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What is the meaning of Brahman's dreams or illusions (Maya) in Advaita Vedanta?

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Does Maya ever end for one entire cosmological cycle and then a new Maya begins? Does Brahman ever fully realize Itself? What happens when he does?

Was Maya intentional or is the illusion of separateness just something that happens to Brahman? If it's intentional - what is the purpose of it? Is Brahman teaching Itself something? But if Brahman is the only thing that exists what lessons would it need to learn?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
The purpose is to experience finite existence and the joy of advancement from ignorance and separateness to Brahman-Realization and Oneness.
Is the only reason for the experience alone? If so isn't that nihilistic as there isn't an overall meaning just basically Brahman is doing this to Itself for fun?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Does Maya ever end for one entire cosmological cycle and then a new Maya begins? Does Brahman ever fully realize Itself? What happens when he does?

Was Maya intentional or is the illusion of separateness just something that happens to Brahman? If it's intentional - what is the purpose of it? Is Brahman teaching Itself something? But if Brahman is the only thing that exists what lessons would it need to learn?

You are certainly not the first person to ask, "Why Maya?"

But I consider this to be a bad question, or more accurately, a question that cannot be answered in vyavaharika, one's perception in transactional reality. It's akin to asking one's dream-self in a dream, "Why am I dreaming?" On this side of Maya, there is no answer. On the other side of Maya, there is no question.

As far as the duration of Maya, in my understanding, it begins when one becomes ignorant of the fact that one is Brahman and ends upon Moksha.

Here's what I consider to be a great lecture by Swami Sarvapriyananda who heads up the Vedanta Society of New York. Well worth taking the time to listen to:

 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
You are certainly not the first person to ask, "Why Maya?"

But I consider this to be a bad question, or more accurately, a question that cannot be answered in vyavaharika, one's perception in transactional reality. It's akin to asking one's dream-self in a dream, "Why am I dreaming?" On this side of Maya, there is no answer. On the other side of Maya, there is no question.

As far as the duration of Maya, in my understanding, it begins when one become ignorant of the fact that one is Brahman and ends upon Moksha.

Here's what I consider to be a great lecture by Swami Sarvapriyananda who heads up the Vedanta Society of New York. Well worth taking the time to listen to:

I will watch that at a better time, thank you.

As far as the duration of Maya, in my understanding, it begins when one become ignorant of the fact that one is Brahman and ends upon Moksha.

But will all Jivas throughout the universe realize their true self/Brahman eventually or will there always be "aspects" of Brahman stuck in Maya?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
But will all Jivas throughout the universe realize their true self/Brahman eventually or will there always be "aspects" of Brahman stuck in Maya?

In my understanding, time is intrinsic to Maya. Vivekananda stated Maya is time/space/causation. Maya is a product of avidya (incorrect knowledge, ignorance of self as Brahman as a result of attachment to Maya). There is no eventuality in Paramartika because time is illusory. So if avidya is present, there will be Maya.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
In my understanding, time is intrinsic to Maya. Vivekananda stated Maya is time/space/causation. Maya is a product of avidya (incorrect knowledge, ignorance of self as Brahman as a result of attachment to Maya). There is no eventuality in Paramartika because time is illusory. So if avidya is present, there will be Maya.
Sorry if I misunderstood you, I have a lot of catching up to do with Hindu concepts and those confusing Sanskirt terminologies.

Is there not a Point A where Avidya exists and a Point B where Moksha is achieved? If so, how are they not two separate occasions along the scale of time? And why can't we then define a point where Brahman as one is relieved from Maya completely and fully becomes aware of Itself?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Sorry if I misunderstood you, I have a lot of catching up to do with Hindu concepts and those confusing Sanskirt terminologies.

No need to apologize. I'm happy to clarify anything you don't fully understand. I do my best when I do use a Sanskrit term to put a recognized English meaning along with it. If I miss doing so on occasion, that's on me.

Is there not a Point A where Avidya exists and a Point B where Moksha is achieved? If so, how are they not two separate occasions along the scale of time? And why can't we then define a point where Brahman as one is relieved from Maya completely and fully becomes aware of Itself?

It is the the individual (jiva) that becomes aware of it's true nature as Brahman; it is not Brahman that becomes aware of itself. Brahman is pure consciousness...pure awareness. Just as the sun does not shine upon itself, Brahman is not aware of itself. Brahman has no dichotomy of I/other. There is nothing for Brahman to become. Brahman is immutable.

The "scale of time" only exists from the perspective of a jiva in transactional reality (vyavaharika). It does not exist from the perspective of Brahman (Paramartika). A jiva can achieve Moksha, and another jiva can observe this phenomenon at a point in time from the perspective of vyavaharika, but at that point, the first jiva (now jivanmukta) is unconcerned with points A and B or the "scale of time," as it is no longer subject to vyavaharika or trapped by the "scale of time" in the cycle of rebirth (samsara).

Avidya does not exist on its own accord. It is a jiva's attachment to Maya that creates it. Therefore, it does not disappear on its own accord. It only goes away when the jiva realizes its true nature as Brahman.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
No need to apologize. I'm happy to clarify anything you don't fully understand. I do my best when I do use a Sanskrit term to put a recognized English meaning along with it. If I miss doing so on occasion, that's on me.



It is the the individual (jiva) that becomes aware of it's true nature as Brahman; it is not Brahman that becomes aware of itself. Brahman is pure consciousness...pure awareness. Just as the sun does not shine upon itself, Brahman is not aware of itself. Brahman has no dichotomy of I/other. There is nothing for Brahman to become. Brahman is immutable.

Then what happens to the Jiva that becomes aware of its true nature and then reaches Moksha? My understanding is that Jiva is obliterated and all that is left is Atman/Brahman. But what does that entail? Perhaps oblivion from the perspective of Jivas which is synonymous with Allness to the "perspective" of Brahman?

The "scale of time" only exists from the perspective of a jiva in transactional reality (vyavaharika). It does not exist from the perspective of Brahman (Paramartika). A jiva can achieve Moksha, and another jiva can observe this phenomenon at a point in time from the perspective of vyavaharika, but at that point, the first jiva (now jivanmukta) is unconcerned with points A and B or the "scale of time," as it is no longer subject to vyavaharika or trapped by the "scale of time" in the cycle of rebirth (samsara).

Avidya does not exist on its own accord. It is a jiva's attachment to Maya that creates it. Therefore, it does not disappear on its own accord. It only goes away when the jiva realizes its true nature as Brahman.
So let me ask you this; could Maya exist without Avidya? And will (for the lack of a chronological tense that indicates timelessness) Avidya ever be completely eradicated and Jivas are all awakened to their true nature?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Then what happens to the Jiva that becomes aware of its true nature and then reaches Moksha? My understanding is that Jiva is obliterated and all that is left is Atman/Brahman. But what does that entail? Perhaps oblivion from the perspective of Jivas which is synonymous with Allness to the "perspective" of Brahman?

A jiva can be liberated while living. Such a being is known as a jivanmukta, liberated while living. A jivanmukta does not simply withdraw from their life upon liberation; the continue on with their life, but everything experiences is from an entirely different perspective. They become stable in their realization of Brahman, and behaviors change, as they see their own divinity in everyone and everything.

Upon death, a jivanmukta is released from samsara if it so chooses. Alternately, it can return for the welfare of others.

So let me ask you this; could Maya exist without Avidya?

I don't see how. If there is no avidya, what would be left to perceive Maya?

And will (for the lack of a chronological tense that indicates timelessness) Avidya ever be completely eradicated and Jivas are all awakened to their true nature?

Any answer I offer to this question would be pure speculation. I honestly don't know, and I'm not sure anyone does. All I can say on this is that as long as there is attachment to Maya, there will be avidya.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
A jiva can be liberated while living. Such a being is known as a jivanmukta, liberated while living. A jivanmukta does not simply withdraw from their life upon liberation; the continue on with their life, but everything experiences is from an entirely different perspective. They become stable in their realization of Brahman, and behaviors change, as they see their own divinity in everyone and everything.

Upon death, a jivanmukta is released from samsara if it so chooses. Alternately, it can return for the welfare of others.



I don't see how. If there is no avidya, what would be left to perceive Maya?



Any answer I offer to this question would be pure speculation. I honestly don't know, and I'm not sure anyone does. All I can say on this is that as long as there is attachment to Maya, there will be avidya.
When you imagine a jivanmukti being released from samsara, what do you imagine?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
When you imagine a jivanmukti being released from samsara, what do you imagine?

It is a jiva is released from samsara. A jivanmukta already has been.

Liberation (release from samsara) occurs when a person becomes stable in their being as Brahman, existence/conscious/bliss (satcitananda), and no longer identifies the body/mind complex as "I." It's a yogic process; it doesn't happen with the flick of a switch (though spontaneous mystical experience may expedite the process). There is no longer any attachment to or desire for anything temporal. One recognizes oneself as divine and sees that same being in all other beings.
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Does Maya ever end for one entire cosmological cycle and then a new Maya begins? Does Brahman ever fully realize Itself? What happens when he does?

Was Maya intentional or is the illusion of separateness just something that happens to Brahman? If it's intentional - what is the purpose of it? Is Brahman teaching Itself something? But if Brahman is the only thing that exists what lessons would it need to learn?

I'm still relatively new to this stuff, but I think Brahman is the underlying reality, and Maya is the way that humans usually experience it.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
It is a jiva is released from samsara. A jivanmukta already has been.

Liberation (release from samsara) occurs when a person becomes stable in their being as Brahman, existence/conscious/bliss (satcitananda), and no longer identifies the body/mind complex as "I." It's a yogic process; it doesn't happen with the flick of a switch (though spontaneous mystical experience may expedite the process). There is no longer any attachment to or desire for anything temporal. One recognizes oneself as divine and sees that same being in all other beings.
I meant Moksha specifically, as in oneness after death. If there is no more samsara then what is there?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
But if Brahman is doesn't become aware of itself, doesn't pure being as Brahman basically mean the lack of awareness?

It does not. It is pure awareness...pure consciousness.

Expanding on the sun analogy, the sun does not shine upon itself, but in the absence of planets, it does not stop emitting heat and light.
 
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