being a child of Yahweh doesn't mean claiming to be (part of) Israel, though.
according to you.
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Who Is an Israelite?
- Thread starter thomas t
- Start date
Yes, according to me, I can see that you have not been invited
Bye the way, you are aware that no Christian will be allowed into the City coming down from Heaven?
Here is proof which you always ask for>>>
You are aware what a gate is for ?
Rev 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were loaded with the seven last plagues came, and he spoke with me, saying, “Come here. I will show you the wife, the Lamb’s bride.”
Rev 21:10 He carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, as if it were a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 having a great and high wall; having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.
So, a gate is used to control goings in and out? Now explain to me how you as a Christian are gonna sneak into the city and by which controlling gate?
There is no gate with the name "Christians" for you to use.
Sorry for you, but I believe you have to become a companion of Israel to achieve going into the City.
According to me
If you are invited or not has no relevance for the question if I am invited or not. Two different subjects.Yes, according to me, I can see that you have not been invited
Bye the way, you are aware that no Christian will be allowed into the City coming down from Heaven?
Here is proof which you always ask for>>>
You are aware what a gate is for ?
Rev 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were loaded with the seven last plagues came, and he spoke with me, saying, “Come here. I will show you the wife, the Lamb’s bride.”
Rev 21:10 He carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, as if it were a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 having a great and high wall; having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.
So, a gate is used to control goings in and out? Now explain to me how you as a Christian are gonna sneak into the city and by which controlling gate?
There is no gate with the name "Christians" for you to use.
Sorry for you, but I believe you have to become a companion of Israel to achieve going into the City.
According to me
It has never been said in the Book of Revelations that only the twelve tribes are allowed to enter. Even if the gates carry their names.
There are a couple of people that can't enter... but it does not say that these encompass all humanity minus the twelve tribes + their companions, though.
To all those who think they are Israel without any ethnic bonds:
Romans 11:28 makes it clear that current Israel is an enemy of the Gospel.
Christianity cannot be Israel then.
Christians are Gospel friendly.
Normally, people who argue that Israel is a metaphor for the (Christian) church don't care about this verse. Speaking from my experience, they seem to think if it's only one verse that debunks the theory, so what?
However, this is not taking Bible seriously.
If there is one verse debunking a doctrine... the doctrine is of course debunked.
Thomas
Romans 11:28 makes it clear that current Israel is an enemy of the Gospel.
Christianity cannot be Israel then.
Christians are Gospel friendly.
Normally, people who argue that Israel is a metaphor for the (Christian) church don't care about this verse. Speaking from my experience, they seem to think if it's only one verse that debunks the theory, so what?
However, this is not taking Bible seriously.
If there is one verse debunking a doctrine... the doctrine is of course debunked.
Thomas
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firedragon
Veteran Member
If you are going to the Bible, an Israelite becomes a theological term. So is it a theocracy, and a theological term that you are referring to?
If its a geographical term, then the Bible cannot dictate anything there.
Which one is it? Or is there an alternative?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
A "Pauline-Christian" from the Gentile is a Roman product made from a fake vision that (sinful) Paul never saw, therefore, there is no chance of it being an Israelite, as I understand, please. Right?
Regards
firedragon
Veteran Member
I did not think of Christianity in this question at all. I only referred to the Bible.
capumetu
Active Member
On the last night of Jesus' life, he initiated a new covenant with his faithful 11 apostles. He had previously revealed that Jehovah would take the Kingdom from the literal Jews (Jehovah's covenanted people) and give it to a nation producing it's fruits. That new covenant was accepted by God when Jesus presented his sacrifice to Him. Thus holy spirit was poured out upon some disciples putting the new covenant in force.
These ones are the Jews sir, not by nationality, but by spirituality, made up of all tribes, peoples, and tongues Rev 5:9,10; Gal 6:16; Rom 2:28,29
the people who claim that they are Israel (ordinary Cristians though), they sometimes use the term "Israelite" wanting to convey "people of Israel". That's all. I borrowed this term from them.
It means "of Israel" (for them).
I don't agree.
You seem to be claiming that the Kingdom of God and Israel are identical. Yet you failed to provide scriptural proof for it.
The group mentioned in Revelation 5, also referred to as the Ransomed of the Lord... are the Ransomed of the Lord (Revelation 5:9).
Here you failed to show that the Ransomed of the Lord are Israel.
Galatians 6:16 does not prove you anything. It's a verse containing the notion of Israel.
That doesn't mean that it proves your point though.
Last but not least, Romans 2:29 is about being inwardly vs. outwardly Jewish.
Jewish. It's about Jews.
No, not Wanna-be Jews.
Real Jews.
But not all who claim that name for themselves are really Jewish, in my opinion.
Sorry, if you have already said it, but please tell how do you think it is determined and on what basis?
I think I provided the scriptures that support it, but, if you think they mean something else, please explain what do you think they mean? And I also would like to know what do you think true Jewish identity is and how do you know it?
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:28-29
Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. Yahweh your God will put all these curses on your enemies, and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day. Yahweh your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for Yahweh will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fathers;
Deuteronomy 30:6-9
The Israelites were an ancient civilization that no longer exists. A modern-day person whose family tree includes ancestors who were Israelites is no more an Israelite than I am a Pict.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
This is such a mixed up, unreasoned mess. Leviticus and Exodus patently don’t mean that strangers become literally or spiritually part of the family. Do some frickin’ exegesis, please. It means that they are to be treated the same as if they were family. There’s a difference. And Galatians doesn’t jibe with the Tanach, because it’s not the Tanach. It means something completely different than the two Hebrew texts.
The first passage is about Jews. So is the second one.
Jews. The difference between being inwardly Jewish and outwardly Jewish.
Jewish however. Being Jewish is the topic of these two verses.
Did you notice how the first passage speaks about Jews? And did you see how the second passage is about Jews, too?
Yes, it says Jews. I mean... Jews.
So now you come up telling me, must have been Christians these passages are talking about.
However, read again.... it says Jews, it's about actual... Jews. Did you notice?
Yes, just read again.
My example of my personal circumcision was to show that a physical circumcision exists that was made for reasons other than being Jewish.
I am circumcised. However, I am not Jewish. I am an ordinary Christian from Germany, that's all.
So, at least two manners of being outwardly circumcised exist.
The onus is on you if you want to say that solely one manner of being inwardly circumcised can exist, very much in contrast to the variety of physical circumcisions that there are in this world.
Bible authors even compare physical circumcision and heartly circumcision with each other.
look, in case you meant me... or in case you also meant me... I merely cite the others that kept telling that they are Jews just for being obedient.
They use the term Israelite. As if obedience makes them Israelitish/ children of Israel.
I just cited their terminology.
capumetu
Active Member
Israel was a name given to Jacob after he contended with God, his offspring became known as Israelites.
Jehovah's people have been called Christians since the first century
Ok, thank you, and if a Christian has that circumcision of heart, is he a Jew by those scriptures?