Does God Play "Hide and Seek"?

thomas t · Feb 9, 2021

QuestioningMind said:
BTW there are countless humans who believe without ever having encountered him or his voice or... or... . They just read the Bible and believe, isn't this great?

No, it's not great. In fact it's the opposite of great. It's a sign that a huge portion of the population isn't capable of using reasoned thought and logic when reaching conclusions about reality. That's like saying that there are countless people who believe in Q-anon, without ever having encountered any actual evidence for the claims... they just read some b.s. on the Internet and believe! Isn't that GREAT?

no, it isn't great,
we saw Qanon in that uprising.
People should be careful when they believe things that could lead to violence.
So, you can't compare here.
Bible cannot be used to justify violence, in my opinion.
Even if so many Catholics back then, and also Protestants, and even some Evangelicals today believe the contrary. This is at least how I see the story.

TagliatelliMonster · Feb 9, 2021

thomas t said:
Jesus had powers... however, the next followers would be as powerless as the Russians. They didn't just execute Jesus, they executed many more Christians for their faith.
So, you think that the boss for his extraordinary powers could nicely have escaped death only to have his followers die a horrible death in persecution? Is this the loving colleague?

A loving colleague wouldn't allow his followers to die horrible deaths. The point. You keep missing it.

Also, a public display of his powers would have prevented that persecution all together, since nobody would have doubted or mocked these early christians. Instead, they all would have become christians. God, being the omnipotent immortal being he supposedly is, could have easily achieved this.

He choose not to. Instead, he only supposedly revealed a small glimps of his powers to a select few... and these select few happened to be the least credible people in that setting as far as the rest of that society was concerned.

So really, if anything, this god set them all up for brutal persecution. Clearly that was his plan all along.

No, Jesus accepts the same death they would have designed for every Christian during the first centuries...

Jesus is god. An immortal being. He can't die.
It was, at best, just a show off.

People sometimes choose to murder.
God is not the one who will stop one and every murderer.

Indeed. Horrible being.
If I had the power to stop a murder or a pedophile rape - I would.
Your god instead sits back and watches it unfold and thinks to himself "I'm going to allow this and when you're done and you die, then I'm going to punish you - unless you repent and accept me off course, then you'll receive eternal bliss instead".

So that's the difference between me and your god. If I had the power to stop evil, I would.
You would to.

That makes us both morally superior.

When you see a murder about to take place and you have the ability to stop it and you stop it... did you then just interfere with that murderer's free will? How does that make any sense?

This limit does not exist... so he leaves certain creation rules in place.
Such as free will.

Preventing a crime from occurring is not, in any way, a breach of someone's free will.
You make no sense at all.

When my son is about to give his sister a beating, I stop it and punish him for giving his sister a beating - even if the beating hasn't taken place yet. He already made the decision to do so. Just because I prevented it from occurring doesn't absolve him from his guilt thereof, nore does it interfere with his free will.

Instead, I'm just preventing my daughter from suffering by undergoing a beating.

When people choose to murder, God lets this happen by default.

Apparantly. Total immoral prick.

Because he chose to set up the creation rule of free will.

Preventing a crime from occurring does not interfere with free will.
You make no sense.

When humans receive punishment after death, it's because they deserve it and I believe God is fair.

According to mainstream christian doctrine...
An atheist who never hurt a fly gets punished in hell.
But the equivalent of Adolf Hitler who has a sincere deathbed conversion, gets the eternal reward.

Nothing fair about a system where gullibility is rewarded and honest skepticism is punished, regardless of behavior.

Well, Satan rebelled.
I don't make a nonsense argument here, I think.

So, knowing god exists, instead of having to believe on bad evidence, does not at all interfere with free will either.

Meaning that there's no reason for god to play "hide and seek". At least, "protecting free will" is not such a reason. Satan would know for a fact god exists and wouldn't require to "just believe" on bad evidence. Yet, clearly his free will remains intact.

------
God according to the Bible sometimes sweats when working, it seems. See Isaiah 43:24.

Which is downright bizar for an "immaterial" being.

Note also that according to the Bible, humans are given tremendous powers, too.
They could say to a mountain it shall move and it will move, it just requires faith.

Yeah.... good luck with that.

So, according to a Biblical understanding, men are similar to God.

And according to scientology we are vessels for alien spirits called Thetans.

Such things mean very little unless they can actually be validated in reality.
So call me when somebody moves a mountain, or a grain of salt, through "telepathy".

thomas t · Feb 9, 2021

TagliatelliMonster said:
A loving colleague wouldn't allow his followers to die horrible deaths. The point. You keep missing it.

That depends.
If the colleages say: "hey if it helps God's mission, I'm totally fine with being murdured. I'm going to be murdered for it!"
... in this case I would definitely refrain from saving my colleages.
Instead the martyrs sang praise songs whil being murdered. This is how the legend goes, however, Bonhoeffer also chose to be murdered.
Nawalny returns to Russia, in full knowledge what will await him.
So, no need for any sort of big Thomas to intervene and stop him right at the border, I think.

So the martyrs go to heaven and do so with a joyful heart and are satisfied to meet Jesus in heaven, this is totally fine.

All the rest learns a lesson: it doesn't make sense to go around killing people because of their faith.
Perfect message, in my opinion.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Also, a public display of his powers would have prevented that persecution all together, since nobody would have doubted or mocked these early christians. Instead, they all would have become christians.

Bible teaches something else:
Cain murdered his brother. He knew who God was. He knew that he shouldn't have had murdered him.
He murdered his brother into the face of God the creator. These things you just described did nothing to stop him.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Indeed. Horrible being.
If I had the power to stop a murder or a pedophile rape - I would.
Your god instead sits back and watches it unfold and thinks to himself "I'm going to allow this and when you're done and you die, then I'm going to punish you - unless you repent and accept me off course, then you'll receive eternal bliss instead".

Actually, it's not a horrible being. He did not do anything wrong, as see it.
Rape? I would inform the police.
Actually, God leaves it up to us humans to prevent murders.
This is totally fine, I think.
Responsibilities please.

Your comparison with your children is not quite right, because not everyone is God's child, as I see it.

TagliatelliMonster said:
You would to.

no, when Hitler came to power in Germany, I would have left the country. That's all. So many murders.... without me, I would have thought.
If I could prevent a murder on the street in Germany now, I would call the police first.

TagliatelliMonster said:
So really, if anything, this god set them all up for brutal persecution. Clearly that was his plan all along.

no, see above. I think, God wanted the message that it does not make sense for religious leaders to go around killing everybody who does not agree. Western countries got the hint by now.
God's plan as I see it.
It was great, in my opinion.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Jesus is god. An immortal being. He can't die.
It was, at best, just a show off.

they killed his body. So they at least killed something. You don't get to tell me they did not kill anything, if this was what you were after.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Which is downright bizar for an "immaterial" being.

Well, God does work.
He worked 6 days for instance when he set up creation. It is work and we shouldn't cause him to work, in my opinion.

TagliatelliMonster said:
An atheist who never hurt a fly gets punished in hell.

No, this is atheist theology.

Mainstream Christianity says nobody ever makes it to never harm anyone or anything. Except Jesus Christ.
It is for that reason that they receive some punishment.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Meaning that there's no reason for god to play "hide and seek". At least, "protecting free will" is not such a reason. Satan would know for a fact god exists and wouldn't require to "just believe" on bad evidence. Yet, clearly his free will remains intact.

Kindly, I stay with my opinion. There is no reason for God to go into an environment that wants to kill.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Preventing a crime from occurring does not interfere with free will.
You make no sense.

actually, if God chose to stop free will in case of murder... it would be interfering with free will an earth. At least in the case of murder.
What comes next? God stopping all sorts of crime?
So there would be no free will for people to commit a crime, anymore.
This was against God's creation rules, I think.

EDITED to add last paragraph

McBell · Feb 9, 2021

thomas t said:
neither did God, in my opinion.

Thank you for this.
I now know you are not to be taken seriously on this topic.

Have a nice day.

thomas t · Feb 9, 2021

Mestemia said:
Thank you for this.
I now know you are not to be taken seriously on this topic.

Have a nice day.

this is getting personal, can you stop this please?

McBell · Feb 9, 2021

thomas t said:
this is getting personal, can you stop this please?

I have stopped.
Since I can no longer take you seriously in this thread, I am done replying to your nonsense.

Unless you keep provoking me.

Ball is in your court now.
I suggest you keep it there.

thomas t · Feb 9, 2021

Mestemia said:
I have stopped.
Since I can no longer take you seriously in this thread, I am done replying to your nonsense.

Unless you keep provoking me.

Ball is in your court now.
I suggest you keep it there.

rest assured you can take me seriously, I think.
It wasn't nonsense what I said.

McBell · Feb 9, 2021

thomas t said:
rest assured you can take me seriously, I think.
It wasn't nonsense what I said.

Except your very posts strongly indicate otherwise.

TagliatelliMonster · Feb 9, 2021

thomas t said:
That depends.
If the colleages say: "hey if it helps God's mission, I'm totally fine with being murdured. I'm going to be murdered for it!"
... in this case I would definitely refrain from saving my colleages.
Instead the martyrs sang praise songs whil being murdered. This is how the legend goes, however, Bonhoeffer also chose to be murdered.
Nawalny returns to Russia, in full knowledge what will await him.
So, no need for any sort of big Thomas to intervene and stop him right at the border, I think.

I love how you keep comparing your god's behavior to human barbarity, evils, brutality and pointless violence. Very telling.

So the martyrs go to heaven and do so with a joyful heart and are satisfied to meet Jesus in heaven, this is totally fine.

This reminds me of a "moral" argument put forward by William Lame Craig once... he was "defending" infanticide in the bible - as if there exists a context where it is ever ok to mass slaughter babies and toddlers - by saying "but all those children are in heaven now...".

All the rest learns a lesson: it doesn't make sense to go around killing people because of their faith.
Perfect message, in my opinion.

It's been 2000 years. People haven't stopped killing people for their beliefs and there is no end of that practice in sight, not even remotely. So no lessons were learned at all. Seems your god's brutal, immoral and barbaric plan failed miserably. His plans have a habit of doing that though... reading the bible, it's failure after failure after failure.

Bible teaches something else:
Cain murdered his brother. He knew who God was. He knew that he shouldn't have had murdered him.
He murdered his brother into the face of God the creator. These things you just described did nothing to stop him.

False analogy.
1. we are talking about non-christians persecuting christians for being christians. If the non-christians became christians, that particular motive would have gone away

2. I noted several posts ago already that "knowing" god exists does not prevent one to do whatever one wants, by pointing out the whole Satan rebellion thingy.

Actually, it's not a horrible being. He did not do anything wrong, as see it.

Being able to prevent horrible crimes and not doing so, makes you complicit. It is absolutely horrible.
Imagine finding out that some guy could have easily saved your child from brutal gang rape followed by being brutally murdered. You wouldn't have a problem with that?

Be serious please.

There's no reason for holding god to a different standard.

Responsibilities please.

If you have the ability to prevent horror, you have a moral responsibility to do so. This is the case for every moral agent.

Your comparison with your children is not quite right, because not everyone is God's child, as I see it.

I'ld do it, no matter if it concerns my children or not.

Whenever I see some clip on youtube or what-have-you of youngsters beating the crap out of some kid with a bunch of bystanders just standing there watching it happen.... I actually am almost more horrified by their inaction then the beating itself.

no, when Hitler came to power in Germany, I would have left the country. That's all. So many murders.... without me, I would have thought.
If I could prevent a murder on the street in Germany now, I would call the police first.

To me, that makes you an immoral coward.

no, see above. I think, God wanted the message that it does not make sense for religious leaders to go around killing everybody who does not agree. Western countries got the hint by now.

1. it only took 2000 years

2. ironically, western countries only started getting the hint once secular humanism made them realize it.

they killed his body. So they at least killed something.

No. A dead body stays dead.
You can't kill immortal beings by definition. No matter how much you spin it.

You don't get to tell me they did not kill anything, if this was what you were after.

I most certainly get to point out the obvious fact that immortal beings can't be killed.

No, this is atheist theology.

It is not. It's christian dogma. Not a christian = not saved.

actually, if God chose to stop free will in case of murder... it would be interfering with free will an earth. At least in the case of murder.

You make no sense. Stopping a crime from occurring does not interfere with free will.
When the FBI dismantles a terrorist plot, they aren't "interfering" with the free will of the terrorists.

What comes next? God stopping all sorts of crime?
So there would be no free will for people to commit a crime, anymore.

Do terrorists who are caught before they can set their plans in motion have their free will taken away?
You make no sense.

Tiberius · Feb 9, 2021

thomas t said:
+
no, that wasn't my point here.
Let me put it this way:
On Wednesday the fireman was asked if he would save a child from a burning building (in case).
The fire department offers him 100€ extra for such a service.
The fireman agrees and offers the department to make a donation of 100€ in this case.
Later, the same exact scenario happened and the fireman was asked to save the child.
So he did.
He was given the 100€. But since he said he would make the donation ... he gave it back to the department.
After, the department bought a tree worth 100€.

The tree is the free pass to receive forgiveness. It is applicable to all humanity... on condition that they believe this story.
Wednesday was the day before the creation of the foundations of the earth.
And Jesus was the fireman.
Nice, isn't it?
To be precise, people "only" need to believe He is Lord and get the baptism and this is how they get the the free pass.
I believe Jesus is Lord!

This is at least how I see the story.

And again, it is not the same thing.

Now, if you had said that the fireman was trained with the intent that he be killed saving the child, and it was always certain that he would be killed saving the child, then maybe you'd be closer to the mark.

thomas t · Feb 10, 2021

Mestemia said:
Except your very posts strongly indicate otherwise.

except that they didn't.
So, in order to make an effort to get off this merry go round: you may have the last word.
But note, even if you repeat that I puportedly wrote nonsense: I stick to my opinion that I did not.
If you don't resort to personal attacks, I won't answer your reply.

thomas t · Feb 10, 2021

TagliatelliMonster said:
I love how you keep comparing your god's behavior to human barbarity, evils, brutality and pointless violence. Very telling.

no.
Actually I did not compare God's actions to atrocities.
I said: if the colleagues say they would love to die to serve God, ... then it's ok.
The atrocities stem from somewhere else.

TagliatelliMonster said:
This reminds me of a "moral" argument put forward by William Lame Craig once... he was "defending" infanticide in the bible - as if there exists a context where it is ever ok to mass slaughter babies and toddlers - by saying "but all those children are in heaven now...".

this is incomparable. The children weren't asked.

TagliatelliMonster said:
It's been 2000 years. People haven't stopped killing people for their beliefs and there is no end of that practice in sight, not even remotely. So no lessons were learned at all. Seems your god's brutal, immoral and barbaric plan failed miserably. His plans have a habit of doing that though... reading the bible, it's failure after failure after failure.

Actually, at least in the global West, even in Belgium where you live, people aren't killed for their beliefs anymore. Lesson learned. Hallelujah.

TagliatelliMonster said:
False analogy.
1. we are talking about non-christians persecuting christians for being christians. If the non-christians became christians, that particular motive would have gone away

2. I noted several posts ago already that "knowing" god exists does not prevent one to do whatever one wants, by pointing out the whole Satan rebellion thingy.

I referred to this statement of yours:
Also, a public display of his powers would have prevented that persecution all together, since nobody would have doubted or mocked these early christians.

Cain knew how very powerful God is. He didn't care and killed regardless.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Being able to prevent horrible crimes and not doing so, makes you complicit. It is absolutely horrible.
Imagine finding out that some guy could have easily saved your child from brutal gang rape followed by being brutally murdered. You wouldn't have a problem with that?

Be serious please.

There's no reason for holding god to a different standard.

Yes it is.
I have free choice just as the criminal has.
So I have the duty to intervene.

God wants to allow for free will. (on my side, but also on the criminal's side)
If he would intervene anytime there is a crime... there is no free will left for criminals, of course.

TagliatelliMonster said:
I'ld do it, no matter if it concerns my children or not.

Whenever I see some clip on youtube or what-have-you of youngsters beating the crap out of some kid with a bunch of bystanders just standing there watching it happen.... I actually am almost more horrified by their inaction then the beating itself.

yes, I would call the police.
I would also go to all these bystanders telling them they or we should go there together to stop the beating.
However, if God would intervene every single time... no free will is left for the criminals.

TagliatelliMonster said:
You make no sense. Stopping a crime from occurring does not interfere with free will.
When the FBI dismantles a terrorist plot, they aren't "interfering" with the free will of the terrorists.

+

TagliatelliMonster said:
Do terrorists who are caught before they can set their plans in motion have their free will taken away?
You make no sense.

I think I do.
God wants free will: for both the FBI and the criminal.
If the FBI is strong enough they can dismantle something.

TagliatelliMonster said:
It is not. It's christian dogma. Not a christian = not saved.

this wasn't what I referred to.
When discussing with you it often happens to me that you rip my quotes out of context.

I referred to your statement that people would purportedly go to hell even if they never did anything wrong.

Please stay fair here.

TagliatelliMonster said:
No. A dead body stays dead.
You can't kill immortal beings by definition. No matter how much you spin it.

I most certainly get to point out the obvious fact that immortal beings can't be killed.

According to atheists, it can't happen.
However, we think God is able to incarnate as a human being and suffer physical death. Jesus soul survived though.

TagliatelliMonster · Feb 10, 2021

thomas t said:
Actually, at least in the global West, even in Belgium where you live, people aren't killed for their beliefs anymore. Lesson learned. Hallelujah.

I have two words for you: nazi germany.
Sure that was 80 years ago. Your god story was 2000 years ago. Might as well be "today" in the grand scheme of things. In fact, just yesterday I read an article about a 97-year old who's on trial for his role in some concentration camp. So there are still people alive today who witnessed this.

I referred to this statement of yours:
Also, a public display of his powers would have prevented that persecution all together, since nobody would have doubted or mocked these early christians.

...for their beliefs. Because then they would have believed just like they did.

Cain knew how very powerful God is. He didn't care and killed regardless.

You're repeating the same mistake.
Read the 2 points again.

Yes it is.
I have free choice just as the criminal has.
So I have the duty to intervene.

your god doesn't have free will? Your god is not a moral agent?

God wants to allow for free will. (on my side, but also on the criminal's side)
If he would intervene anytime there is a crime... there is no free will left for criminals, of course.

Wrong.
Interfering with free will would be like what your god did to pharaoh in the exodus myth. Pharaoh was going to allow the slaves to walk away, but god "hardened his heart" and thus made him decide otherwise.

Preventing a crime is very different. The criminal already made his decision.
It's not different from the FBI dismantling a terrorist plot. There's no "brainwashing" or "brain manipulation" or "heart hardening" going on there. There's just the rounding up of criminals and stopping them before they can carry out their crime.

Tampering with free will would involve manipulating someone into making another decision then the one he wanted to make. Allowing a person to make his decision and then merely stopping the action that person is planning to carry out, is not the same thing.

yes, I would call the police.

I would too. And I wouldn't stand there waiting for them to arrive and in the meantime allowing the kid to be beaten to a pulp. If I had the ability to intervene - I would.

Because I'm not a moral thug.

I would also go to all these bystanders telling them they or we should go there together to stop the beating.
However, if God would intervene every single time... no free will is left for the criminals.

You make no sense.
If you intervening doesn't tamper with their free will, then how would it be different if someone else did - be it gods or aliens or what-have-you.

God wants free will: for both the FBI and the criminal.
If the FBI is strong enough they can dismantle something.

And god isn't strong enough to do the same?

It's very simple.....
Either god can intervene but doesn't want to - which makes him a moral thug.
Or god can't intervene, regardless of wanting to - which makes him not omnipotent.
Or god can intervene, but doesn't know when he has to - which makes him not omniscient.

Or, off course... god doesn't intervene because there is no god to intervene.
Which is what I consider most likely, since it is most in line with rational evidence.

this wasn't what I referred to.
When discussing with you it often happens to me that you rip my quotes out of context.

I referred to your statement that people would purportedly go to hell even if they never did anything wrong.
Please stay fair here.

It is fair.
Mainstream christian dogma: not a christian = not saved.

So a non-christian who never did anything wrong, is not "saved".
On top of that, someone who did nothing but wrong for most of his life and then becomes a christian and turns his life around, DOES get saved.

Do deny this? Or is it not so in your particular denomination?
If you disagree, please tell me what YOUR christian theology says will happen to non-christians. In your theology, can non-christians end up in heaven? It's a yes / no question. I don't need qualifiers.

According to atheists, it can't happen.

No. According to the definition of "immortal", it can't happen.
Only mortal things can die.

It's literally what the words mean.

However, we think God is able to incarnate as a human being and suffer physical death. Jesus soul survived though.

Which is meaningless imo.

If you "kill" me and I can then just, with a proverbial snap of my fingers, move into a new identical body and continue going my way, did you then really "kill" me?

Your god in fact didn't even bother to create a new identical body. He continued using the same body, which was supposedly "killed".

Muffled · Feb 10, 2021

I believe Google says that the game was invented in Greece in 2BC. Whether Jesus ever played it is unknown.

Muffled · Feb 10, 2021

Audie said:
The hide and seek game is there, but on
a different level.

An imaginary God is a game. Of course nobody
can find it.

As for this "cross" business, that was
(according to the rules of the game)
planned all along, and a weird sort
of gift to mankind.

Now, if he is chicken to come back
that sounds dubious, but, will have to
do as yet another ad hoc "explanation"
for why nobody can detect the nonexistent.

I believe when you have a blind spot you can't find anything through it. I find God without any problem at all.

Muffled · Feb 10, 2021

ratiocinator said:
Firstly, in your mythology, the cross was kind of the plan, wasn't it?

Secondly, if this god of yours didn't incarnate itself as just another human preacher but actually revealed itself directly, then the whole argument falls down.

Thirdly, a game of hide-and-seek is, if it's important for humans to believe, not only childish but cruel and manifestly unjust.

Matt 11:8 What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

I expect Jesus wore common clothing since he was the adopted son of a laborer. I believe it is the miracles that reveal God.

thomas t · Feb 10, 2021

neither me nor God is a moral thug.

TagliatelliMonster said:
...for their beliefs. Because then they would have believed just like they did.

+

TagliatelliMonster said:
You're repeating the same mistake.
Read the 2 points again.

Look, it doesn't matter if people are killed for their beliefs or, slightly different, for their practice of what they believe - like in Abel's case.
When they are dead they are dead, it's as simple as that.

TagliatelliMonster said:
your god doesn't have free will? Your god is not a moral agent?

He set up the creation rule 1: people should have free will.
And it stays like this.
God cannot interfere preventing every single crime and pretend there is free will to commit a crime.
You can't have it both ways. Either you have free will to commit a crime, or you don't.

It's like wanting to construct the square triangle.
You can't do it, God can't either.

TagliatelliMonster said:
Wrong.

see above.

TagliatelliMonster said:
You make no sense.
If you intervening doesn't tamper with their free will, then how would it be different if someone else did - be it gods or aliens or what-have-you.

actually, there is a difference:
when I want to hinder crimes, I can prevent 1 or 2.
If God starts to hinder every crime, there is no crime then, is this so difficult to understand?
I'm not advocating crime.
I'm merely saying; hey, there is a creation rule and it means free will.
If there are no possibilities left to commit real crimes... then there is no free will to commit them.

I do make sense, see below.

TagliatelliMonster said:
And god isn't strong enough to do the same?

God does not want to destroy free will.
If God hinders crimes every single time... there would be no option left to commit crimes.
However, God wanted free will.
It's as simple as that.

TagliatelliMonster said:
So a non-christian who never did anything wrong, is not "saved".
On top of that, someone who did nothing but wrong for most of his life and then becomes a christian and turns his life around, DOES get saved.

Do deny this? Or is it not so in your particular denomination?
If you disagree, please tell me what YOUR christian theology says will happen to non-christians. In your theology, can non-christians end up in heaven? It's a yes / no question. I don't need qualifiers.

actually, people who never did anything wrong don't exist, according to the Bible.
Anyone who suffers in hell does so for his own wrongdoing.
The Bible, as I interpret it, is more or less silent on the question whether od not non-believers can end up somewhere else than hell. So am I, if you permit.
One last word:
Actually, there seem to be some stipulations for non-believers though.
A non-believing wife, for instance, can enter heaven, if she stays married and if her children are all Christians. It's like a group ticket to heaven and she is included.
See 1 Timothy 2:15. Note that this was my interpretation of said verse.
Also note that theologians usually translate the "through childbearing" like "carried through childbearing", but I don't agree, here.
For me, salvation is more than just surviving the bringing up of children. That's why I don't agree with the standard interpretation of said verse.

TagliatelliMonster said:
No. According to the definition of "immortal", it can't happen.
Only mortal things can die.

It's literally what the words mean.

Jesus was physically mortal.

TagliatelliMonster said:
If you "kill" me and I can then just, with a proverbial snap of my fingers, move into a new identical body and continue going my way, did you then really "kill" me?

Your god in fact didn't even bother to create a new identical body. He continued using the same body, which was supposedly "killed".

Let me put it that way: if you break a window and I restore it, you still destroyed it.
Yeah you did. Even if I easily fixed it afterwards.

9-10ths_Penguin · Feb 14, 2021

thomas t said:
In Interfaith Discussion, someone said so.
Since I want to debate, let me open up a thread in the debate section now.

In my opinion it is not childish to play hide and seek.
For - the Christian - God it makes sense, in my view.

Last time he landed on the cross.
Why should he bother to come into an environment in which people want to kill him (again)?
Even if he is powerful enough to prevent others from killing him - the mere experience of people trying to kill him must be an unpleasant one, I guess.

This is arguing for the Christian God conception. At least seen from my point of view.

Anyone please feel free to add their views on how this issue is handled in other religions...

I saw a meme on Facebook that made me think of this thread:

It's often possible to come up with a wild story that's consistent with the facts: "God is real; we just can't see him because he's hiding." "The 'lawyer cat' really is a cat; he's just claiming he's not because he wants to convince us he's a human."

... but at a certain point, we have to step back and ask ourselves whether these mental gymnastics are reasonable, and whether we shouldn't just accept the obvious explanation staring us in the face.

thomas t · Feb 14, 2021

I don't think it's obvious that God does not exist.
It's obvious according to you, but that doesn't make it obvious.

9-10ths_Penguin said:
these mental gymnastics are reasonable,

so let's see how your mental gymnasics work here:

9-10ths_Penguin said:
"God is real; we just can't see him because he's hiding."

That's not my story though.
My point is: I believe in God.
The story "if God was real, it doesn't make sense for him to be hiding" is the one I am challenging here.
Always step back and take your look at stories.

Does God Play "Hide and Seek"?

thomas t

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thomas t

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thomas t

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thomas t

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