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An interesting question about belief -- God and Vaccines

Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I don't see the connection. Unless maybe some religious are more skeptical than non-religious. I notice living here age is a factor in who trusts the vaccine and who doesn't. No doctor would say take a vaccine, drug, or treatment without talking to one's doctor first. I'd have to see a source, though.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...
Not at all.

  • there are many people, who are not religious believers by your say-so (obviously there is more religious believers because there are much fewer atheists, who do not believe the vaccines are safe and effective (especially the Covid ones)
  • I have heard of quite a few nurses who believe they are not safe (certainly we have heard many adverse reactions - speaking of Covid)
  • And there are many believers (I have had vaccines) who believe they are effective and safe (in most cases).

So, what is your point?
 
robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...
Here's one for you Evangelicalhumanist,

A lot of the people who know the Bible the best are atheists. Maybe you should read it?
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
robocop (actually) said:
Here's one for you Evangelicalhumanist,

A lot of the people who know the Bible the best are atheists. Maybe you should read it?
Click to expand...
I have. Three times through from beginning to end, and still have one by my workstation every day. Reading the Bible -- and contrasting it with the reality that I see -- is one of the principle reasons that I am an atheist. I believe it is the same for Bart D. Ehrman, who is a Biblical scholar with strong facility in both Hebrew and Greek -- and who has a Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary. And who, have once been a born-again, fundamentalist, moved finally to agnostic atheism BECAUSE he studied the Bible with such great care.
 
robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I have. Three times through from beginning to end, and still have one by my workstation every day. Reading the Bible -- and contrasting it with the reality that I see -- is one of the principle reasons that I am an atheist. I believe it is the same for Bart D. Ehrman, who is a Biblical scholar with strong facility in both Hebrew and Greek -- and who has a Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary. And who, have once been a born-again, fundamentalist, moved finally to agnostic atheism BECAUSE he studied the Bible with such great care.
Click to expand...
Great! Then you are accountable.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...
IMO, it speaks to the notion that nobody believes in only one bad idea.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...
well.....you don't believe in a spiritual life
so you default to this one

not odd......
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Thief said:
well.....you don't believe in a spiritual life
so you default to this one

not odd......
Click to expand...
Now you do not know that in the least. I have, in fact, written an entire post (quite long, and some time ago, which I can't be bothered searching for right now) about what "spirituality" might mean to an atheist. I have talked about the the fact that I understand that there is "more than just me," and that I am "a part of something much more."

What I don't believe in is a spiritual life that goes on past this one. Once again, there's no evidence. Nobody has ever produced an "out-of-body" spirit (in spite of thousands of claims by people with bizarrre hair-styles). Nobody has ever produced a ghost, or show the tiniest hint that when the human body dies, some essential -- recognizable -- part of that human carries on.

There is a nice little book (and it is short, so an easy read), called "The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality," by a leading, contemporary French philosopher, André Comte-Sponville. You might have a look, if you're interested.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Now you do not know that in the least. I have, in fact, written an entire post (quite long, and some time ago, which I can't be bothered searching for right now) about what "spirituality" might mean to an atheist. I have talked about the the fact that I understand that there is "more than just me," and that I am "a part of something much more."

What I don't believe in is a spiritual life that goes on past this one. Once again, there's no evidence. Nobody has ever produced an "out-of-body" spirit (in spite of thousands of claims by people with bizarrre hair-styles). Nobody has ever produced a ghost, or show the tiniest hint that when the human body dies, some essential -- recognizable -- part of that human carries on.

There is a nice little book (and it is short, so an easy read), called "The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality," by a leading, contemporary French philosopher, André Comte-Sponville. You might have a look, if you're interested.
Click to expand...
that you have a spirit.....fine.....good

that you don't believe in continuance.....
reduces the presence of Man to a mystery
with no resolve
no purpose
and extinction pending

there's no point in generating billions of copies of a learning device
only have each and ALL copies end in dust

no one survives the last breath?
not one chance in billions?
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...
I believe in vaccines just not what they put in some of them. Nanotech, cells from aborted fetuses etc. Junk that doesn't belong in my body. I'm not saying all the 173 vaccines being developed for covid are like this ...
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Thief said:
that you have a spirit.....fine.....good

that you don't believe in continuance.....
reduces the presence of Man to a mystery
with no resolve
no purpose
and extinction pending

there's no point in generating billions of copies of a learning device
only have each and ALL copies end in dust

no one survives the last breath?
not one chance in billions?
Click to expand...
Well, see, there's your problem --- "there's no point in generating ...|"

You, like most people, find it very, very difficult (well, impossible, actually) to suppose that there is no conscious purpose behind the creation of "us." That's one of those places that I left that path, because if I did once suppose there might be such a purpose, I then had to try to figure out what the purpose was for all the horrible, fearful ways in which we could die. If there was a purpose fo cattle (to feed us), then there had to be a purpose for cow-pox and mad cow disease.

When you start running into the endless contradictions that arise from presupposing a purpose to creation -- if you really, truly follow it through -- I cannot see how you can avoid all those contradictions.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Well, see, there's your problem --- "there's no point in generating ...|"

You, like most people, find it very, very difficult (well, impossible, actually) to suppose that there is no conscious purpose behind the creation of "us." That's one of those places that I left that path, because if I did once suppose there might be such a purpose, I then had to try to figure out what the purpose was for all the horrible, fearful ways in which we could die. If there was a purpose fo cattle (to feed us), then there had to be a purpose for cow-pox and mad cow disease.

When you start running into the endless contradictions that arise from presupposing a purpose to creation -- if you really, truly follow it through -- I cannot see how you can avoid all those contradictions.
Click to expand...
there is no contradiction

the body exposes your spirit to this reality
it does nothing else...

learning is why we are here
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...

Extremely odd. A few comments:

a) "religious believers" are not a monolith, so I'd be curious if there are surveys demonstrating a trend or if this observation is anecdotal,

b) if there is a distinction in the trend, if it exists, between different varieties of "religious believers," and

c) non-theists frequently assert that non-theism implies no positive beliefs, only a lack of one. A strong correlation between belief in vaccine efficacy/safety/etc. and non-theism would seem to contradict that idea, in a very specific way, possibly indicative of a larger web of interrelated beliefs that in fact are implied or likely given someone identifies as an atheist.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...
Not odd at all. It is all about what or who you chose to be authoritative. Believers chose their holy scripture, non believers, lacking any holy scripture, chose reality (and science as an advocate for reality).
 
Samael_Khan

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...

Well, if one comes to the conclusion that there is a grand conspiracy against an invisible god lead by an invisible spirit being named Satan to lead everybody away from said god, then just think of how little evidence they need to believe anything.

Funnily enough, I became a Christian as a result of investigating conspiracy theories. :facepalm:
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...

Probably about being overly credulous. If you have a tendency to accept fantastical stories (religions), then it's more likely that you'll accept misinformation and conspiracy theories about the vaccines.
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...
Is it even true, though?

From what I have read, it seems most of the people who distrust the vaccine seem to do so for reasons that are nothing to do with religion. The most common one I have encountered is that the vaccines have been developed "too fast" and they would rather let others try them before they do.
 
Last edited:
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...

Yes, certain correlations of seemingly unrelated beliefs with religious beliefs are quite... interesting.

Like how your average Trump loyalist will likely be religious and how being an atheist makes you a lot more likely to consider Trump a joke, an embarrassment and a danger to democracy.

Same idd goes with vaccines. Or the pandemic itself, for that matter. Those people who think it's a giant conspiracy and that covid19 doesn't even exist, are also likely very religious.

Anti-vaccers and people who think it's a scheme by bill gates = likely religious believers.

I guess it all relates to how bible-belt style religious cultures, include deeply rooted anti-science rhetoric. And such rhetoric tends to go hand in hand with conspiracy theories. Then we have Trump style people who cater to such people by telling them what they want to hear.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
If you think that you can do this as in reality with science https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_12
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
Click to expand...

It is odd that you don't give evidence!
 
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