to why Christianity has become a breeding ground of Atheism, I understand. Right?
#119 ^

Regards

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As I said, it is recorded that John was there and that the women I mentioned were there. They did not write a gospel or epistle but they would have told others what they saw and heard, just as they did on the morning they went to the tomb and saw and were told by an angel that Jesus had risen from the dead.
Why can't you accept what is recorded?
It is also recorded that Jesus showed Himself to His followers after His resurrection and spoke to them and showed the wounds in His hands from the nails and the wound in His side from the spear.
Why do you think that Christianity is a breeding ground of atheism?

SeekingAllTruth said:

Legends written down in the gospels have Jesus ranging anywhere from a great prophet in Mark to a demi-god in Matthew and Luke to a full-on god in John. he wore so many hats in the gospels we can't get a real picture of what he actually was. Was he an apocalyptic prophet, a shaman, a faith healer, a revolutionary, a wise teacher? Someone mention he was a conglomeration of John the Baptist and a faith healing prophet named Yeshua, this is reasonable. Since the gospels are not based on anything tangible, just the writers' imaginations we really can't say who or what this Jesus character really was or if he even existed. It's likely he is based on one or several people who seemed to make an impression on the daily lives of the people back the--enough that stories started circulating upon which the gospels are based.

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The 4 gospels give a more full picture of Jesus than just one could. Why can't Jesus be all these things?
The gospels are based in the writings and memories of people who were witnesses to what Jesus did. Accepting what sceptic historians 2000 years later say about Jesus instead of what the witnesses said and what the early church accepted and recorded about the gospels and their authorship is strange to me.
The reason that Christianity began in the first place is because of the amazing thing that was the resurrection.
Jesus made an impression partly because of the miracles and that apostles also made an impression partly because of miracles. It was not just accepting the word of a bunch of traumatized and impressionable fishermen that got the church going.
Added to this also was that it could be pointed out from the Hebrew scriptures that the Jewish Messiah was meant to suffer and die and be rejected by most Jews and rise again.

Brian2 said:

As I said, it is recorded that John was there and that the women I mentioned were there. They did not write a gospel or epistle but they would have told others what they saw and heard, just as they did on the morning they went to the tomb and saw and were told by an angel that Jesus had risen from the dead.
Why can't you accept what is recorded?
It is also recorded that Jesus showed Himself to His followers after His resurrection and spoke to them and showed the wounds in His hands from the nails and the wound in His side from the spear.
Why do you think that Christianity is a breeding ground of atheism?

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Seeing imaged emerge is a status crown of thorns.

Brain irradiation by falling gases that come to ground. Part UFO effect. Losses.

Brain burns and prickled. I learnt what it meant had it happen. Wisping black brown smoke appeared outside. Then cooling man designer images appeared so did alien.

Images saw them.

Clouds own today Jesus man on cross imagery. Seen.

As it was just Image. Teaching.who invented thesis science about God. Human men.

Theme one human. We are all one man for science status.

Did it to self.

I saw vision boxed slit machine nuclear golden rod speared side of pope.

History nuclear occult temple scientists

Adam man changed at rib side.

Jesus man status speared in side ribs.

Pope has lung ailment.

Man attacked in Jesus thesis bodily harmed also.

Reasoned why....no man is God.

We did not begin life from a mountain pyramid flood thesis UFO condition the status. Nuclear converting of dust.

It becomes nuclear fuel not any man.

Sophism. Man's cunning contrivance using descriptions.

Brian2 said:

The 4 gospels give a more full picture of Jesus than just one could. Why can't Jesus be all these things?
The gospels are based in the writings and memories of people who were witnesses to what Jesus did. Accepting what sceptic historians 2000 years later say about Jesus instead of what the witnesses said and what the early church accepted and recorded about the gospels and their authorship is strange to me.
The reason that Christianity began in the first place is because of the amazing thing that was the resurrection.
Jesus made an impression partly because of the miracles and that apostles also made an impression partly because of miracles. It was not just accepting the word of a bunch of traumatized and impressionable fishermen that got the church going.
Added to this also was that it could be pointed out from the Hebrew scriptures that the Jewish Messiah was meant to suffer and die and be rejected by most Jews and rise again.

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The information quotes that the man suffering stigmata was told by the father human lived living recording of his life now deceased was memory in heavens that his sacrificed life will also save his family.

Advice psychic. Man spiritual. A healer. Psychic. Believed in father's human spirituality. Memories in heavens. Part of conscious advice.

How was life saved?

Science says. Day sky went dark. Saving meaning vacuum sucked out extra burning sacrificed gases. Atmospheric gases as mass given extra burning.

Notification identification. A burning gas body spirit in sacrifice our life light fell out of heavens. Sacrificed spirit natural light. Light constant fell out.

Same moment dead spirits emerged human DNA lost before evidence as ground gases burnt inside God stone body.

Had been sacrificed a long time ago.

Newly born baby life man prevented life destruction by historic atmospheric history..... savior asteroid gas mass replacement. One reason.

Removal of those replaced gases by presence allowed us to survive reaction. But took life DNA back to past Moses sacrifice. DNA lost again.

End year ice stable living life removed also. Assistance to life ice melts put back water. Water body saved us.

Descriptions of reasons why.

All relevant parts of the reasoning why life survived by newly given back human DNA to having it sacrificed removed again. Involves mass itself.

Was not a holy act.

It was scientific reasoned the only advice as to why life survived. Newly born baby advice told us. Baby life in DNA lost again sacrificed.

Why we cry.

Baby images in clouds with Jesus adult man.

Ask why God did it because your brother a human quantified self to be a satanist.

Brian2 said:

The 4 gospels give a more full picture of Jesus than just one could. Why can't Jesus be all these things?
The gospels are based in the writings and memories of people who were witnesses to what Jesus did. Accepting what sceptic historians 2000 years later say about Jesus instead of what the witnesses said and what the early church accepted and recorded about the gospels and their authorship is strange to me.
The reason that Christianity began in the first place is because of the amazing thing that was the resurrection.
Jesus made an impression partly because of the miracles and that apostles also made an impression partly because of miracles. It was not just accepting the word of a bunch of traumatized and impressionable fishermen that got the church going.
Added to this also was that it could be pointed out from the Hebrew scriptures that the Jewish Messiah was meant to suffer and die and be rejected by most Jews and rise again.

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Again, I go back to the simple but undeniably powerful FACT that nobody outside the gospels (which are testimonies of faith --they are NOT history as would be recognized by any responsible historian) recorded any of the Biblical facts pertaining to Jesus. Without unbiased evidence to corroborate what is presented in these 4 testimonies of faith, we must accept what is stated about Jesus purely on faith--blind faith. The greatest miracle of our entire civilized age--the resurrection of Jesus--and we haven't a single secular historian even mentioning it in passing?????

It's beyond unbelievable. It's completely unacceptable logically.

paarsurrey said:

Excerpt from the post of friend Brian2 :
" It is recorded that John and Mary (Jesus mother) and her sister(could have been a cousin) and Mary Magdalene were there, and standing where Jesus could see them. Jesus spoke to them while dying."

But Matthew, Mark, John, and Luke were not present there and Mary- the mother and other women present there did neither write anything nor did they dictate anything to Matthew, Mark, John, and or Luke. Right?
Why cannot one accept this accuracy, please? Right?
Did Jesus give the teaching to his followers to never accept the accuracy of the matters and side with made-up things, please? Right?
These are the mythical things that Pauline-Christianity created without any teaching of innocent Jesus as to why Christianity has become a breeding ground of Atheism, I understand. Right?
#119 ^

Regards

Click to expand...

Right. The easiest way to turn a person into an atheist is to just ask him to read the Bible in its entirety. The Bible is the most powerful atheist-maker in the world right now. The reason more Christians don't turn atheist or turn to another faith is because they don't read their Bible.

capumetu said:

Simple question that Jesus once asked, yet many answer that question differently. What is your opinion?

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A Manifestation of God, a Messenger of God, a Servant of God, and the Voice of God.

viole said:

He was the only Christian in history.

ciao

- viole

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Jesus was not a Christian, He was a Jew whose coming led to the establishment of Christianity.

74x12 said:

He's God manifest in human form.

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Indeed.

1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Brian2 said:

I don't see anything about the Greek Scriptures being written for just a relatively small number of Christians. If you are told that then it sounds like a theory of the Watchtower with no support in God's Word. Is there any direct support for it or is it all just theories about what passages refer it,,,,,,,,,,,reading things into the passages?
eg. What you wrote about Matt 25:40 is not evidence, it is reading something into the passage which may or may not be there.

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Common sense will tell you the Bible was not written for those who have no care or concern about Jehovah correct? The entire Bible was written for Jehovah's people of course. Those who serve other gods obviously have their own sources. The Greek scriptures are for those in the new covenant. Many of the letters Paul wrote which are a large part of the Greek scriptures start off identifying those in whom it was written to, an example: (Romans 1:1-7) . . .Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus and called to be an apostle, . . . 7 to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones:. . .

Those holy ones are the spirit begotten Christians, those of the 144k

Riders said:

Lord and Messiah but not God. Crucified for our sins but not raised up from the dead. He was a member of the Essenes in New testament time, and started the Christian religion by bringing mysticism to Jewish folks, and possibly a member of the Messiah movement going on back then.

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Thanks maam for your input

SeekingAllTruth said:

Legends written down in the gospels have Jesus ranging anywhere from a great prophet in Mark to a demi-god in Matthew and Luke to a full-on god in John. he wore so many hats in the gospels we can't get a real picture of what he actually was. Was he an apocalyptic prophet, a shaman, a faith healer, a revolutionary, a wise teacher? Someone mention he was a conglomeration of John the Baptist and a faith healing prophet named Yeshua, this is reasonable. Since the gospels are not based on anything tangible, just the writers' imaginations we really can't say who or what this Jesus character really was or if he even existed. It's likely he is based on one or several people who seemed to make an impression on the daily lives of the people back the--enough that stories started circulating upon which the gospels are based.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Seek

Trailblazer said:

Indeed.

1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

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I like it but the verse is disputed because the "God" is controversial. It might say "he" was manifest.

But either way we believe it's still God manifest because what else could be such a "mystery of piety" other than that God was manifest?

Thank you

capumetu said:

Simple question that Jesus once asked, yet many answer that question differently. What is your opinion?

Click to expand...

Some consider him a god. Some consider him a teacher. The Romans executed him because he was the same as Osama Bin Laden in their eyes.

SeekingAllTruth said:

Right. The easiest way to turn a person into an atheist is to just ask him to read the Bible in its entirety. The Bible is the most powerful atheist-maker in the world right now. The reason more Christians don't turn atheist or turn to another faith is because they don't read their Bible.

Click to expand...

The Pauline-Christianity don't follow Jesus, they follow Paul. Right?
Paul (Saul) as he himself admits was:

1. a persecutor of the followers of Jesus and his disciples. (Right?)
2. Paul endeavored to do character assassination (Right?)
3. and also to kill Jesus preferably by death on the Cross to prove Jesus a false prophet in terms of Torah. (Right?)
4. Jesus was delivered near-dead from the Cross (as we find very certain 65 clues/reason, I understand, very much in the 4 Gospels itself, please) (Right?)
5. after the event of the Cross , Jesus secretly migrated out of Judea and out of the Roman Empire. (Right?)
6. Paul as he failed in such of his scheme, (Right?)
7. so he thought of another plan of Character Assassination of Jesus,(Right?)
8. by elevating status of Jesus from a Jewish Messenger/Prophet of God (Right?)
9. to a Son of God , then God and or God in flesh. (Right?)
10. (Sinful) Paul faked, I understand, a vision and declared/assumed for himself the title of an Apostle of Jesus/Christ, and (sinful) Paul enticed the despaired, confused and credulous (sheep) followers of Jesus. and thus accomplished his deceptive evil, as I understand, Scheme.(Right?)
11. This is how the birth of mythical Pauline-Christianity took place.
12. In the name name of Jesus, Paul became a wolf and in the appearance/garb/skin of a follower of Jesus, Paul tore up the sheep and devoured its flesh or faith, though Jesus had expressly warned against such a wolf. (Right?)

Right?

Regards
________________
65 Reasons to Believe "Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross"
Jesus Christ did not Die on the Cross - A Cardiologist’s Perspective | Review of Religions
The Crucifixion of Jesus Christ(as) - An Alternative Reading of the Four Gospels | Review of Religions

paarsurrey said:

The Pauline-Christianity don't follow Jesus, they follow Paul. Right?
Paul (Saul) as he himself admits was:

1. a persecutor of the followers of Jesus and his disciples. (Right?)
2. Paul endeavored to do character assassination (Right?)
3. and also to kill Jesus preferably by death on the Cross to prove Jesus a false prophet in terms of Torah. (Right?)
4. Jesus was delivered near-dead from the Cross (as we find very certain 65 clues/reason, I understand, very much in the 4 Gospels itself, please) (Right?)
5. after the event of the Cross , Jesus secretly migrated out of Judea and out of the Roman Empire. (Right?)
6. Paul as he failed in such of his scheme, (Right?)
7. so he thought of another plan of Character Assassination of Jesus,(Right?)
8. by elevating status of Jesus from a Jewish Messenger/Prophet of God (Right?)
9. to a Son of God , then God and or God in flesh. (Right?)
10. (Sinful) Paul faked, I understand, a vision and declared/assumed for himself the title of an Apostle of Jesus/Christ, and (sinful) Paul enticed the despaired, confused and credulous (sheep) followers of Jesus. and thus accomplished his deceptive evil, as I understand, Scheme.(Right?)
11. This is how the birth of mythical Pauline-Christianity took place.
12. In the name name of Jesus, Paul became a wolf and in the appearance/garb/skin of a follower of Jesus, Paul tore up the sheep and devoured its flesh or faith, though Jesus had expressly warned against such a wolf. (Right?)

Right?

Regards
________________
65 Reasons to Believe "Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross"
Jesus Christ did not Die on the Cross - A Cardiologist’s Perspective | Review of Religions
The Crucifixion of Jesus Christ(as) - An Alternative Reading of the Four Gospels | Review of Religions

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I personally have no qualms with any of this. I think some might not be supported by history, though I'm not sure, but I believe Paul's intent was to establish a Christianity different from the one Jesus had sought to establish. He admitted to lying to create his brand of faith in Jesus. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out he lied about his vision to get the ball rolling.

SeekingAllTruth said:

He admitted to lying to create his brand of faith in Jesus. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out he lied about his vision to get the ball rolling.

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When and where did Paul admit to lying?

Kelly of the Phoenix said:

Some consider him a god. Some consider him a teacher. The Romans executed him because he was the same as Osama Bin Laden in their eyes.

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I cannot disagree maam, I believe that all those things are true.

SeekingAllTruth said:

I personally have no qualms with any of this. I think some might not be supported by history, though I'm not sure, but I believe Paul's intent was to establish a Christianity different from the one Jesus had sought to establish. He admitted to lying to create his brand of faith in Jesus. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out he lied about his vision to get the ball rolling.

Click to expand...

The problem is that we don't know for sure whether the Paul of history was the same personality as the author or initiator of the oldest Pauline letters. The initiator of the oldest parts of those "Pauline" letters may have been the first century mystic Simon Magus.
We don't know whether this Simon Magus objected to the actual teachings of Jesus or to an early version of Christianity that had already diverted from that original mission of Jesus.

The Marcionite version of Christianity leaned more towards the teachings of Simon Magus, but the orthodox version of Christianity is a much less ideological and a more syncretic mix that relies more on rituals than on real spiritual practices.

Marcion said:

The problem is that we don't know for sure whether the Paul of history was the same personality as the author or initiator of the oldest Pauline letters. The initiator of the oldest parts of those "Pauline" letters may have been the first century mystic Simon Magus.
We don't know whether this Simon Magus objected to the actual teachings of Jesus or to an early version of Christianity that had already diverted from that original mission of Jesus.

The Marcionite version of Christianity leaned more towards the teachings of Simon Magus, but the orthodox version of Christianity is a much less ideological and a more syncretic mix that relies more on rituals than on real spiritual practices.

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Exactly. This is why I loudly insist God had nothing to do with Christianity's founding. It was purely a matter of political events involving Israel--Jerusalem's destruction, the loss of the temple, the need to dispense with the animal sacrifice because of no temple, the idea that a permanent sacrifice of a son of god for all sins for all time to solve the problem of no more animal sacrifices, the corruption of the Jesus doctrine by Paul, then Simon, then, Marcion, then the scribes from the very beginning. To think God had anything to do with this clusterfact is to see him as a complete inept bumbling boob, not able to control which way he wanted his son's religion to veer. The whole notion God was involved in any of this mess is preposterous.