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Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil?

Judgement Day

Active Member
Hema said:
Why the six year old though? Maybe one of our Muslim friends can clarify that.
Marrying a six, nine or whatever year old girl was permissible as long as she has gone through her first menstrual period.
 

Burchfam

Member
Judgement Day said:
Why did the Holy Prophet, who had attained to fifty-five out of his sixty-three years with only one wife at a time, and that, too, a widow, take so many wives at the ***-end of his life? Wars and the resulting widows are one reason. Divine dispensation is another, for the Holy Prophet came under Divine orders after being called to prophethood, as is clear from the Holy Qur'an (33:50).

Well, Aisha was certainly not a widow when he married her - unless, in her six years of life, she had already managed to accumulate one husband, then lose him, before she married Muhammad. Did Muhammad receive a divine dispensation for marrying children as well?

I have still received no clear answer on the 4 wives rule. I can understand why women should not have more than one husband, but this does not explain why men can have more than one wife. Does this not cause terrible social problems due to a shortage of women for those men at the bottom of the social and economoc hierarchy?

And I'd still like to know why women should cover their bodies, but not men.
 

Burchfam

Member
Judgement Day said:
Marrying a six, nine or whatever year old girl was permissible as long as she has gone through her first menstrual period.

Is this still the case in Muslim society?
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
Burchfam said:
Well, Aisha was certainly not a widow when he married her - unless, in her six years of life, she had already managed to accumulate one husband, then lose him, before she married Muhammad. Did Muhammad receive a divine dispensation for marrying children as well?

I have still received no clear answer on the 4 wives rule. I can understand why women should not have more than one husband, but this does not explain why men can have more than one wife. Does this not cause terrible social problems due to a shortage of women for those men at the bottom of the social and economoc hierarchy?

And I'd still like to know why women should cover their bodies, but not men.
Your first question, have been answered in my post just above yours. Unless you have more doubts.

Men having more than one wife as you must understand it, in Islam, is not promoted, but it is a permission, under certain circumstances. This will not cause a shortage of women as women population is significantly larger than men's population, and not all men are qualified to do that, plus, it may only be done under certain conditions, but obviously not for the purpose of fulfilling their sexual desires.

Men are also instructed to cover their bodies. People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women only. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al Noor: “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.” [Al-Qur’an 24:30]. The moment a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he should lower his gaze.
 

Burchfam

Member
Judgement Day said:
Your first question, have been answered in my post just above yours. Unless you have more doubts.

Men having more than one wife as you must understand it, in Islam, is not promoted, but it is a permission, under certain circumstances. This will not cause a shortage of women as women population is significantly larger than men's population, and not all men are qualified to do that, plus, it may only be done under certain conditions, but obviously not for the purpose of fulfilling their sexual desires.

Men are also instructed to cover their bodies. People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women only. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al Noor: “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.” [Al-Qur’an 24:30]. The moment a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he should lower his gaze.

The quote you gave refers to men not looing at women, but says nothing about what men must wear. Once again the onus is on the woman. And nor is it true to say that women greatly outnumber men. This is especially not true in Muslim countries where, mysteriously, a far higher proportion of female babies die at birth.
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
Burchfam said:
Is this still the case in Muslim society?
It is still. The thing is, young girls who lived in the past are much more mature compared to the young girls right now. Young girls from the past are more prepared to get married because they confront with a much tougher life. Even though it is still possible for one to marry a young girl in the current society, it is not considered a wise choice seeing the circumstances.
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
Burchfam said:
The quote you gave refers to men not looing at women, but says nothing about what men must wear.
“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.” [Al-Qur’an 24:30]
 

Burchfam

Member
Judgement Day said:
It is still. The thing is, young girls who lived in the past are much more mature compared to the young girls right now. Young girls from the past are more prepared to get married because they confront with a much tougher life. Even though it is still possible for one to marry a young girl in the current society, it is not considered a wise choice seeing the circumstances.

Then this is something that sets Muslim society apart from the West, because in the West such a practice would be regarded as paedophilia.
 

Burchfam

Member
Judgement Day said:
“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.” [Al-Qur’an 24:30]

That's pretty ambiguous, and can be interpreted any way you like.
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Judgement Day said:
It is still. The thing is, young girls who lived in the past are much more mature compared to the young girls right now. Young girls from the past are more prepared to get married because they confront with a much tougher life. Even though it is still possible for one to marry a young girl in the current society, it is not considered a wise choice seeing the circumstances.

Well I can understand that. Even in Hinduism, girls and boys were married young around twelve. Now the emphasis is on the accummulation of wealth and to do this, one must have a proper education and a good career. Long ago, children matured quickly because of responsibilities. In my case, I believe in love marriages and in cases when children were married young, they would not have had the chance to experience this. These marriages were mostly arranged and even if kids matured quickly, it must have been really scary to know that you will be leaving the comfort of home to live with a stranger. How will this stranger treat you? So, I agree that child marriages are not suitable for this era.
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
Burchfam said:
Then this is something that sets Muslim society apart from the West, because in the West such a practice would be regarded as paedophilia.
Just incase you don't know, marrying a young girl, was also practiced in the Western world in the past.
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Burchfam said:
Then this is something that sets Muslim society apart from the West, because in the West such a practice would be regarded as paedophilia.

Well I agree with that. However, even if such practices were common then, I don't think that modern day Muslims will think it's appropriate.
 

Burchfam

Member
Judgement Day said:
Just incase you don't know, marrying a young girl, was also practiced in the Western world in the past.

I am fully aware of this. The West has evolved - unlike Islamic society, which follows the same rules that were laid down 1400 years ago.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
The Quran defines modest dress, and neither Burqa nor veil are required by the Quran. Men must wear pants to be modestly dressed. Women must cover their legs and the bosom to be modestly dressed. The veil and its further inflictions were PRE-Islamic requirements mandated by culture and remain so today.

Regards,
Scott
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
Burchfam said:
I am fully aware of this. The West has evolved - unlike Islamic society, which follows the same rules that were laid down 1400 years ago.
The rules doesn't change because it was designed to be suitable until the end of times. It is the implementation that we must put our attention to. I agree with you the the Islamic world are behind right now, but thats because of the people. You can see that even between Muslims, confrontations are like taking pills three times a day, as you can see in the Sunnis and the Syi'ites.
 

Burchfam

Member
Judgement Day said:
The rules doesn't change because it was designed to be suitable until the end of times. It is the implementation that we must put our attention to. I agree with you the the Islamic world are behind right now, but thats because of the people. You can see that even between Muslims, confrontations are like taking pills three times a day, as you can see in the Sunnis and the Syi'ites.

And why are the people like that?
 

Burchfam

Member
Popeyesays said:
The Quran defines modest dress, and neither Burqa nor veil are required by the Quran. Men must wear pants to be modestly dressed. Women must cover their legs and the bosom to be modestly dressed. The veil and its further inflictions were PRE-Islamic requirements mandated by culture and remain so today.

Regards,
Scott

By pants, do you mean trousers? Does the Koran specify this? Then what of the robes worn during the Middle Ages?
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Popeyesays said:
Men must wear pants to be modestly dressed.

Tee hee. So that's why men wear pants! I've always wondered why. I'm just joking. :D Indian men have other traditional garb such as the dhoti which is clothed wrapped around to look sort of like pants. Think Ghandhiji.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Judgement Day said:
Just incase you don't know, marrying a young girl, was also practiced in the Western world in the past.

Not just in the past, but as recently at 50 years ago many Western European and North American brides were as young as 11-14. 100 years ago, most of them would've been.

At least Muhammed married Ajsa for humanitarian reasons, and did not consumate the marriage until she was mature.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Burchfam said:
Well, Aisha was certainly not a widow when he married her - unless, in her six years of life, she had already managed to accumulate one husband, then lose him, before she married Muhammad. Did Muhammad receive a divine dispensation for marrying children as well?

Because we're not talking about Ajsa.

Khadija, Muhammed's first wife, was a widow. She was also older than he was, a successful businesswoman - and she proposed to him.

She was, undeniably, the love of his life.

Burchfam said:
And I'd still like to know why women should cover their bodies, but not men.

It is required for men.
 
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