Truth: either God exists or He don't.

ElishaElijah · Feb 9, 2021

Polymath257 said:
First, how do you know it was actually a God that 'answered you' and not just your mind playing tricks on you?

Second, if the evidence is so prevalent, it should be easy to provide some.

What evidence distinguishes a universe with natural laws and no God from one that has a God?

A Universe with God that the Bible describes would look exactly like it does right now at this moment.

Polymath257 · Feb 9, 2021

ElishaElijah said:
A Universe with God that the Bible describes would look exactly like it does right now at this moment.

Such is the claim. But so would the universe without a God. So that is not evidence either way.

Also, the universe with a God still needs the same natural laws in order to look exactly like it does right now. So the God aspect is irrelevant.

ElishaElijah · Feb 9, 2021

Polymath257 said:
Such is the claim. But so would the universe without a God. So that is not evidence either way.

Also, the universe with a God still needs the same natural laws in order to look exactly like it does right now. So the God aspect is irrelevant.

A Universe without God wouldn’t exist

Polymath257 · Feb 9, 2021

ElishaElijah said:
A Universe without God wouldn’t exist

OK, do you have any evidence for this claim? Because that is *precisely* what I dispute.

I claim a universe with natural laws and no God can exist and would appear to be exactly as we see the universe right now.

Furthermore, the extra assumption of a God is unnecessary: the physical laws themselves are enough to explain what we see.

ElishaElijah · Feb 9, 2021

Polymath257 said:
OK, do you have any evidence for this claim? Because that is *precisely* what I dispute.

I claim a universe with natural laws and no God can exist and would appear to be exactly as we see the universe right now.

Furthermore, the extra assumption of a God is unnecessary: the physical laws themselves are enough to explain what we see.

Not to be disrespectful to your views but when someone says there was this gas, methane or something and chemicals that randomly mixed sounds more like a “fart”.

Polymath257 · Feb 9, 2021

ElishaElijah said:
Not to be disrespectful to your views but when someone says there was this gas, methane or something and chemicals that randomly mixed sounds more like a “fart”.

Sort of like the sound of a deity exhaling.

ElishaElijah · Feb 9, 2021

Polymath257 said:
Sort of like the sound of a deity exhaling.

At least now you are considering a Deity of some sort, maybe you were all along.

Polymath257 · Feb 9, 2021

ElishaElijah said:
At least now you are considering a Deity of some sort, maybe you were all along.

Deities, like superheros, are nice to have for fiction and jokes. But if you actually believe in Superman, there is something wrong.

Polymath257 · Feb 9, 2021

ElishaElijah said:
Not to be disrespectful to your views but when someone says there was this gas, methane or something and chemicals that randomly mixed sounds more like a “fart”.

In all seriousness, methane is one of the more common chemicals in the universe and is an excellent source for carbon. The early atmosphere of the Earth would not have been pleasant to the human nose (or even healthy for us).

Inquire of God · Feb 9, 2021

capumetu said:
But! What if He does?

God does exist, you can prove it to yourself by looking in the mirror.
Then go outside and look for other evidences.
Look for things that could not have just happened by accident.
It is all around you.
It is especially evident in people that you love, if you have any people that you love you can look at them and see God there.
Then, to finalize, ask God every day to show you that He exists until you get your answer from Him, it may take a while, well it did for me anyway, but He will answer you probably when you are not even thinking about your inquiry to Him. Be patient, wait for His answer, it will amaze you and then YOU will KNOW.

Polymath257 · Feb 9, 2021

Inquire of God said:
God does exist, you can prove it to yourself by looking in the mirror.

That shows that I exist. How does that show a God exists?

Then go outside and look for other evidences.
Look for things that could not have just happened by accident.
It is all around you.

I have seen nothing that suggests a God.

It is especially evident in people that you love, if you have any people that you love you can look at them and see God there.

No, I see my loved ones there. I have yet to see a God.

Then, to finalize, ask God every day to show you that He exists until you get your answer from Him, it may take a while, well it did for me anyway, but He will answer you probably when you are not even thinking about your inquiry to Him. Be patient, wait for His answer, it will amaze you and then YOU will KNOW.

I'm not in the habit of asking what I believe to be fictional beings anything. I don't ask Santa for presents on Christmas either.

Evidence FIRST, then belief.

Polymath257 · Feb 9, 2021

ElishaElijah said:
Not to be disrespectful to your views but when someone says there was this gas, methane or something and chemicals that randomly mixed sounds more like a “fart”.

And, of course, this is in no way a response to what i said. At best, it is a diversion.

37818 · Feb 9, 2021

Polymath257 said:
Faith is ultimately belief without sufficient evidence . . . .

You and others have redefined faith. In Biblical Christanity no such distinction is made.

A pocket dictionary that I have had over 30 years, faith is belief.

That be aa it is, what do you personally deem as sufficient evidence?

ElishaElijah · Feb 9, 2021

Inquire of God said:
God does exist, you can prove it to yourself by looking in the mirror.
Then go outside and look for other evidences.
Look for things that could not have just happened by accident.
It is all around you.
It is especially evident in people that you love, if you have any people that you love you can look at them and see God there.
Then, to finalize, ask God every day to show you that He exists until you get your answer from Him, it may take a while, well it did for me anyway, but He will answer you probably when you are not even thinking about your inquiry to Him. Be patient, wait for His answer, it will amaze you and then YOU will KNOW.

Beautiful!
“And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭

paarsurrey · Feb 9, 2021

Inquire of God said:
God does exist, you can prove it to yourself by looking in the mirror.
Then go outside and look for other evidences.
Look for things that could not have just happened by accident.
It is all around you.
It is especially evident in people that you love, if you have any people that you love you can look at them and see God there.
Then, to finalize, ask God every day to show you that He exists until you get your answer from Him, it may take a while, well it did for me anyway, but He will answer you probably when you are not even thinking about your inquiry to Him. Be patient, wait for His answer, it will amaze you and then YOU will KNOW.

Welcome in the forum, please.
Magenta ^.
Does one mean from God the person of G-d or Jesus son of Mary, please?
Joseph Smith , I get for one, was appointed messenger by Jesus son of Mary and not by G-d whom Jesus s/o Mary used to worship and pray and addressed as God-the-Father, please. Right friend, please?

Regards

Subduction Zone · Feb 9, 2021

Pilgrim Soldier said:
I see you very confused and delusional, you keep accusing God of being a liar but you have not provided any reason for this false accusation

I never said that God was a liar. You need to reread that post. You are the one accusing your God of being a liar.

Why do fundamentalists have such bad reading comprehension when it comes to that simple idea? You are the one that keeps claiming that God is a liar. But as I said, you do not understand how you are doing that.

paarsurrey · Feb 9, 2021

Israel Khan said:
If something was evident then it would have conclusive evidence to prove it

That is another point, if He needs to. G-d does not need to provide it. Right friend, please?

Regards

Subduction Zone · Feb 9, 2021

Pilgrim Soldier said:
But have you considered that your observation could be an illusion?

It could be. That is why it we continually test our beliefs. Have you considered that your Bible beliefs my be an illusion? You refuse to test those beliefs properly so you have no way of knowing. Those that accept the sciences have to live a fearless life. Bible believers believe mostly due to fear.

ElishaElijah · Feb 9, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
I never said that God was a liar. You need to reread that post. You are the one accusing your God of being a liar.

Why do fundies have such bad reading comprehension when it comes to that simple idea? You are the one that keeps claiming that God is a liar. But as I said, you do not understand how you are doing that.

Haven’t seen where he called God a liar only where you said that he called God a liar. Also, calling someone names is breaking the forum rules

Subduction Zone · Feb 9, 2021

Israel Khan said:
“Behold, I am coming soon” (Revelation 22:12)

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”
(John 14:1-3)

Matthew 24:1-51 ESV / 187 helpful votes
Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. ...

Revelation 22:12 ESV / 181 helpful votes
“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.

Revelation 3:11 ESV / 106 helpful votes
I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

verse where Jesus links himself to the son of man:

John 6:50-71 ESV / 118 helpful votes
This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. ...

Then read Matthew 24 in which Jesus talks about the Son of Man, himself, returning.

Of course the problem with the Matthew 24 verse is that it is one of the worst failures of prophesy in the Bible. He was supposed to come back while some of the disciples were still alive. Either there are some really old Jews wandering the Earth or the prophesy failed.

Truth: either God exists or He don't.

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