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AOC back with her fake photo op acting again..

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Democrats should make sure that Republicans know that any Bill bearing Cruz's signature will go into the dumpster.
Even if they believe it's good for the country,
they should oppose it just because of hatred?
Oh, that makes sense.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Even if they believe it's good for the country,
they should oppose it just because of hatred?
Oh, that makes sense.


You do need to improve your reading skills. I suggested Republicans keep Cruz out of the loop if they want things passed.

And again, it's not hatred. It's punishment. It's to minimize Cruz.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You do need to improve your reading skills. I suggested Republicans keep Cruz out of the loop if they want things passed.
That appears to be predicated on hatred.
Or vengeance, if you prefer.
And again, it's not hatred. It's punishment. It's to minimize Cruz.
Punishment motivated by what....hatred or vengeance?
What you advocate is more partisan divide.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Despite that long post justifying AOC's accusation,
it remains baseless. So either she's viciously
dishonest or out of touch with reality.

Maybe a tinge of each but its mostly
political opportunism. Sorta like all the
other swamp angels.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Punishment motivated by what....hatred or vengeance?
You believe punishment is only motivated by hatred or vengeance?
Did you hate your kids when you punished them?
Were you acting out of vengeance when you punished them?

Really sad.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You believe punishment is only motivated by hatred or vengeance?
Did you hate your kids when you punished them?
Were you acting out of vengeance when you punished them?
You'd have them punish Cruz to what purpose...love for him?
Or to teach him something?
To sacrifice bi-partisan cooperation, putting the country's interest second to that doesn't seem consistent except with vengeance.
Really sad.
It's sad watching you constantly defend the Trump faction. Especially since you vehemently deny doing so.
You are easily made sad & angry.
This interferes with reason.
You mistake urging cooperation with defense.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I recall AOC said Ted Cruz was trying to kill her in late January. Was she lying?

I think for something to qualify as a lie it must be known to be false by the person who made it.

So, I wonder how one could unambiguously prove on the basis of the facts that AOC has knowingly asserted a falsehood here? I can think of more than one chain of evidence and reasoning that would lead me to believe that is possible. But I can also think of other chains that would lead me to believe it is possible she did not.

For instance, I think anyone, including AOC, can figure out that an experienced and skilled politician like Cruz is most likely aware of what can happen if he participates in ginning up already hateful and fearful people with language that can easily be interpreted by them as calls for revolutionary violence against their political enemies.

That's what Cruz had been doing for some considerable while right up to a day or two before 1/6. (Some say he was competing with Josh Hawley to see who could become the favorite darling and leader of the right, post-Trump.) So, it seems conceivable that Cruz anticipated the possibility of a violent attack on the Capitol Building while AOC and other lawmakers were present, and even that such an attack could easily lead to AOC's murder.

If he didn't think of it himself, there were numerous people who did, and who warned of such likelihoods in the days before 1/6. For Cruz not to have heard of those findings assumes that not only he never came across any of the warnings, but no one on his staff or among his colleagues thought to tell him about any. I can't believe that is likely.

Well, that's a start. I don't want to write a novella, so I'll leave it at that, but I think anyone can dig into it and find there's some ambiguity here about whether AOC knew she was asserting a falsehood when she said Cruz tried to kill her. But there's something even more to the point here. If she knew it was not entirely provable that Cruz tried to kill her -- no inside information, for instance, that might confirm it to her -- then was she exaggerating or lying out of whole cloth?

Again, I'm just giving a rough draft of several possible chains of evidence and logic that might be applied here to reach an overall conclusion that we cannot reasonably be sure AOC was lying, or if she was lying, whether her lie is cut from whole cloth, or partially true.

Last, if anyone in the past has cut Trump any slack on the grounds they thought no one could be reasonably certain of Trump's meanings, then please feel free to explain how their reasons for cutting Trump slack might apply or not apply here as well.



In 2016, Kellyanne Conway declared the right lives in a new age, an age of "Alternative Facts". Fine, the right lives in an Age of Alternative Facts, now. But does the right also live in an Age of "Alternative Logic", too?
That's basically how I feel about it. It wasn't really the best wording, especially the "me" part because this mob did want Dem and Rep blood alike, but she's not entirely wrong. Ted Cruz, with knowledge of what may happen of his actions or not, did play a role in the fermenting the Capital Riot. He did help assemble and encourage the mob who seems to have wanted to try to murder many politicians. And Ted Cruz trying to extend a hand of bipartisanship like he did, he's playing Trump politics where he can at least say he put on his big boy undies and made the effort. He tried. He ignored the devastating consequences of what he did and acts like nothings up, and we just cannot excuse this. This isn't normal politics, and we must not let it become normal. Cruz did play an role in that did lead to an attempted insurrection and deadly election in America. He did betray the nation, he did it all on a lie and for his career, so we basically have to assume his requests for bipartisanship aren't worth much. He can't act as if his reputation isn't tainted. We shouldn't have to tolerate and suffer those who did such a thing governing us.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Democrats should make sure that Republicans know that any Bill bearing Cruz's signature will go into the dumpster.
It really does need to be used as a pressure point or tourniquet sort of thing, making it clear such things are not tolerated.
We would expect the Reps to do it to Dems who did the same. This is about something much bigger than partisan bickering.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
You'd have them punish Cruz to what purpose...love for him?
Or to teach him something?
To sacrifice bi-partisan cooperation, putting the country's interest second to that doesn't seem consistent except with vengeance.
Punishment is typically meted out for moral or legal wrongdoings and violations of commonly accepted rules. It seems to me like the real disagreement here isn't why Cruz is supposed to be punished, but whether he actually did anything wrong or immoral to begin with.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Punishment is typically meted out for moral or legal wrongdoings and violations of commonly accepted rules. It seems to me like the real disagreement here isn't why Cruz is supposed to be punished, but whether he actually did anything wrong or immoral to begin with.
If they don't impeach & remove him,
then they should work with him.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
You'd have them punish Cruz to what purpose...love for him?
Or to teach him something?
Neither.
To punish him for his part in the desecration of the US Capitol building.
To punish him for his part in the death of a Capitol Police Officer.
To punish him for his part in the injuries suffered by many Capitol Police Officers.
To punish him for violating his oath of office to defend the Constitution of the United States as exemplified by his refusal to accept the results of the votes of the people.



To sacrifice bi-partisan cooperation, putting the country's interest second to that doesn't seem consistent except with vengeance.

Ostracizing one Senator is not sacrificing bi-partisan cooperation. It should strengthen it.
Ostracizing one Senator is not putting the Country's interest second. The best interests of the Country are served when the Constitution is respected and followed. Perhaps you disagree.

You are easily made sad & angry.
This interferes with reason.
Made angry - yes. Easily - no. It took two months of repeated Republican denials of the validity of the election to make me angry. It took constant repetition of false claims by top Republicans to make me angry. It took a president pressuring election officials to "find 11,000 votes" to make me angry. It took people like Senator Cruz lying about the election results to make me angry.

That these things don't make you angry just, once again, shows where you stand.

You mistake urging cooperation with defense.
Nonsense.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Especially when it is selective, only applied
against the other team.
True dat.
Saint AOC doesn't lie...she just needs convoluted rationalizations
to explain how her counter-factual statements are true....sort of.
cortez-crazy-eyes.jpg
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
You mistake urging cooperation with defense.

Except that he's not the only one who has noticed this; I have as well:

It's sad watching you constantly defend the Trump faction. Especially since you vehemently deny doing so.

I'm no fan of Democrats or liberalism myself, but when you have violent insurrectionists and their supporters on one side and those who believe such violence should be legally penalized on the other, any pretense of "urging cooperation" becomes little more than thinly veiled partisan apologetics.
 
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Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Darn..she is hotter competition for Hillary
than I realized.

Would it be fair to take the above childish comment as representative of the intellectual level you wish to bring to this discussion, or should one be optimistic and assume you are capable of more mature reasoning?
 
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