Shocked To Find Out Yahweh Was Originally A Canaanite God Who Had A Wife, Asherah

Messianic Israelite · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
Never in my wildest imagination when I was a Christian would I have believed that Jesus' Father, Yahweh actually originated in the Canaanite lands in pre-Israel times. That would make Yahweh a pagan god which the ancient Hebrews apparently adopted as their god. More shocking, Yahweh had a wife/consort named Asherah which would make Asherah Jesus' mom.

"Initially [Yahweh] seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief."

Yahweh <<<<link

So it turns out the early Hebrews were part of the Canaanite culture, although Genesis claims Abraham their patriarch came from the Sumerian city of Ur. And when they broke away from the Canaanites they adopted Yahweh as their chief war god although Yahweh originally was a lesser god from a pantheon of Canaanite gods including their chief god, El and Baal, Asherah and Astarte.

Moreover, Yahweh had a wife. She was worshiped alongside Yahweh. The Old Testament mentions her several times. It wasn't until the Babylonian captivity that Yahweh basically "divorced" her in the sense that the Jews became monotheistic at that point.

"God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshipped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar. She bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess."

Did God have a wife? Scholar says that he did <<<<link

Did God Have a Wife? - Wikipedia <<<<link

I'm curious to hear what Christians here think about their god originally being a pagan god and having a wife who, if we are to believe the strong scholarship supporting this, was the one who gave birth to Jesus. So Jesus wasn't begotten, he was a product of celestial sex.

SeekingAllTruth. Good evening. Seems to me, you still have your ways to go before you FindAllTruth. I skim read the article. Perhaps I will go back and read in thoroughly. I was laughing as I read it. I can only expect Yahweh would do the same. It's nonsense.

Yahweh was undoubtedly known to Adam and Eve in the Garden. They passed this knowledge on to their descendants. Noah would have passed this down to his descendents. Abraham his, and so on. But obviously then there would have been Caananites and other people's who knew the Name, but didn't maintain a pure worship of Yahweh like the Israelites at least tried to do. Do you remember the Golden Calf incident? Aaron said in Exodus 32:4 " And he received it at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, and made it a molten calf: and they said, These are thy elohim, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5 And when Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To-morrow shall be a feast to Yahweh" Significant why? Because although Aaron had made an idolatrous object to worship, he said that the feast was to Yahweh. Moses came and corrected the situation of course, but if this could happen with the Israelites, how much more could it happen with the people who were not Israelites?

Scholars are essentially grasping at straws. Most of the theory operates on conjecture. Is this really the reason why you choose not to believe in Yahweh? Adam and Eve didn't start with polytheism. They started with monotheism and truth. Some, if not many religions, may therefore have some truth in them. That doesn't mean we should rush headlong and believe a lie.

It's a treacherous lie that Yahweh was developed, and the notion of Yahweh evolved. As for me, I'm going to do as the Psalmist says. Psalm 7:17 says "I will give thanks unto Yahweh according to his righteousness, And will sing praise to the name of Yahweh Most High."

URAVIP2ME · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
............ I suppose satan planted those old antiquities of Asherah in the archeological digs 5000 years ago so archeologists would dig them up today and come to conclusions that are just satan's lies to trick people, right? "It's a trick of the devil". I guess that's still alive and well in 2021.

Those antiquities simply prove 'un-faithful' Israelites disobeyed God by mixing with pagan idol worship which corrupted them.
Please see my previous post # 3

epronovost · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
I'm not going to argue with you, Skywalker because you'll BS me to death. I produced clear convincing Biblical scholarship showing that Yahweh originally was a Canaanite lesser god to the main god, El. You show us non-Christian archeological evidence showing that Yahweh WASN'T a Canaanite god. Go ahead. I dare you.

Even worst, genetical studies and archeological findings in region push the bounderies one step further. Hebrews are Canaanites. They are simply a branch of a wdier familly.

Harel13 · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
Are you actually trying to argue cutting-edge archeological disciplines in the advanced university studies of ancient religions with a 3,000 year old holy book that has been translated and re-translated 10,000 times???????
View attachment 47343

You know, until the 90s, many archeologists doubted the existence of the House of David. Then they found the Tel Dan Stele.
Even archeology is not definitive.

74x12 · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
I'm just repeating what the experts state. You're not a Biblical scholar either so how do say," Ashera is not the wife of Yahweh" and not give a Biblical expert's citation for that? You're just giving us your biased Christian opinion because you don't like the fact this is what Biblical scholars have discovered. Yahweh originally was a Canaanite god. Here, I'll give you the citation again:

"Although the biblical narratives depict Yahweh as the sole creator god, lord of the universe, and god of the Israelites especially, initially he seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism"

Yahweh

Jewish God Yahweh Originated in Canaanite Vulcan, Says New Theory
The cult of YHWH as god of metallurgy originated among semi-nomadic copper smelters between the Bronze and Iron Age, suggests biblical scholar: And he was not worshipped only by Jews

Jewish god Yahweh originated in Canaanite Vulcan, says new theory

I can give you more if you want. Now you disprove it using secular Biblical scholarship.

No need to disprove either of those statements.

Let's look at what you quoted ... Notice the key word in the first quote "seems" and the keywords in the second quote "theory" and "suggests". Neither of these statements are facts or really even proof. It's just what some "experts" are currently theorizing. Such theories and similar ones are a dime a dozen and there are many conflicting theories at this point.

Kenny · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
So you're saying Yahweh, the "true" god came to the canaanites first and said to them, "I am your god" before he said it to the Jews? Remember, scholarship says the Yahweh was subordinate to the BIG canaanite god, El. That's why El appears in Genesis--he's an offshoot of Canaanite mythology. That's why Genesis says, "Let US make man", not "I will make man".

No... I am saying that YHWY was God. The Canaanites then began to create religions and thus they have a semblance of YHWH but they added to the truth of YHWH and that is why there are traces within Baal. However, God delineated who was the true God.

So, you don't have to be surprised

Terrywoodenpic · Jan 30, 2021

Harel13 said:
You know, until the 90s, many archeologists doubted the existence of the House of David. Then they found the Tel Dan Stele.
Even archeology is not definitive.

Archaeology is continuing to give us revised insights into the past, and will continue to do so.
As the Tel Can Steps require considerable expertise to read at all, and all such readings and interpretations are no more than alternative possibilities, it as yet proves nothing at All.

People of those times had fertile imaginations, and the links between their beliefs are clear to see but almost impossible to define. The earliest Hebrew Bibles were not written down until the Babylonian enslavement,. And is a combination of the oral Bibles of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. There are only snippets and incomplete religious texts available to us with dates prior to that.

There is no doubt the Asherah was worshipped as a god and was the wife of Yahweh.
The who why when of all this is more difficult to tie down.

But most certainly was only a distant memory at the time of Jesus. Remembered in a few verses of the Jewish Bible histories.

Harel13 · Jan 30, 2021

Terrywoodenpic said:
Archaeology is continuing to give us revised insights into the past, and will continue to do so.

This is the only thing in what you wrote that I agree with.

Terrywoodenpic · Jan 30, 2021

Harel13 said:
This is the only thing in what you wrote that I agree with.

Sad but not unexpected

ameyAtmA · Jan 30, 2021

firedragon said:
So lets say in an asian country an ancient religion called their God by the word Devi which is synonymous with the word God, is it still monolatry? (Devi is not female as in Sanskrit in all languages)

I would call the ShAktas (devotees of Goddess as ParaBrahman) as Henotheists, because although Devi is ParaBrahman is this frame, which She is, neither the devotees nor Devi make absurd claims that Shiva, Ganesh (Her own son) or VishNu and BrahmA do not exist! They are all Brahman, and more Brahman that anything else!
So also, Devi will not say the appointed positions Indra Surya Vayu Agni do not exist , are false or fake.

It doesn't mean ShAktas worship these devas, but they do not pretend their non-existence. They are parts of Devi.

Yes, at the ultimate absolute level, they are not different forms, there is only One.

Really, the highest truth is realized within and part of that happens by identifying with some of the forms of Brahman.
So...

1. If YHWH is truly the Highest Brahman as we understand in Hindu dharma -- I am more than happy for the people of Abrahamic faiths.

2. Those who have realized the Oneness need not go further.

3. The way YHWH is presented in the Bible - either by the humans or YHWH -- is a Deity with a very specific personality but says He is the ultimate Brahman that contradicts the notion that the other deities do not exist at all , and while He could have said that they exist but you should only worship Me -- He need not have point the gun at the folks. That IMO is monolatry.

(KRshNa speaking as ParaBrahman in Gita explains how worshipers of gods go to gods, their worship is short-lived, and My devotee reaches Me (implying meditate on Brahman within) , but there is a gulf of a difference! He does not point a gun at you, neither does He ask you to push them under the rug!)

... however, when the people speak of "false gods" they either mean that those "previous" gods do not exist <quickly throw them under the rug or bus> or they are made of stone, metal, wood !

oh common! Is this really what YHWH taught them to do? Or is that a misunderstanding? Is it that they are not INDEPENDANT gods apart form the One ?

So there is monotheism-at-gun-point where mere acknowledging the existence of any other divinity - be they aspects of YHWH -- sends them to hell

I have great reverence for Jesus, have felt His blessings too. Jesus represents Guru-tattva , that means , the principle representing the spiritual master.

So if Jesus is saying "I am the way " as in "I am the principle representing the spiritual master" then that means
a) He was just answering His disciples' question -- and He is right - He is the way for His disciples.

b) For the rest of the world outside of Nazareth, it means one should find the right teacher - within-without, in the world, that will take them to Brahman OR He will be their master ( very kind of Him)

But saying that Jesus is the only way to YHWH is not fair to the rest of the Universe
On the other hand it is OK if YHWH is really what the OP says -- a very specific Deity for the middle-east and Mediterranean.

If YHWH is Brahman, Jesus cannot be the only begotten son unless He is the One who came before Him, nor can the trinity possibly ask people on the other side of the world to "nullify" their Devas.
That is because the Trinity would KNOW : the One that others worship as El or VishNu or Brahman or whoever, is the same Brahman!

Do you see the [man-made?] contradiction? Good News: Jesus did NOT ask me to nullify Dev

How can God of Israel be the Universal God unless He is actually a form taken by Brahman? So that circles back to point 1. above. I am happy if that is the case.

----

Also, people argue : There can be only one truth. So we cannot have competing Creator gods.

Yes we can. This is how: Each of the gods claiming to be Creator are either the exact same god, OR they are forms of the same Highest Principle , of the Absolute Truth , that KNOW they are Brahman,

Therefore they are in a position to say I am Brahman and not only this , I am Ishvar, I have created the world.
Whether directly or indirectly, by primary secondary (visarga) and tertiary delegation, they created the world.

So Adi Shakti Devi is creator, VishNu is creator, Shiva is creator, BramhA is creator, YHWH is creator. Allah is creator (assuming He is really really pure Brahman).
El as a proper noun is Creator
El as a common noun is Creator

and/or

They are really the same One which I hope is the case. Time to subtract the dogma now.

Subduction Zone · Jan 30, 2021

74x12 said:
Anyone can claim to have "strong scholarship" but it doesn't stand to deeper scrutiny. There is no proof that the Israelites as a whole worshiped Asherah until the Babylonian exile. In fact the proof from scripture is to the contrary. Yes some Israelites worshiped Asherah but this practice was condemned by those who stuck with the law of Moses.

God's wife was always Israel. Yah is just the name of the most high Eloah. The Canaanites knew about Eloah but corrupted the godhead adding a whole pantheon of lesser gods and eventually replacing El altogether in importance.

So only the Israelites continued to worship the original most high God alone.

Asherah was just another added fake goddess just like the rest. This is why the prophets spoke against her specifically and other goddesses which were there to usurp the glory due to God alone. By the way even though we say God is a "he" we also understand God is not male or female in form.

God's real wife was really the nation Israel itself. The covenant with Israel being a marriage covenant with God.

The mother of Jesus according to scripture is Israel/Jerusalem. It's not Asherah.

When a Christian claims "there is no proof" that almost always means that there is a disturbing amount of evidence that they cannot deal with. Fundamentalists make the error of turning the Bible into a false idol.

Clara Tea · Jan 30, 2021

URAVIP2ME said:
1. To me what is confirmed is: a lack of Bible knowledge.

2. lured un-faithful Israel into the worship of false pagan gods

1. Upsetting to be called ignorant.

2. Upsetting to be told that your Gods are false and Pagan. But are they true Gods? Is our God false? If they had their Gods first, then Jews copied their Gods, how could the God of the Jews be a true God? Christians and Muslims are some form of Jews (since the Christian and Muslim religions came from the Jewish religion). How can the Christian and Muslim religion have a true God if that God is the same God as the Jewish God, and that Jewish God might not be the true God?

I prefer not to insult people and call them ignorant because they believe something different that I do. I prefer not to insult others by telling them that their God is Pagan whereas my God is real.

Clara Tea · Jan 30, 2021

ameyAtmA said:
I would call the ShAktas (devotees of Goddess as ParaBrahman) as Henotheists, because although Devi is ParaBrahman is this frame, which She is, neither the devotees nor Devi make absurd claims that Shiva, Ganesh (Her own son) or VishNu and BrahmA do not exist! They are all Brahman, and more Brahman that anything else!
So also, Devi will not say the appointed positions Indra Surya Vayu Agni do not exist , are false or fake.

It doesn't mean ShAktas worship these devas, but they do not pretend their non-existence. They are parts of Devi.

Yes, at the ultimate absolute level, they are not different forms, there is only One.

Really, the highest truth is realized within and part of that happens by identifying with some of the forms of Brahman.
So...

1. If YHWH is truly the Highest Brahman as we understand in Hindu dharma -- I am more than happy for the people of Abrahamic faiths.

2. Those who have realized the Oneness need not go further.

3. The way YHWH is presented in the Bible - either by the humans or YHWH -- is a Deity with a very specific personality but says He is the ultimate Brahman that contradicts the notion that the other deities do not exist at all , and while He could have said that they exist but you should only worship Me -- He need not have point the gun at the folks. That IMO is monolatry.

(KRshNa speaking as ParaBrahman in Gita explains how worshipers of gods go to gods, their worship is short-lived, and My devotee reaches Me (implying meditate on Brahman within) , but there is a gulf of a difference! He does not point a gun at you, neither does He ask you to push them under the rug!)

... however, when the people speak of "false gods" they either mean that those "previous" gods do not exist <quickly throw them under the rug or bus> or they are made of stone, metal, wood !

oh common! Is this really what YHWH taught them to do? Or is that a misunderstanding? Is it that they are not INDEPENDANT gods apart form the One ?

So there is monotheism-at-gun-point where mere acknowledging the existence of any other divinity - be they aspects of YHWH -- sends them to hell

I have great reverence for Jesus, have felt His blessings too. Jesus represents Guru-tattva , that means , the principle representing the spiritual master.

So if Jesus is saying "I am the way " as in "I am the principle representing the spiritual master" then that means
a) He was just answering His disciples' question -- and He is right - He is the way for His disciples.

b) For the rest of the world outside of Nazareth, it means one should find the right teacher - within-without, in the world, that will take them to Brahman OR He will be their master ( very kind of Him)

But saying that Jesus is the only way to YHWH is not fair to the rest of the Universe
On the other hand it is OK if YHWH is really what the OP says -- a very specific Deity for the middle-east and Mediterranean.

If YHWH is Brahman, Jesus cannot be the only begotten son unless He is the One who came before Him, nor can the trinity possibly ask people on the other side of the world to "nullify" their Devas.
That is because the Trinity would KNOW : the One that others worship as El or VishNu or Brahman or whoever, is the same Brahman!

Do you see the [man-made?] contradiction? Good News: Jesus did NOT ask me to nullify Dev

How can God of Israel be the Universal God unless He is actually a form taken by Brahman? So that circles back to point 1. above. I am happy if that is the case.

----

Also, people argue : There can be only one truth. So we cannot have competing Creator gods.

Yes we can. This is how: Each of the gods claiming to be Creator are either the exact same god, OR they are forms of the same Highest Principle , of the Absolute Truth , that KNOW they are Brahman,

Therefore they are in a position to say I am Brahman and not only this , I am Ishvar, I have created the world.
Whether directly or indirectly, by primary secondary (visarga) and tertiary delegation, they created the world.

So Adi Shakti Devi is creator, VishNu is creator, Shiva is creator, BramhA is creator, YHWH is creator. Allah is creator (assuming He is really really pure Brahman).
El as a proper noun is Creator
El as a common noun is Creator

and/or

They are really the same One which I hope is the case. Time to subtract the dogma now.

I think that you are saying that f there is one all-powerful God, that doesn't preclude the idea that there could be lesser Gods.

If the strongest God is jealous, it might make sense that theists would not want to heed the lesser Gods for fear of retribution. They might even start to deny their existence.

You mentioned that Devi includes the lesser Gods.

Is it possible that a strong God could defeat the lesser Gods?

I wonder if lesser Gods might move away, to a different part of the world, and become the dominant God of a smaller group of people? That might explain a tropical pacific island with a volcano God.

Baroodi · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
Never in my wildest imagination when I was a Christian would I have believed that Jesus' Father, Yahweh actually originated in the Canaanite lands in pre-Israel times. That would make Yahweh a pagan god which the ancient Hebrews apparently adopted as their god. More shocking, Yahweh had a wife/consort named Asherah which would make Asherah Jesus' mom.

"Initially [Yahweh] seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief."

Yahweh <<<<link

So it turns out the early Hebrews were part of the Canaanite culture, although Genesis claims Abraham their patriarch came from the Sumerian city of Ur. And when they broke away from the Canaanites they adopted Yahweh as their chief war god although Yahweh originally was a lesser god from a pantheon of Canaanite gods including their chief god, El and Baal, Asherah and Astarte.

Moreover, Yahweh had a wife. She was worshiped alongside Yahweh. The Old Testament mentions her several times. It wasn't until the Babylonian captivity that Yahweh basically "divorced" her in the sense that the Jews became monotheistic at that point.

"God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshipped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar. She bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess."

Did God have a wife? Scholar says that he did <<<<link

Did God Have a Wife? - Wikipedia <<<<link

I'm curious to hear what Christians here think about their god originally being a pagan god and having a wife who, if we are to believe the strong scholarship supporting this, was the one who gave birth to Jesus. So Jesus wasn't begotten, he was a product of celestial sex.

74x12 · Jan 30, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
When a Christian claims "there is no proof" that almost always means that there is a disturbing amount of evidence that they cannot deal with. Fundamentalists make the error of turning the Bible into a false idol.

I don't see the evidence through the anti-Bible lenses of your mislabeled "non-biased" secular scholars. The archeological evidence supports what I've already believed.

Secular scholars can keep theorizing all day for all I care. They'll be buried with their own theories. They'll be the next archeological site. So let the dead bury the dead.

Clara Tea · Jan 30, 2021

Audie said:
We've seen this before, variously arguing
against the world scientific community
on such as the six day poof, flood, evolution.

In all such fields as physics, geology,
Biology, scientists are simply wrong
to the core or at worst, minions of Satan.

Special Relativity shows that traveling close to the speed of light would slow time. General Relativity shows that in a powerful gravitational field, time slows. So, God's time is not our time. That is, theists believe that the universe is 6,000 years old, and scientists believe that the universe is 13.8 billion years old, but both could be right. Time in one place is not necessarily the same time in another place. Time is not absolute.

It would be interesting to assume that God was near the big bang when it occurred, and was in a powerful gravitational field. With that assumption, it should be possible to calculate how powerful the gravity was, and that could tell us how close God was to the big bang.

Clara Tea · Jan 30, 2021

74x12 said:
I don't see the evidence through the anti-Bible lenses of your mislabeled "non-biased" secular scholars. The archeological evidence supports what I've already believed.

Secular scholars can keep theorizing all day for all I care. They'll be buried with their own theories. They'll be the next archeological site. So let the dead bury the dead.

While it is true that all scientific theories are absolutely true, they are the best ideas that we have to date. Scientists are always aware that theories could be altered.

Subduction Zone · Jan 30, 2021

Clara Tea said:
1. Upsetting to be called ignorant.

2. Upsetting to be told that your Gods are false and Pagan. But are they true Gods? Is our God false? If they had their Gods first, then Jews copied their Gods, how could the God of the Jews be a true God? Christians and Muslims are some form of Jews (since the Christian and Muslim religions came from the Jewish religion). How can the Christian and Muslim religion have a true God if that God is the same God as the Jewish God, and that Jewish God might not be the true God?

I prefer not to insult people and call them ignorant because they believe something different that I do. I prefer not to insult others by telling them that their God is Pagan whereas my God is real.

Please note that those that try to keep themselves uneducated were calling people that brought up these articles uneducated. first. I know that it is uncomfortable to learn certain facts about one's "family" but hiding one's head in the sand is not an answer. Christians should welcome this news. The Old Testament is full of examples of God being evil or incompetent. One can still believe in Jesus as a savior and toss most of the Old Testament. One need not worry that slavery and genocide was endorsed in the Old Testament. One can concentrate on the teachings of Jesus instead of worrying about all of the problems of the Old Testament.

Clara Tea · Jan 30, 2021

SeekingAllTruth said:
ah·weh
/ˈyäˌwā/

Learn to pronounce

noun
noun: Yahweh; noun: Yahveh

a form of the Hebrew name of God used in the Bible. The name came to be regarded by Jewish people ( c. 300 BC) as too sacred to be spoken, and the vowel sounds are uncertain.

Origin

from Hebrew YHWH with added vowels; compare with Jehovah. See also Tetragrammaton.
Translate yahweh to
Use over time for: Yahweh

Definitions from Oxford Languages

I wonder if the phrase "oy vey" is related?

Subduction Zone · Jan 30, 2021

74x12 said:
I don't see the evidence through the anti-Bible lenses of your mislabeled "non-biased" secular scholars. The archeological evidence supports what I've already believed.

Secular scholars can keep theorizing all day for all I care. They'll be buried with their own theories. They'll be the next archeological site. So let the dead bury the dead.

That is because you refuse to learn what is and what is not evidence. The rules for archeological evidence will be similar to those for scientific evidence. When a Bible believer says "there is no evidence" it does not mean that there is no evidence. Nor does it mean that they are lying. In most cases they simply do not understand the concept of evidence.

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