Sorry Ken. I almost entirely forgot I was to respond to this post. My apologies. getting old.
I totally agree!!
My application of what I meant is further below!
Love it!
And again totally agree! You can't make scriptures say anything you want
So... one example of what I meant. When Jesus shared that there was a rich man and a poor man Lazarus and the rich man woke up in a place of torment while Lazaurs was in Abraham's blossom.
One group will say it is a parable and it is symbolism and the another group says that it was real. Each side convinced and supporting their position. If, as in other cases, the scriptures would have said, "And Jesus shared parable" - there would be no disagreement but it doesn't say that so you have "two interpretations"
Not every place in the Bible says directly that Jesus was relating a parable, so I would not consider that a reasonable and valid argument.
For example, at Luke 10:30-37 the scriptures do not say, this is a parable, but does that mean we don't know that it is?
At Luke 13:6-9, he does say it is an illustration...
Then he went on to tell this illustration: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit on it, but found none...
Likewise, at Luke 14:16-24, Jesus does not say, this is an illustration, but we know it was.
How do we know?
Consider... Luke 15:11-16:31
11 Then he said: “A certain man had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the part of the property that falls to my share.’ Then he divided his means of living to them. 13 Later, after not many days, the younger son gathered all things together and traveled abroad into a distant country, and there squandered his property by living a debauched life... {Prodigal son]
1 Then he went on to say also to the disciples: “A certain man was rich and he had a steward, and this one was accused to him as handling his goods wastefully. 2 So he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Hand in the account of your stewardship, for you can no longer manage the house.’ ... [Unforgiving steward]
14 Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him. 15 Consequently he said to them: “YOU are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows YOUR hearts; because what is lofty among men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight. 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on the kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it. 17 Indeed, it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one particle of a letter of the Law to go unfulfilled. 18 “Everyone that divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he that marries a woman divorced from a husband commits adultery. 19 “But a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence. 20 But a certain beggar named Lazarus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers ...
Did you notice?
There are at least two things to consider here... 1. Do you view the prodigal son as a parable, or a real account? 2. The context from the beginning of Chapter 15 onward, tells us what?
I will listen to you first, then speak.
Will ones view change ones eternal destiny? I don't think so. Does that mean one side is on the wrong path during Armageddon? No. IMV.
Yes, Ken. It can't be "anything is acceptable". We know that's not how things work in life, don't we? Both can't be true. A is either A, or it is not A. A can't be A, and yet not A. Logic.
However, I want to hear you.
Why is it that way when it comes to the Bible... in your view.
Will some be on the wrong path? Absolutely! Jesus said, "You called me Lord but I don't know you". On that issue it is so black and white there is no room for misinterpretation.
Misinterpretation happens all the time... especially though, when, in my view, we don't let the Bible give the explanation, but rather, we ignore other passages that would disagree with our view, and then try to make the scriptures fit our views.
I hope that made it clear.
Of course. I have you covered.
So... whatever the body is like, we all agree it is an eternal body and a heavenly body. Does that mean it isn't physical? We assume that somehow something physical translates that it isn't spiritual yet, as I see it, Adam's body was both physical and spiritual. I don't think that they are needed to be two separate entities but rather are one. When God created the earth in the light (God is light) - I see it as both spiritual and physical and since there was no sin there was no death.
Thank you Ken. This is what I was saying a moment ago.
Is it our view that makes scripture what it is, or do we let scripture be what it is? 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 All scripture is inspired by God, and beneficial
for teaching,
for setting things straight... so that the man of God may be ... completely equipted for every good work.
So it's more about what the Bible says, rather than our view. Our view matters not. That's why as you quoted earlier, Jesus rejects those who don't want to learn. The Pharisees were on the top of his list of people who wanted to follow their own doctrines (views), rather than God's word.
So again, I want to hear you. Can you please point me to the scripture that says that Adam or anyone else's "body was both physical and spiritual".
Thus the need of a new earth.
I don't understand what you mean. The new earth to change what?
I'm thinking we have God's word to change hearts, and correct wrong thinking which follows pride.
So before the new earth comes, some of us, who allow pride to prevent us from accepting what the Bible says, will change, and look forward to being rewarded with everlasting life, in the new world, but the new earth will not change us to being humble. Isn't that so?
It depends on us allowing our thinking to be corrected. Don't you agree? Humbling ourselves.
No... I would never say "I am the pastor". And I never teach what I don't know too. I always say one of the best answers is "I don't know but I will study to find out" vs just sounding spiritual with a bad answer. It is too dangerous to play with spiritual lives.
That's a good spirit.
As Jesus said, "You are not far from the kingdom." ...but you need to break away Ken! Make a run for it!
Bad joke.
I would say Jesus was separated from God because "the wages of sin is death" - separation from God. The only way Jesus could have died is by taking on our sin since he was sinless. When Jesus said "Why have thou forsaken me" - it was the first time he was without God's presence.
I understand that when we read the Bible, we may allow our reasoning to run away with us.
I have done that before, and was corrected. yes. I allowed myself to be corrected. No, it was not by man.
2 Timothy 3:16, 17
All scripture is inspired by God, and beneficial for teaching, for setting things straight... so that the man of God may be ... completely equipted for every good work.
I allowed God's word to correct me.
So, say I did reason as you did, what scriptures should correct me?
I'm thinking... Hebrews 4:15, 16
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin. 16 Let us, then, approach the throne of undeserved kindness with freeness of speech, so that we may receive mercy and find undeserved kindness to help us at the right time.
There is a reason, isn't there, why Jesus could not be with sin at any point in his life.
If he was, that would disqualify him from being the perfect, or corresponding ransom. Is that not so?
I want to hear you though. I feel sure you have one or two. What scripture(s) do you say disagrees with this?
