Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There was never any such thing as a "bodily" resurrection. That belief came about as the result of a complete misunderstanding certain Bible verses.
Won’t the Dead Rise Again?
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Is it ok to get cremated if you believe you will be resurrected?
- Thread starter filthyrottendirty
- Start date
Won’t the Dead Rise Again?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, there is no hiding place, but it is not the body that needs to hide, it is the soul, because it is not the body that will be judged, it is the soul. Any sins that are committed are committed by the soul, the body is just a vehicle that the soul used to commit those sins. There will be no physical bodies in heaven, so how can a body be judged?
Jesus said that we would lose our soul if we savored the things of the body that are not of God instead of following Him.
Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Recreated or transformed, it means the same thing.
Paul tells it like it is going to be in a few verses. Physical bodies to not rise from their graves.
After the physical body dies, a spiritual body rises from the physical body and that is how we are transformed into a body that will never die.
1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
Cremation is prohibited by many religions because cremation interferes with the natural death process of the soul leaving the body, bearing in mind that the soul does not always leave the body right away, it might hover over the body and gradually leave.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
IMO, this is a misunderstanding of what the scriptures mean by the term "spiritual body."There was never any such thing as a "bodily" resurrection. That belief came about as the result of a complete misunderstanding certain Bible verses.
Won’t the Dead Rise Again?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What do you believe they mean?
Paul said that heavenly bodies (spiritual bodies) are different from the earthly bodies (physical bodies). Paul never mentioned any kind of hybrid body that is half physical and half spiritual. Please note that Jesus never spoke of such a hybrid body either. As such the Christian belief in physical-spiritual bodies is just a belief that came about by misunderstanding what the scriptures mean.
Paul said that our dying bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. That means the bodies cannot be physical bodies because physical bodies die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul said these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he was referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.
1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
Read full chapter
There are a lot of people willing to have their heads chopped off and frozen with the idea that some time in the future they could get an artificial body.
Yet, that day is no time soon.
WalterTrull
Godfella
Man, I sure wouldn't want this body back again. Ready to dump it. Will wait for natural sequence of events, but am really ready.
Roguish
Member
God won't be resurrecting your current physical body anyway, regardless of whether your remains get cremated, buried, or otherwise disposed of. In truth, resurrection is what happens at the end of the aeon (i.e. the end of the life-span of the present universe): all souls are judged, and that involves waking up any souls that may be in a non-conscious slumbering state. In that sense, they are brought back from "death", and this is what is called Resurrection.
I write the above not with the intent of trampling on your beliefs, but to make a modest attempt at protecting you from the harmful consequences of belief in physical resurrection. Such belief is not only incorrect, but actually quite dangerous. It encourages strong identification with (and attachment to) your current identity, and this can (and likely will) trigger reincarnation shortly after your present life, thus trapping you into endless cycles of rebirth in this deteriorating, evil world. I urge you to let go of your hope of resurrection of your physical body, and more generally of yourself as you are as a person in this world. Set your hopes on something much better.
For Biblical support of my point that it is not your physical body that will get resurrected, but a different kind of body, search the web for "paul glorified body" and you will find a vast amount of information.
Kind regards.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Okay, we're using a lot of different words here: heavenly, earthly, spiritual, physical, immortal, and mortal. I fully agree that our heavenly bodies will not be like our earthly bodies. But I believe you are equating "physical" with "mortal" and "spiritual" with "immortal." That's where I think you're on the wrong track. Jesus' physical body was resurrected and given new life. It no longer laid lifeless in the tomb. But just because He had a body that had "flesh and bones" (which He specifically pointed out to His Apostles), that body was not a mortal body. It was no longer subject to disease, deformity, or death. It was physical in the respect that it was corporeal; it had a physical form and could be touched and felt. It was no longer sustained by the life-giving blood that a mortal body needs to survive. Instead, it was sustained solely by spirit.
So, "physical" does not necessarily mean "mortal"; it means "corporeal." I would agree that our mortal bodies will not go to heaven. I believe the scriptures are saying that the bodies we have in heaven will be corporeal but not mortal. They will be immortal; we can never die again. We will have perfect, glorified, celestial bodies sustained by spirit, which is the source of all life. We will never again feel pain or discomfort or be subject to injury or death.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Don't worry, you will not get a physical body after you die, you will get a spiritual body, so you won't have any more aches and pains or anything weighing you down.
“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus was resurrected and neither did Paul believe that. Paul believed in a spiritual resurrection. I believe that Christians got off the wrong track because of what Luke said about touching Jesus and saying he had flesh and bones. I believe that the gospels that were written later were just stories, nothing that ever occurred in real life. I am sure you know that Luke was not written by Luke the apostle, it was written by a man who write what had been passed down to him by way of oral tradition, and Christians believed it because that is what the Church taught, which was passed down through the generations.
You said: “But just because He had a body that had "flesh and bones" (which He specifically pointed out to His Apostles), that body was not a mortal body. It was no longer subject to disease, deformity, or death.” The problem with that belief is that flesh and bones are mortal and mortal means subject to physical death. Mortal bodies are also subject to disease and deformity because they are made of physical elements that can cause disease, and all mortal bodies will die eventually. Only the soul is immortal.
I know of no scriptures that say that the bodies we have in heaven will be corporeal but not mortal.
Corporeal describes something that has a physical form. It is the opposite of spiritual or emotional. Something that is corporeal exists in the real world. It's sort of a fancy way of saying bodily or physical.
corporeal - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
There is no such thing as a physical body that is immortal because no physical body lives forever. Paul said we would be raised in a spiritual body and Paul differentiated physical bodies from spiritual bodies. A spiritual body is not physical. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that there is a physical body that is immortal (can live forever).
1 Corinthians 15:50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
You said: “It was physical in the respect that it was corporeal; it had a physical form and could be touched and felt. It was no longer sustained by the life-giving blood that a mortal body needs to survive. Instead, it was sustained solely by spirit.” The problem with what you said is that it is not in the Bible so that means it is a doctrine the Church made up by reading verses and putting them together with other verses and making assumptions about what they mean.
I think the reason Christians believe what they do about having a physical body like they do now, one that can never die, is because they believe Jesus was raised in such a body, and also because they want such a body, so they are attached to the idea of having a body like the one they have that can do all the things it does now but never get sick or die, but that is not in the Bible and it cannot be supported by what is in the Bible. Moreover, heaven is not physical in any way; it is a purely spiritual dimension, so there will not be eating and drinking and having sex. Those days are over after we die physically. Some people do not want to face that fact but they will have to face it after they die, so I think it is best that they come to terms with it before they die since that will make the transition a lot easier.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree, Trailblazer. You are firm in your beliefs and I am firm in mine. I guess someday we'll both find out who was right and who was wrong.
The Baha'i law is also burial. The body comes into being gradually by the combination of elements and should be allowed to decompose.
The Spirit is eternal, it does not die. Death is neglect of the spiritual virtues within us.
That is why Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. We can be eternally alive in the Love and service to Christ, death does not need a material body and we never come back to this world.
It's a big topic, happy to discuss if you would like to know more of what the Baha'i Writings offer.
Regards Tony
I would like to hear more how they explain it. Do you know why they think so?
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
I believe you shouldn't cremate your body our of respect for it - but we are all going to get Resurrected no matter what.
I have no objection to cremation nor would I object to being cremated myself. So long as the ashes are treated with the utmost respect and are laid to rest properly in a cemetery.
As to the original post. I don't think it is tenable to claim that cremation in itself implies a denial of a future resurrection. Nor is it tenable to claim that cremation could in any way impede God's power to resurrect the body.
As to the original post. I don't think it is tenable to claim that cremation in itself implies a denial of a future resurrection. Nor is it tenable to claim that cremation could in any way impede God's power to resurrect the body.
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capumetu
Active Member
Great question! Many Christians get cremated. Your body does what God said it would, return to dust. The original will not be resurrected, many becoming food for other beings. Your conscious being will be given a new perfect body, unless you survive through the great tribulation in which you will not have to die.
filthyrottendirty
Member
How do you know I won't be going to hell?
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capumetu
Active Member
Everybody who dies goes to hell sir. Even Jesus went there, but hell is only temporary, have you heard of the resurrection?
filthyrottendirty
Member
You misunderstood. I want talking about that hell. I was talking talking this one.
Revelation 20:14,15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.