Invisible Signals

stvdv · Feb 11, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Prayer was probably the first wireless communication method in my opinion and it allows us to communicate with the Heavenly Father

Makes sense to me

Heyo said:
You can't see sound waves (under normal conditions) and you don't need a wire to talk to your neighbour over the fence. So, even before humans prayed, they talked to each other. Language was the first wireless communication method.

So, you believe God created humans who were able to use language, from the moment they were in existence on earth? IF not, then it might have taken some time before they created their own new language. It's not easy to create a new language, whereas communication with God is easy, just the language of the heart, which all humans are equipped with since birth, nothing fancy with grammar and stuff.

Heyo · Feb 11, 2021

stvdv said:
So, you believe God created humans

Nope.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 11, 2021

stvdv said:
That proves my point ... making the claim "prayer does not work" is kind of absurd
Proving such a negative claim is kind of hard; one needs to be a bit omniscient to start with

You might as well take a sugar pill. Those placebos do, after all, work in controlled experiments. But there is no physiological reason for it to work and it certainly is not working to actually produce the desired effect.
The mind is a curiously powerful thing.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 11, 2021

Fool said:
actually thought has been measured to cause a physical difference in random number generators

Global Consciousness Project Dot

Sounds like a bunch of hooey like the so-called "law of attraction."

stvdv · Feb 11, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
You might as well take a sugar pill. Those placebos do, after all, work in controlled experiments. But there is no physiological reason for it to work and it certainly is not working to actually produce the desired effect.
The mind is a curiously powerful thing.

I was not talking about "prayer works"
I was talking about the absurdity to claim "prayer does not work"

Irate State · Feb 11, 2021

Invisible signals for an invisible god? It checks.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 11, 2021

stvdv said:
I was not talking about "prayer works"
I was talking about the absurdity to claim "prayer does not work"

It's not an absurd claim, however.

Clara Tea · Feb 11, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
I was thinking that today in our modern day society with the advent firstly of the phone, radio, television and then internet it is clear to see that all around us are invisible signals. You can make a text from your phone and though they are no cables connected to anything else, you can send that text message to someone round about the other side of the world. Shouldn’t this enforce the legitimacy of prayer. People say prayer doesn’t work, but I say that our words can be heard in heaven though there’s no visible signal that can be seen. Prayer was probably the first wireless communication method in my opinion and it allows us to communicate with the Heavenly Father Yahweh whose angels take up the message to Him.

Prayer does work and modern technology proves that invisible signals and communication are indeed possible. If it can be done for the human realm, how much more can it be done in the spiritual realm. Do you have faith that Yahweh answers prayers if they are sincere and from a good heart? I do. The reason I’m writing this is earlier this week I saw a thread here on RF that said prayer doesn’t work. I’m here to tell you that prayer does work, but the prayer must come from a sincere heart. A sincere heart prays for things that they need. If one is praying, yet refusing to keep the commandments of Yahweh as most do, and refusing to use His Name, why would Yahweh answer prayer? Should Yahweh answer someone who doesn’t care about what Yahweh wants?

It goes even deeper than that. Not only can psychics (and others) hear God, but God is playing games with names.

For example:

Stock market criminal Charles Keeting (mix the letters to Carl Cheating).

Reverend Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker (televangelists). They are Bakking....in hell.

Reverend Peter Popoff (televangelists). He popped off about faith healing and was arrested for fraud.

Reverend Jimmy Swaggart (Swaggering braggart...who had a sex scandal with a prostitute).

Warren Buffet (food).

Steve Jobs (work).

Reverend Harold Camping (harry camp)...wrong about date of rapture.

Reverend C.W. Burpo (C. W. Burpo Net Worth 2021, Age, Bio, Height, Facts, Wiki!) favorite food: Sundae (holy day).

Reverend Creflo Dollar (Mega Pastor Creflo Dollar Accused Of Being Gay And Getting A Penis Pounded In His Butt For 4 Hours Straight By Musician Ramon Minggia). Took in more money than most televangelists.

Reverend Eddie Long (Bishop Eddie L. Long, Accused of Sexual Misconduct, Dies at 63 (Published 2017)). Proved how long.

We have to be careful about letting the unexplained fill in the missing gaps in our knowledge. If we don't know if a slot machine is going to pay off, we can't say that it is proof of God if it doesn't.

blü 2 · Feb 11, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
you can send that text message to someone round about the other side of the world. Shouldn’t this enforce the legitimacy of prayer.

Only if communication with God is electronic. If you have [his] number, there'd be a lot of interest if you posted it here.

Messianic Israelite said:
People say prayer doesn’t work

Well, doesn't work better than chance, anyway. I'm not aware of any research that suggests otherwise. The advantage of prayer appears to be largely personal and psychological, for the one who prays, and the one who's prayed for (if any). (There was however one report that very ill people in hospital who were prayed for were more likely to die, suggesting the fact of being prayed for convinced them they were already doomed.)

Inquire of God · Feb 11, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
This is from a non-christian perspective.

I'll give an example first. My aunt passed away 2018 and my grandmother 2014. I'm not much of a prayer (only did when I was in the Church 2004 or some odd year) and continued to pray not to god but to my grandmother, aunt, and family in general. Prayer is communication.

So, long story short, every holiday and so forth its customary to set food on the grave of our loved ones. I started doing this daily, started talking to them, and all of that. I was talking to my mother (living) and right before the conversation ended, she said she wanted to eat blueberry muffins. She sounded JUST LIKE my aunt. I almost dropped the phone (this was two days ago). I remember praying that my family would talk to me in my dreams, but none have (though I've seen them but no interaction).

Is this an answer to a prayer? Most religious people would say yes. Not knowing I don't believe in Jehovah, they'd attribute it to that.

Telephone signals and all of that is quite different. While I'm not familiar with how telephones and other electronics work (call me naïve) but we can actually manipulate electricity and signals. Think of your internet connection. Couple days ago my internet connection was wonky because in the evening my cell phone provider likes to play with the signals.

Prayer, in my opinion, just isn't like that. You can pray to cure your loved one from cancer even pray everyone lives forever, it doesn't work. However, if your loved one is cured, you would obviously think god has something to do with it. Answered prayers is from YOU not from a deity or outside source. Electricity is not from us and it invisible means of transference means nothing in comparison.

A couple days before my dad died I had a dream about him that was pretty long, but I will only say that at one point he saluted me! It was weird. Anyway we had been estranged for years because he abandoned me when I was 11 and then when I was much older and changed my name he wanted nothing to do with me-because I changed my name, which I thought was really weird, I mean why at that point did he care? Anyway, I did not think much more about it (although I did write it down) until a few days later when my sister called to tell me he had died IN HIS SLEEP! Talk about weird.

Messianic Israelite · Feb 12, 2021

Regiomontanus said:
I would like to think petitionary prayer works. But it is hard to see how it could...

Children dying of cancer?

And No Prayer Prescription

Hi Regiomontanus. Good morning. I know it would be hard to see the value of prayer if prayers haven't been answered personally. In my faith, prayers have been answered. People have recovered from illnesses and sickness. One woman, our Head Deaconess, received a new heart valve miraculously. However, there is suffering in this world. As you said, children and adults dying from cancer is heart-breaking, along with many other ailments. Suffering in this world should lead us to draw closer to Yahweh and to develop faith in Yahweh, but many times for people it does the opposite because their hearts aren't right. Yet Yahweh is the only one able to eradicate all suffering, pain and disease and He will do so in the Kingdom when Satan is banished (Revelation 20). Yahshua in Luke 13:4-5 in his response to those who asked him about why eighteen people died, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and killed them, said they weren't offenders or sinners above other people in Jerusalem, but his admonishment was: "Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Yahshua had access to the wisdom of the heavens and yet this was his answer.

Messianic Israelite · Feb 12, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
This is from a non-christian perspective.

I'll give an example first. My aunt passed away 2018 and my grandmother 2014. I'm not much of a prayer (only did when I was in the Church 2004 or some odd year) and continued to pray not to god but to my grandmother, aunt, and family in general. Prayer is communication.

So, long story short, every holiday and so forth its customary to set food on the grave of our loved ones. I started doing this daily, started talking to them, and all of that. I was talking to my mother (living) and right before the conversation ended, she said she wanted to eat blueberry muffins. She sounded JUST LIKE my aunt. I almost dropped the phone (this was two days ago). I remember praying that my family would talk to me in my dreams, but none have (though I've seen them but no interaction).

Is this an answer to a prayer? Most religious people would say yes. Not knowing I don't believe in Jehovah, they'd attribute it to that.

Telephone signals and all of that is quite different. While I'm not familiar with how telephones and other electronics work (call me naïve) but we can actually manipulate electricity and signals. Think of your internet connection. Couple days ago my internet connection was wonky because in the evening my cell phone provider likes to play with the signals.

Prayer, in my opinion, just isn't like that. You can pray to cure your loved one from cancer even pray everyone lives forever, it doesn't work. However, if your loved one is cured, you would obviously think god has something to do with it. Answered prayers is from YOU not from a deity or outside source. Electricity is not from us and it invisible means of transference means nothing in comparison.

Hi Unveiled Artist. Good morning. Thanks for sharing. Well, we don't believe in praying or communicating to the dead (Deuteronomy 18:10-13). We believe the dead are dead and they will be resurrected and those faithful will inherit eternal life (Revelation 20:5-6). There's no indication that the dead go to heaven when they die. I don't believe answered prayer is from me. You have undoubtedly never had a miraculous prayer answered that only intervention from a Higher Power could solve. But I have and therefore I do believe in prayer.

Messianic Israelite · Feb 12, 2021

epronovost said:
I say prayer doesn't work not because of it's method, but because of it's abscent level of result beyond a placebo effect at the very best. In other words, even ''if'' there is a deity and ''if'' it can hear prayers, there is no clear evidence that this deity does anything or answers any of them.

Hi epronovost. Good morning. As I said, if someone hasn't had a positive personal experience with prayer then it seems almost impossible to convince them in the value of prayer. But there have been times when Yahweh has intervened in my life and that there is no way it could have been a mere coincidence. I believe in the power of prayer. We have a saying in my faith, 'Prayer changes things' and I believe it completely to be true.

Messianic Israelite · Feb 12, 2021

Twilight Hue said:
It dosent matter nor makes any difference. The results for needs and wants are granted or denied weither a person believes in prayer or not.

Twilight Hue. Good morning. I disagree. As in the case of many of Yahshua's healings, the ingredient of faith had to be there such as in Matthew 8:13. They had to demonstrate faith first, then the petition could be answered.

Mark 11:22 says:
"And Yahshua answering saith unto them, Have faith in Yahweh."

Messianic Israelite · Feb 12, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
Just because we can't see the waves that allow for texting, internet, and such doesn't mean they are entirely invisible and not possible to detect and measure them. Such as wifi and rf, these are still along the electromagnetic spectrum even though they occupy wavelengths far below our threshold for sight. Just as xrays are there, but above what we can see in this spectrum.

Hi Shadow Wolf. Good morning. I agree. These waves can be measured. However, there's no way of detecting angels and such, at least that we know of. All I was saying is that just because something is invisible, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They are many signals all around us. Is it too hard thing to comprehend that some signals cannot be detected by human instruments?

Messianic Israelite · Feb 12, 2021

sun rise said:
People, even the most sincere, can pray for things that are harmful from a longer-term perspective. Should those prayers be answered even if the person has a good heart but does not have a larger perspective?

To me the prayers that are answered are loving remembrance of Divinity manifest and unmanifest and acceptance of Divine Will. The end of the famous Bible quote is a teaching of that idea:

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

I see those effects as true as well.

Hi sun rise. Good morning. I agree with what you say in respect to praying 'if it be Yahweh's will'. It's so true. We should always remember to pray asking if it be Yahweh's will as it protects you from damaging your faith and allows you to rely on Yahweh in a righteous and sensible way. Jacob 4 (James) says:

"Come now, ye that say, To-day or to-morrow we will go into this city, and spend a year there, and trade, and get gain: 14 whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If Yahweh will, we shall both live, and do this or that."

Good point Sun rise. Also in the model prayer we are instructed to pray that Yahweh's will be done: Matthew 6:10 "...Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth."

Messianic Israelite · Feb 12, 2021

stvdv said:
IMO:

God is amazing and Great and He Loves unconditionally. Sometimes He might even respond from a not so sincere heart's prayer; we never know.

And that would be the smart thing to do too

Name is essential. Wrong IP address, and prayer might get lost. Of course God knows, but heh ... we should play by the rules (usually)

IF God wants what is best for us THEN someone who does not care about what God wants, does not care about what is best for them

Hi stvdv. I agree that Yahweh might respond to a not so sincere heart, especially when people are trying to learn the truth and keep the commandments but might not be totally committed. We were all at one time sinners. Yahweh had mercy on us despite this. "But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Yahshua the Messiah might be given to them that believe." (Galatians 3:22)

You use the example of a wrong IP address. Well, Yahweh has revealed His Name in the Bible. People know it but still refuse to use it regardless of so many scriptures telling us to call upon His Name such as Isaiah 12:4. If we want to be sincere, we have to come to Yahweh with truth and His Name is Yahweh. That's one major truth that He has revealed to His creation.

I agree with what you said about someone who doesn't care about what Yahweh wants, don't care about themselves. Yahweh indeed knows what's best for us in the long-term. He wants to give eternal life to His people.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 12, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi Shadow Wolf. Good morning. I agree. These waves can be measured. However, there's no way of detecting angels and such, at least that we know of. All I was saying is that just because something is invisible, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They are many signals all around us. Is it too hard thing to comprehend that some signals cannot be detected by human instruments?

Yes, but that doesn't mean there must be some unseen and unknown force at work.

stvdv · Feb 12, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
You use the example of a wrong IP address. Well, Yahweh has revealed His Name in the Bible. People know it but still refuse to use it regardless of so many scriptures telling us to call upon His Name such as Isaiah 12:4. If we want to be sincere, we have to come to Yahweh with truth and His Name is Yahweh. That's one major truth that He has revealed to His creation.

I have read other scriptures in which the Name Yahweh was not used, so for me the Name Yahweh is not needed But for you it is the right Name

IF I want, I could use the Name Yahweh though, because in my view God can be called by many Names

More interesting though, is to know how to listen to God, once you've established the connection

Fool · Feb 12, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
Sounds like a bunch of hooey like the so-called "law of attraction."

it's affiliated with princeton university

The Global Consciousness Project

When research goes PEAR-shaped : Nature News

Invisible Signals

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Veteran Member

Certified People sTabber

Certified People sTabber

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Äkta människor

Certified People sTabber

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Certified People sTabber

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

ALL in all