When "Inerrant" Really Means "Full Of Errors"

Trailblazer said:

I do not have to twist any scriptures because Baha'u'llah was the Spirit Truth.
Christians believe everything in the Bible is about Jesus, but it's not. Any verses that refer to the return of Christ or the Messiah of the latter days are about Baha'u'llah. Jesus never promised to return in the same body, He said He was never coming back to the world (John 14:19, John 17:11).

Jesus promised to send the Comforter/Spirit of Truth, which was Baha'u'llah.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

One of the various proofs of Baha’u’llah is that He did exactly what Jesus said the Comforter and Spirit of Truth would do. Referring to Jesus, Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus and glorified Jesus.

Referring to Jesus, Baha'u'llah wrote:

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86

Baha’u’llah also fulfilled the other translation of John 15:26 by bearing witness to Jesus.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes forth from with the Father, *he* shall bear witness concerning me;

Referring to Jesus, Baha'u'llah wrote:

“We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86

Click to expand...

Jesus was talking to the people in front of them and how they would benefit, not some individual 2000 years later. The spirt came, its here now, billions of other Christians get it if you don't. No point in arguing about it with someone from an entirely different religion.

cOLTER said:

Jesus was speaking to his apostles and to the times right after his ascension going forward up to today. The spirit of truth is still here with us now as it was then.

The spirt of the Son of God combined with the spirit of the Father has been with us since the day of Pentecost.

Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit was indeed sent at Pentecost and maybe it is still with some Christians, but the Holy Spirit was sent again in the last days, and those last days came in the 19th century when Baha'u'llah came. This is all in your own Bible (see below).

I believe that the Holy Spirit was sent by God on the Day of Pentecost because that is in the Bible...

Acts 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

But that does not mean that the verses in John 14, John 15 and John 16 are referring to the Day of Pentecost. There is no logical reason to think that these verses in John that refer to the Holy Spirit are referring to the Day of Pentecost, but that came to be a Church teaching, so Christians just accepted it and believe it to this very day.

The problem with the Christian belief that the Holy Spirit was sent once and for all time on the Day of Pentecost is that right in that same chapter, we have this account that says that God will send the Holy Spirit again in the last days. The last days are when Christ promised to return and fulfill the prophecies below (Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:24-26) which are the same as what is found in Revelation 6:12-13.

Acts 2:17-21 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:17-21 fits together perfectly with the following verses in John where Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit from the Father.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

All the prophecies in the Acts 2:17-21 have been fulfilled and they are the same prophecies in other verses that are noted below. This is the evidence that shows us that the Son of man has already returned.

Rev 6:12-13 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mark 13:24-26 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

cOLTER said:

Jesus was talking to the people in front of them and how they would benefit, not some individual 2000 years later. The spirit came, its here now, billions of other Christians get it if you don't. No point in arguing about it with someone from an entirely different religion.

Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit came and then it came again.
Do you really think the Almighty God is limited to sending the Holy Spirit once and for all time?

#322 Trailblazer, A moment ago

Billions of Christians might get it but the other 70% of the world population does not get Christianity.

List of religious populations - Wikipedia

That is not what Jesus meant by one fold and one shepherd. The other 30% of the world population are not going to be gathered together by Jesus but they will eventually be gathered together by Baha'u'llah.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Trailblazer said:

The Holy Spirit came and then it came again.
Do you really think the Almighty God is limited to sending the Holy Spirit once and for all time?

#322 Trailblazer, A moment ago

Billions of Christians might get it but the other 70% of the world population does not get Christianity.

List of religious populations - Wikipedia

That is not what Jesus meant by one fold and one shepherd. The other 30% of the world population are not going to be gathered together by Jesus but they will eventually be gathered together by Baha'u'llah.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Click to expand...

It never left, the spirit of truth is a permanent presence and available to all truth seekers in the world and from that day. The spirit isn't a separate spirit from the Son, it IS the spirit of that very Son who ascended into heaven.

cOLTER said:

It never left, the spirit of truth is a permanent presence and available to all truth seekers in the world and from that day. The spirit isn't a separate spirit from the Son, it IS the spirit of that very Son who ascended into heaven.

Click to expand...

The Spirit of Truth is a person, not a spirit. The truth He brought is available to all truth seekers in the world.

SeekingAllTruth said:

Not too soon. Your own input is very valuable. I learn a lot from it too.

Click to expand...

Don't worry, I'm not that easy to get rid of, and as long as there is a debate going on I ain't going anywhere.

Trailblazer said:

The Spirit of Truth is a person, not a spirit. The truth He brought is available to all truth seekers in the world.

Click to expand...

The Son of God, the Bible and billions of Christians disagree with you.

cOLTER said:

The Son of God, the Bible and billions of Christians disagree with you.

Click to expand...

70% of the world population disagrees with those Christians.
What are you going to do to change their minds?

The Bible and Jesus do not disagree with me, they agree with me.

@ SeekingAllTruth

When Christians cannot respond to what I post as evidence that my beliefs are true, right from their own Bible, that is when you know that have no answers that could prove I am wrong....

Trailblazer said:

70% of the world population disagrees with those Christians.
What are you going to do to change their minds?

The Bible and Jesus do not disagree with me, they agree with me.

Click to expand...

Different people have different interpretations of the Bible. One of the reasons that there are countless Christian sects.

Trailblazer said:

@ SeekingAllTruth

When Christians cannot respond to what I post as evidence that my beliefs are true, right from their own Bible, that is when you know that have no answers that could prove I am wrong....

Click to expand...

I have already debunked your claims and from the Bible. Jesus returned from the dead, Baha'u'llah is dead. Jesus ascended into Heaven, Baha'u'llah is dead. The spirit of truth was poored out upon all flesh, Baha'u'llah is dead.

cOLTER said:

I have already debunked your claims and from the Bible. Jesus returned from the dead, Baha'u'llah is dead. Jesus ascended into Heaven, Baha'u'llah is dead. The spirit of truth was poored out upon all flesh, Baha'u'llah is dead.

Click to expand...

Only in your eyes. Your interpretation is different from hers, and the interpretation of a third person will be different from both of yours.

And guess what? Jesus is dead too.

Subduction Zone said:

Only in your eyes. Your interpretation is different from hers, and the interpretation of a third person will be different from both of yours.

And guess what? Jesus is dead too.

Click to expand...

Jesus returned from the dead which was witnessed by hundreds of people. Then he returned to his headquarters in heaven.

Can you prove that Jesus is dead?

cOLTER said:

Jesus returned from the dead which was witnessed by hundreds of people. Then he returned to his headquarters in heaven.

Can you prove that Jesus us dead?

Click to expand...

NO, no no. The Bible only claims that it was witnessed by hundreds of people. No mention of him outside of that book when it comes to coming back. And I like how you in effect admitted to being wrong. When it comes to extraordinary claims the burden of proof lies upon the person making the claim. Not the other way around. I can provide evidence that he is dead. And that he was probably left on the cross.. You on the other hand only have a book of myths.

Subduction Zone said:

Different people have different interpretations of the Bible. One of the reasons that there are countless Christian sects.

Click to expand...

That's right, but I have never gotten a Christian to acknowledge that there are many different interpretations. In fact, they do not even think there is any such thing as an interpretation, they say the Bible interprets itself.

Of course all Christians BELIEVE they know what the Bible means, and if other Christians disagree with them, those Christians are wrong. But they have no answer when I ask them why they are right and the other Christians are wrong.

Some Christians say "the Bible says" but obviously if the Bible is talking it is saying many different things to many different people.

Thanks for joining the thread. I always appreciate your input.

cOLTER said:

I have already debunked your claims and from the Bible. Jesus returned from the dead, Baha'u'llah is dead. Jesus ascended into Heaven, Baha'u'llah is dead. The spirit of truth was poored out upon all flesh, Baha'u'llah is dead.

Click to expand...

You cannot debunk anything with a personal opinion, you need actual evidence.

The body of Jesus is no more alive than the body of Baha'u'llah. The body of Jesus is as dead as a door-nail.
The souls of both Jesus and Baha'u'llah are alive in heaven in a spiritual body.

Baha'u'llah was the Spirit of Truth that Jesus promised to send is self-evident by the Bible verses that say what the Spirit of Truth will do, which is exactly what Baha'u'llah did. That's called evidence and you cannot refute evidence with a personal opinion.

cOLTER said:

Jesus returned from the dead which was witnessed by hundreds of people. Then he returned to his headquarters in heaven.

Click to expand...

A story about Jesus rising from the grave and witnesses who saw Him is only a story, it is not evidence unless someone OUTSIDE of the story can corroborate the story. Nobody has ever corroborated the resurrection story. Anyone can write a story but that story is not proof that anything in that story actually happened.

The soul of Jesus did return to His headquarters in heaven, and that is exactly where it will stay because souls cannot return to Earth once they ascend to heaven.

cOLTER said:

Can you prove that Jesus is dead?

Click to expand...

Can you prove Jesus is alive? The burden of proof is on the claimant.

Trailblazer said:

You cannot debunk anything with a personal opinion, you need actual evidence.

The body of Jesus is no more alive than the body of Baha'u'llah. The body of Jesus is as dead as a door-nail.
The souls of both Jesus and Baha'u'llah are alive in heaven in a spiritual body.

Baha'u'llah was the Spirit of Truth that Jesus promised to send is self-evident by the Bible verses that say what the Spirit of Truth will do, which is exactly what Baha'u'llah did. That's called evidence and you cannot refute evidence with a personal opinion.

Click to expand...

Baha'u'llah didn't preform any miracles, resurrect anyone from the dead nor did he return from the dead. Only people who aren't well versed in the scriptures will be susceptible to the cult of personality around Baha'u'llah.

Trailblazer said:

A story about Jesus rising from the grave and witnesses who saw Him is only a story, it is not evidence unless someone OUTSIDE of the story can corroborate the story. Nobody has ever corroborated the resurrection story. Anyone can write a story but that story is not proof that anything in that story actually happened.

The soul of Jesus did return to His headquarters in heaven, and that is exactly where it will stay because souls cannot return to Earth once they ascend to heaven.

Can you prove Jesus is alive? The burden of proof is on the claimant.

Click to expand...

This is where you are shown to be a false teacher, you source the Bible as your authority in one argument but then deny the Bible in the next.

Subduction Zone said:

NO, no no. The Bible only claims that it was witnessed by hundreds of people. No mention of him outside of that book when it comes to coming back. And I like how you in effect admitted to being wrong. When it comes to extraordinary claims the burden of proof lies upon the person making the claim. Not the other way around. I can provide evidence that he is dead. And that he was probably left on the cross.. You on the other hand only have a book of myths.

Click to expand...

I didn't think you could substantiate your claims.