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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
How is this possible?

Israel is the centre of the Faith in One God.

Stands to reason God chose the Centre point of all God given Faiths. Stands to reason they would not last, if they are not of God.

Israel has millions of pilgrims each year going to give praise to One God.

Jews and Christians, inclusive of people from many other previous faiths and Muslims also inclusive of people from many other previous faiths and Baha'is inclusive of people from many other previous faiths, one and all go to pray to One God.

Is it Biblical that all Faiths will become One in God?

How do all Faiths with One God, not see the One God?


RegardsTony

I don't think it is necessary for a Jew to reject Jesus any more than for an atheist to reject God.

Jesus just happens to be not part of their belief so there is nothing to reject.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
When the obedient faithful remnant of Israel suffer, it is vicarious suffering. You should look up that phrase, vicarious suffering. It is good to become familiar with it.

There being a remnant is a reference to most of Israel rejecting Jesus. All Israel Shall Be Saved! The End Times Salvation of Israel

Contrary to popular thought, the Bible teaches that Israel – not the Church, is the focus of the end times.

The last fifteen chapters of the book of Ezekiel detail the spiritual awakening and reconciliation of Israel to God during the Great Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Here are a sample verses that explain the reconciliation of Israel to God in the end times:

GOD WILL BRING ISRAEL BACK INTO THE PROMISED LAND AND APPOINT THE MESSIAH TO RULE OVER THEM
“And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

“And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing…and shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them. And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.

“…Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God.” – Ezekiel 34:23-31.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
So what? Beliefs are not proof of anything.

Paul had nothing to gain by believing in Christ. 5 Facts Concerning Jesus’ Resurrection Most Scholars Agree With | Reasons for Jesus

While one may wonder what Paul has to do with the resurrection of Jesus, when one understands the reason behind Paul’s transformation, one will understand its association. Paul was a well-educated Jew. Paul said that he had lived “according to the strictest party of our religion I have lived as a Pharisee” (Acts 26:5).

Paul even said that he was “circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless” (Philippians 3:5-6).
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The Bible and scholars mention that the disciples believed they saw the risen Jesus. 5 Facts Concerning Jesus’ Resurrection Most Scholars Agree With | Reasons for Jesus
When gases burning as fallout hit my house originally it was in large thumping hits.

One day it became brain prickling burning..
Crown of thorns effect without bleeding. I saw outside gases burning wisping and black smoke.

As it went away the smoke images of male heads emerged. Human. Straight away science man thoughts said its status by what I saw.

Then whole man human images. Alien.images....stone status we images appeared. Floated above ground moved away disappeared. Some remained shadow images which now I constantly SEE.

These types causes taught humans that their human brother was causing it.

Michael Jackson and Elvis images appeared I presumed due to their constant recorded transmitted image.

Tried to be logical in that attack.

When you realise the historic science pyramid was built as a sun time shifting machine and not for a resource as he wanted to go back to the eternal.....then you would realise what an evil designer he was.

Mountain top pyramid model was about tip being flat topped off mountain. Combustion reaction.

Mass shifted.

The string then obviously placed self where that mountain mass had been. Radiating burning effect after a conversion. As thinker wanted to bio shift too.

Ever wonder why we said our brother the scientist is a satanist?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
"The bodily resurrection of Jesus is the best-attested fact of human history."

Fact ??????? :rolleyes:

NOTHING could be further from the truth. The bodily resurrection is fictional stories, nothing that ever happened in reality.

That is why only Christians "believe" it. If it was a FACT, there would be proof and everyone would KNOW it. There would be information about it if it was a fact. Stories men made up are not information.

fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

"But the evidence for Jesus’ bodily resurrection is overwhelming. The Lord himself declared: “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Jesus was not referring to His body, that was a misinterpretation of the scripture.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

The Temple here is the Word of God.
The 3 day period is a time of turmoil where the Disciples needed Faith to carry on, the body of Jesus had gone and they needed to find Faith in Spirit to carry on with what Jesus the Christ had instructed them to do.
So a Jew that denied that Jesus had resurrected into a physical body and that the gospel writers were making up fictional stories about people seeing him, touching him and eating with him... those Jews would be right and the ones that believed it would be wrong?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
"But the evidence for Jesus’ bodily resurrection is overwhelming. The Lord himself declared: “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Jesus was not referring to His body, that was a misinterpretation of the scripture.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

The Temple here is the Word of God.
The 3 day period is a time of turmoil where the Disciples needed Faith to carry on, the body of Jesus had gone and they needed to find Faith in Spirit to carry on with what Jesus the Christ had instructed them to do.
Not that I believe it, but here is what the NT says... So you go by, I suppose, a Baha'i interpretation and Christians go by what is written in the gospels. I'd say they are right to believe that the temple he was speaking of was his body... You know why? Because that is what it says.
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.​
Now if you want to say that the gospel writers made up and embellished the stories about Jesus, I'm with you. Only problem... that makes them the false words of men and not the words of God or Jesus. And, I don't think most Baha'is would say that. So why do you say it? I know why I say it, but I'm not a Baha'i.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The OP to me was answered early in the OP.

The answer I see is that the Jew is happy and content in their Faith, thus stay strong and firm in that faith with no need to look outside of that faith.

Would that be a fair deduction?

Thus personally, I just wish them one and all much happiness and service to each other.

Regards Tony
You asked how can a Jew reject all those people that Baha'is believe were sent from God to bring new information to us and replace the old information. So did you find out how and why they can reject all of them?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So a Jew that denied that Jesus had resurrected into a physical body and that the gospel writers were making up fictional stories about people seeing him, touching him and eating with him... those Jews would be right and the ones that believed it would be wrong?
Yes.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Not that I believe it, but here is what the NT says... So you go by, I suppose, a Baha'i interpretation and Christians go by what is written in the gospels. I'd say they are right to believe that the temple he was speaking of was his body... You know why? Because that is what it says.
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.​
Note what the verses actually say because that is very important:: 20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days? AND... 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Then the next verse says: 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

But Jesus never said any of that! "They" spoke for what "they" believed Jesus meant in John 2:19 and "they" had no right to do that! ALL that Jesus ever said Himself was the following:

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

As Tony said:

The Temple here is the Word of God.

Baha'u'llah has offered to all that await a 3rd temple, or the rebuild of a temple.

".... Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words “Be and it is”.

The 3 day period is a time of turmoil where the Disciples needed Faith to carry on, the body of Jesus had gone and they needed to find Faith in Spirit to carry on with what Jesus the Christ had instructed them to do.

That is a logical explanation, given by Abdu'l-Baha in the Baha'i Writings.
Now if you want to say that the gospel writers made up and embellished the stories about Jesus, I'm with you. Only problem... that makes them the false words of men and not the words of God or Jesus. And, I don't think most Baha'is would say that. So why do you say it? I know why I say it, but I'm not a Baha'i.
I would say that the gospel writers made up and embellished the stories about Jesus and that these were the false words of men and not the words of God or Jesus. I do not care what the other Baha'is say. There is no requirement for Baha'is to believe that all of the Bible is literally true.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't think it is necessary for a Jew to reject Jesus any more than for an atheist to reject God.

Jesus just happens to be not part of their belief so there is nothing to reject.

It can be seen that way. Though I see that is not accepting what history has shown.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You asked how can a Jew reject all those people that Baha'is believe were sent from God to bring new information to us and replace the old information. So did you find out how and why they can reject all of them?

It was in my reply you responded to.

Regards Tony
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I don't think it is necessary for a Jew to reject Jesus any more than for an atheist to reject God.

Jesus just happens to be not part of their belief so there is nothing to reject.

Being Jewish and believing in Jesus are not mutually exclusive. The early Christians weren't against the law of Moses but they believed it wasn't necessary for Gentiles, and they didn't believe that the Messiah was to be a political figure, but they were Jewish. Jewish religious movements - Wikipedia

The Jewish Christians were the original Jewish followers of Jesus. The radical interpretation of Moses' Law by Jesus' disciples and their belief he is the Son of God, along with the development of the New Testament, ensured that Christianity and Judaism would become distinctively different religions.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
The remnant accepts Jesus, the false messiah??? Accepts a mere man as God? I don't think so.

Besides, you don't believe that Christians who are Jews suffer vicariously.

Jesus didn't say I am God because he didn't want to be confused with God the Father. Revisiting “Where Did Jesus Say ‘I am God’” – A Response to the Muhammedan Site “Do Not Say Trinity”

The problem is that if Jesus were to come out and say “I am God” without clearly and forcefully establishing his personal distinction from the Father, and His deity in relation to that fact, people would think He was claiming to be the same person as the Father. This is because God was used primarily in reference to the Father and virtually served as His proper name. In other words, to come out and say “I am God” instead of first establishing His distinction from the Father, would lead His followers into thinking He was making himself out to be the Father in heaven.(1) This is why Jesus didn’t just walk around saying “I am God” as the Muslims demand.

Thus, Jesus needed to communicate His deity in such a way that His audience would know that He wasn’t claiming to be the Father, even though He was claiming to be God. In light of this, there was no better way for Jesus to affirm the fact that He is God then by the way the Gospels report he did, e.g. the unique Son of God and divine Son of Man who is coequal with the Father in essence, and also by applying divine titles and metaphors to Himself.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It was in my reply you responded to.

Regards Tony
The answer I see is that the Jew is happy and content in their Faith,
So those Jews that have rejected all those people Baha'is say are manifestations of God is because they are happy and content with in their Faith? Nothing about they listened or studied these other Faiths and rejected them, because none of them have fulfilled the requirements of what the Messiah is supposed to do?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Note what the verses actually say because that is very important:: 20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days? AND... 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Then the next verse says: 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

But Jesus never said any of that! "They" spoke for what "they" believed Jesus meant in John 2:19 and "they" had no right to do that! ALL that Jesus ever said Himself was the following:

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Why believe that these gospel writers were accurate in the things they quoted as things that Jesus said? Why believe their story about the supposed "virgin" birth? Why not reject all of what is written in the gospel? But, as a Baha'i, I don't think you can. But what does get rejected by Baha'is, to me, makes Christianity a useless religion. They only things it had going for it was that Jesus conquered death, saved people from Satan and hell and was going to return. None of those is true according to Baha'is.

As Tony said:

The Temple here is the Word of God.

Baha'u'llah has offered to all that await a 3rd temple, or the rebuild of a temple.

".... Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words “Be and it is”.

The 3 day period is a time of turmoil where the Disciples needed Faith to carry on, the body of Jesus had gone and they needed to find Faith in Spirit to carry on with what Jesus the Christ had instructed them to do.

That is a logical explanation, given by Abdu'l-Baha in the Baha'i Writings.

And what "Word" might that be? The word that you and I don't believe in? As if we believe the Jewish Bible either. Certainly not Genesis. How about the Laws? Do believe the one and only God wanted the Jews to sacrifice animals and stone people to death for breaking some of the laws? I don't believe it. But I believe Jews are told to believe those things just like Christians are told believe in a dying and rising God/man. So we have "Words" of God that you and I have problems with. I explain it away by saying that the people made up much of what they believed about God and what that God's laws should be. Strangely, no matter which religion, it fits that culture very well. And Baha'is? They explain by "progressive" revelations that were meant to keep all people moving towards an ever advancing civilization. Only problem, God allowed people to mess up "His Word." So which "messed" up "Word" is better? The Baha'is answer, I think, should be none of them but the Baha'i Word, since Baha'i believe all the other ones are now obsolete.

I would say that the gospel writers made up and embellished the stories about Jesus and that these were the false words of men and not the words of God or Jesus. I do not care what the other Baha'is say. There is no requirement for Baha'is to believe that all of the Bible is literally true.

But really, when was this ever The Word of God? And why in the world would a Jew convert? To believe they are born into sin and need to be saved? That without being saved by Jesus, God will condemn them to hellfire along with the devil? So sure, Baha'is don't believe the Bible literally. But why believe it at all? Baha'is make it, essentially, a work of fiction. So how does a Baha'is "teach" the Faith? "Oh we believe in your religion and in your prophet/founder... We just don't believe that most of the things really happened.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Why believe that these gospel writers were accurate in the things they quoted as things that Jesus said? Why believe their story about the supposed "virgin" birth? Why not reject all of what is written in the gospel? But, as a Baha'i, I don't think you can. But what does get rejected by Baha'is, to me, makes Christianity a useless religion. They only things it had going for it was that Jesus conquered death, saved people from Satan and hell and was going to return. None of those is true according to Baha'is.



And what "Word" might that be? The word that you and I don't believe in? As if we believe the Jewish Bible either. Certainly not Genesis. How about the Laws? Do believe the one and only God wanted the Jews to sacrifice animals and stone people to death for breaking some of the laws? I don't believe it. But I believe Jews are told to believe those things just like Christians are told believe in a dying and rising God/man. So we have "Words" of God that you and I have problems with. I explain it away by saying that the people made up much of what they believed about God and what that God's laws should be. Strangely, no matter which religion, it fits that culture very well. And Baha'is? They explain by "progressive" revelations that were meant to keep all people moving towards an ever advancing civilization. Only problem, God allowed people to mess up "His Word." So which "messed" up "Word" is better? The Baha'is answer, I think, should be none of them but the Baha'i Word, since Baha'i believe all the other ones are now obsolete.



But really, when was this ever The Word of God? And why in the world would a Jew convert? To believe they are born into sin and need to be saved? That without being saved by Jesus, God will condemn them to hellfire along with the devil? So sure, Baha'is don't believe the Bible literally. But why believe it at all? Baha'is make it, essentially, a work of fiction. So how does a Baha'is "teach" the Faith? "Oh we believe in your religion and in your prophet/founder... We just don't believe that most of the things really happened.

Scholars reject the belief that the gospels are mythical or devoid of historical value. How We Know The Gospels Are Reliable | Reasons for Jesus

The Gospels as Historical Sources
It is clear that almost all historians within New Testament studies and other relevant fields (i.e. Greco-Roman history, classical history etc.) hold that the gospels provide historical information that can be used to reconstruct objective history. To what degree they do will certainly differ depending on which historian one decides to ask.

However, that the gospels are devoid of historical value or that they are entirely legendary and mythical is a view no longer held within scholarship. Instead, the gospels are treated as valuable historical documents on the ministry of Christ.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
It can be seen that way. Though I see that is not accepting what history has shown.

Regards Tony

History doesn't show that Jesus isn't the Messiah. Rabbinic Judaism rejected Jesus, but that's belief system based off the tradition of the Pharisees. Jewish religious movements - Wikipedia

Most streams of modern Judaism developed from the Pharisaic movement, which became known as Rabbinic Judaism (in Hebrew Yahadut Rabanit — יהדות רבנית) with the compilation of the Oral Torah into the Mishna. After the Bar Kokhba revoltand the destruction of the Second Temple the other movements disappeared from the historical record, yet the Sadduceesprobably kept on existing in a non-organized form for at least several more decades.[15][16]

The early Christians practiced something that was somewhere in between modern Christianity and Judaism. They were Jewish.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I don't think it is necessary for a Jew to reject Jesus any more than for an atheist to reject God.

Jesus just happens to be not part of their belief so there is nothing to reject.

Jesus was part of the belief system of the Jewish Christians. They did follow the laws of Moses but they didn't believe it was necessary for salvation and they didn't believe it was for gentile Christians, but they were still Jewish. Jewish religious movements - Wikipedia

The Jewish Christians were the original Jewish followers of Jesus. The radical interpretation of Moses' Law by Jesus' disciples and their belief he is the Son of God, along with the development of the New Testament, ensured that Christianity and Judaism would become distinctively different religions.[15]
 
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