is the Abrahamic God, the real God?

nPeace said:

Since you stated that as a fact and not according to your opinion Trailblazer, where do I find that?
Would it only be in Bahaullah's writings?

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You would find it in Baha'u'llah's writings but you would also find it elsewhere, as evidenced by the fact that there are non-Baha'is who share my opinions.

Where do you find what you believe, that the Christian God is the only true God?

Saint Frankenstein said:

Many of us wish to be destroyed from existence, so what should anyone be afraid of from your god?

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According to the standard version of the Christian God you won't be destroyed, but rather you have to be afraid of living forever in a place called hell.

Thankfully that Christian God does not exist, but unfortunately for you, if you do not want to live forever, I don't know of a God who will accommodate that wish... Although there are some Christians who believe that those who are not saved will cease to exist, that is not going to be the case because the soul is eternal, so it cannot die. Moreover, good people like you do not get destroyed simply because they reject the Christian God. I believe that good people who suffer the most, through no fault of their own, go to heaven straightaway, with no stopovers, regardless of their religious beliefs.

Trailblazer said:

You would find it in Baha'u'llah's writings but you would also find it elsewhere, as evidenced by the fact that there are non-Baha'is who share my opinions.

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Elsewhere, such as where? You mean other books but the Bible, I am sure.
Exodus 20:4-6
4 You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion...







Worshipping Idols Excludes the God of the Hebrew patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Israel.

Jesus said as much. He said to a Samaritan woman... directly, "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:22-24)


Was Jehovah the God of the religions of the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. (Exodus 34:11-16)
Certainly not, as clearly stated and shown in the Holy Scriptures, of which Moses and the prophets wrote, and where we find Jesus' saying, and acts of exclusive devotion to his God Jehovah.

Do you believe in the writings of these prophets, or don't you?
If you say you do, how can you claim that God is the God of all religions? Perhaps your use of the term God, applies to something other than the God of Abraham and his seed.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Trailblazer said:

Where do you find what you believe, that the Christian God is the only true God?

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Who is the Christian God?
Is it the God that Jesus taught of, or the God that people worship today and claim is Jesus?

I worship Jehovah, not a trinity god.
Jehovah, or as some prefer YHWH is the true God, according to the Hebrew patriarchs, and I believe that, since I believe the Bible to be true.

This is written all over the Bible.
Isaiah 42:8
American Standard Version
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
That's the God Jesus worshipped and talked about.
What god are you thinking of?

nPeace said:

Elsewhere, such as where? You mean other books but the Bible, I am sure.
Exodus 20:4-6
4 You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion...

Worshipping Idols Excludes the God of the Hebrew patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Israel.

Click to expand...

As a Baha'i I agree that we are not supposed to worship idols, but who do you believe is worshiping idols?

nPeace said:

Jesus said as much. He said to a Samaritan woman... directly, "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:22-24)

Was Jehovah the God of the religions of the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. (Exodus 34:11-16)
Certainly not, as clearly stated and shown in the Holy Scriptures, of which Moses and the prophets wrote, and where we find Jesus' saying, and acts of exclusive devotion to his God Jehovah.

Do you believe in the writings of these prophets, or don't you?
If you say you do, how can you claim that God is the God of all religions? Perhaps your use of the term God, applies to something other than the God of Abraham and his seed.

Click to expand...

This is very simple. I believe in the writings of those prophets but I also believe in what was revealed by God after that. When the Bible was written it was written for the people living at that time, and for the length of that dispensation. But God had a Plan and God intended to send more Prophets/Messengers who would reveal more religions in the future because humans were not ready to hear those things back in those days. That is why Jesus said:

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

nPeace said:

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Who is the Christian God?
Is it the God that Jesus taught of, or the God that people worship today and claim is Jesus?

I worship Jehovah, not a trinity god.
Jehovah, or as some prefer YHWH is the true God, according to the Hebrew patriarchs, and I believe that, since I believe the Bible to be true.

This is written all over the Bible.
Isaiah 42:8
American Standard Version
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
That's the God Jesus worshipped and talked about.
What god are you thinking of?

Click to expand...

I agree that is the God Jesus worshipped and talked about, but I do not care by what name God is called. The God you call Jehovah is the one true God of Abraham and all the other Prophets/Messengers. It does not matter that Muslims refer to God as Allah, because they are referring to the same God, the one true God who revealed all the true religions as Baha'u'llah described Him below.

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167

It wasn’t only until I became an “idol worshiper” myself that I realized that people who use the term “idol worshiper” when applying it to Hindus, Buddhists, and even Catholics, don’t know what they’re talking about. Orthodox escape being called “idol worshipers” probably because they “worship” paintings instead of statues. And notice how I write “idol worshipers” and “worship” in quotes to show my disdain for those terms, and their incorrect usage.

The reason I say people who use the term “idol worshiper” don’t know what they’re talking about is because it’s not the statue or painting itself that’s being worshiped. God is being worshiped through the image. You don’t talk to the telephone, you talk through the telephone to the person at the other end. Similarly we are talking to God, not stone, wood or metal, or even a painting. When I was Orthodox my priest called the icons a window into the divine world. In the Bhagavad Gita 12.5 Sri Krishna says “For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifest, the path of realization is full of tribulations. Worship of the unmanifest is exceedingly difficult for embodied beings.”

The commentary on this from Swami Mukundananda is

Why is the worship of the formless [God]* so difficult? The first and foremost reason for this is that we humans possess a form ourselves and we have been habituated to interacting with forms in endless lifetimes. Thus, while striving to love God as well, if our mind has a wonderful enchanting form to meditate upon, it can easily focus upon it and increase its attachment to the Lord. However, in the case of the formless, the intellect cannot conceive of it, and the mind and senses have no tangible object to relate to. So both the endeavors of meditating on God and increasing the mind’s attachment to Him become difficult.

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* The original word is ‘Brahman’. Though not entirely accurate and not entirely incorrect, people refer to Brahman as God.

Moreover, those traditions that [seem to] worship Mary and saints are venerating them, not worshiping them. They’re being given due recognition for their devotion to God. I might further add that those who have a problem with using statues or paintings, venerating saints and criticize others’ beliefs ... it’s none of your business. Get over it. Everyone has their own paths they follow. No one has the right or authority to say “you’re doing it wrong”. Matthew 7:1-2 If you’re a Bible-believer you’ll know what I mean.

So there’s my belief and reasoning and the beliefs of millions of “idol worshipers”.

Trailblazer said:

As a Baha'i I agree that we are not supposed to worship idols, but who do you believe is worshiping idols?

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Exodus 20:4-6
4 You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion...

What do you find unclear about that?

Trailblazer said:

This is very simple. I believe in the writings of those prophets but I also believe in what was revealed by God after that. When the Bible was written it was written for the people living at that time, and for the length of that dispensation. But God had a Plan and God intended to send more Prophets/Messengers who would reveal more religions in the future because humans were not ready to hear those things back in those days. That is why Jesus said:

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I agree that is the God Jesus worshipped and talked about, but I do not care by what name God is called. The God you call Jehovah is the one true God of Abraham and all the other Prophets/Messengers. It does not matter that Muslims refer to God as Allah, because they are referring to the same God, the one true God who revealed all the true religions as Baha'u'llah described Him below.

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167

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This seems to me a way in which one can conveniently decide what they will accept, or dismiss.
True, God's purpose is progressive, but it seems to me, there must be a unifying, rather than the opposite.
Evidently though, false prophets can claim to be God's spokesmen, and claim that their writings are of God.
There must be a way to tell the difference and identify the truth from the lie.
Waiting until the end would be too late.
Don't you agree?

nPeace said:

Exodus 20:4-6
4 You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion...

What do you find unclear about that?

Click to expand...

Nothing is unclear. It is very clear and I agree wholeheartedly.

nPeace said:

This seems to me a way in which one can conveniently decide what they will accept, or dismiss.
True, God's purpose is progressive, but it seems to me, there must be a unifying, rather than the opposite.
Evidently though, false prophets can claim to be God's spokesmen, and claim that their writings are of God.
There must be a way to tell the difference and identify the truth from the lie.
Waiting until the end would be too late.
Don't you agree?

Click to expand...

Again, I agree that God's purpose is progressive and there must be a unifying, rather than the opposite.

Jesus told us how we can tell the difference between a true prophet and a false prophet.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: FRUIT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Jainarayan said:

It wasn’t only until I became an “idol worshiper” myself that I realized that people who use the term “idol worshiper” when applying it to Hindus, Buddhists, and even Catholics, don’t know what they’re talking about. Orthodox escape being called “idol worshipers” probably because they “worship” paintings instead of statues. And notice how I write “idol worshipers” and “worship” in quotes to show my disdain for those terms, and their incorrect usage.

The reason I say people who use the term “idol worshiper” don’t know what they’re talking about is because it’s not the statue or painting itself that’s being worshiped. God is being worshiped through the image. You don’t talk to the telephone, you talk through the telephone to the person at the other end. Similarly we are talking to God, not stone, wood or metal, or even a painting. When I was Orthodox my priest called the icons a window into the divine world. In the Bhagavad Gita 12.5 Sri Krishna says “For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifest, the path of realization is full of tribulations. Worship of the unmanifest is exceedingly difficult for embodied beings.”

The commentary on this from Swami Mukundananda is

* The original word is ‘Brahman’. Though not entirely accurate and not entirely incorrect, people refer to Brahman as God.

Moreover, those traditions that [seem to] worship Mary and saints are venerating them, not worshiping them. They’re being given due recognition for their devotion to God. I might further add that those who have a problem with using statues or paintings, venerating saints and criticize others’ beliefs ... it’s none of your business. Get over it. Everyone has their own paths they follow. No one has the right or authority to say “you’re doing it wrong”. Matthew 7:1-2 If you’re a Bible-believer you’ll know what I mean.

So there’s my belief and reasoning and the beliefs of millions of “idol worshipers”.

Click to expand...

It is evident to me that those persons know what they are talking about. Since they use the scriptures to demonstrate it, rather than their own self directed ideas.

After using Exodus 20, along with other scriptures where all the idols on the high places, were to be pulled down, and crushed to powder; Seeing the way Babylonian kings used their images as a way for the people to worship...
(Daniel 3:1-11) . . .Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold that was 60 cubits high and 6 cubits wide. He set it up on the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon. 2 Then King Nebuchadnezzar sent word to assemble the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates, and all the administrators of the provinces to come to the inauguration of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. 3 So the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates, and all the administrators of the provinces assembled for the inauguration of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. And they stood in front of the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. 4 The herald loudly proclaimed: “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and language groups, 5 that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, zither, triangular harp, stringed instrument, bagpipe, and all the other musical instruments, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.” 7 So when all the peoples heard the sound of the horn, pipe, zither, triangular harp, stringed instrument, and all the other musical instruments, all the peoples, nations, and language groups fell down and worshipped the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. 8 Now at that time some of the Chaldeans came forward and accused the Jews. 9 They said to King Nebuchadnezzar: “O king, may you live on forever. 10 You, O king, gave the command that every man who hears the sound of the horn, pipe, zither, triangular harp, stringed instrument, bagpipe, and all the other musical instruments should fall down and worship the image of gold; 11 and that whoever would not fall down and worship should be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.

They cap that off with Jesus' words at Matthew 4:23, 24, which shows that one must worship in spirit and truth, not through a physical "god".

Trailblazer said:

Nothing is unclear. It is very clear and I agree wholeheartedly.

Again, I agree that God's purpose is progressive and there must be a unifying, rather than the opposite.

Jesus told us how we can tell the difference between a true prophet and a false prophet.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: FRUIT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

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We agree on the scripture you cited. However, fruit is not limited to success.
(John 15:8) My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. . .
(John 15:2) He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit. . .
(2 Peter 1:8) For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

nPeace said:

We agree on the scripture you cited. However, fruit is not limited to success.
(John 15:8) My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. . .
(John 15:2) He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit. . .
(2 Peter 1:8) For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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Yes, I agree, fruit is not limited to success. That was just the dictionary definition of fruits that I grabbed off the internet. Below is a better definition.

Jesus states that one will be able to identify false prophets by their fruits. False prophets will not produce good fruits. Fruits, which are a common metaphor in both the Old and New Testaments, represent the outward manifestation of a person's faith, thus their behaviour and their works.

Matthew 7:16 - Wikipedia

Humans are humans first in a science thesis.

What science...human invented lied about.

A human defines what he wants to believe.

Science was our anti cause.

To be forced to become changed. What natural never supported. The effects of science forcing unnatural change.

A human was living surviving.

Our owned natural life form.

That natural status removed when the machine creator pretended he was copying natural.

A human did not invent the presence of creation. Yet he theories that his thinking did.

Natural as a thesis had always evolved into a less destructive form than what it was originally expressing.

Higher human awareness said creation in its past evil. Said where we existed not evil.

He reads a story about evils done to a human life by a human theist scientist.

And then wants to argue today about who in ancient times as a human male told other males as humans that they were wrong about God and science?

Why the stories were told.

Was Abraham right?
Was any other human male right since that sacrificed life attack was discussed?

The story was how a created choice by humans had caused human sacrifice as a natural life as a theme created.
The old stories quote yes science did it.
New stories said yes science did it. The cause. Science expressed as science to denote science caused it.

And science is not natural. It changed natural.

How many times did males quote life on earth changed so I must record and write my message so that humans stop choosing scientific destruction!

I wrote evidence.

When gases got put back into space body by wandering stars releasing their stone body. Human life improved. I expressed a higher spiritual human living loving statement.

Proof I had removed it from my human life by science history.

My study using science data said so.