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Christian - Baptism

Baerly

Active Member
The bible says the following to help us understand that water baptism is the line of demarkation between those in the world and the saved.

From lost ----Baptized -----then Saved (1Peter 3:21)
From Naked--Baptized------then clothed (Gal.3:27)
From unforgiven ---Baptized ---then Forgiven (Acts 2:38)
From in world ------Baptized----Then in the church (or kingdom) (John 3:5)
From Dead----------Baptized-----To new life (Rom.6:4)
From guilty conscience ---Baptized--- to be near to God (Heb.10:22)
From Disobedient----------Baptized ---to be Saved/renewed (Titus 3:5).

Baptized above is refering to water baptism (Acts 8:38)

Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
Dentonz said:
The only baptism that saves is being washed in the blood of Jesus. You can be immersed in water 10,000 times and be lost unless you have turned from your sin and allowed Jesus to immerse you in the fountain that flows from the cross. The Bible clearly states that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

I believe fully that everyone should be baptized in water as a public confession of faith, however it is only through the blood of Jesus that we can be washed (baptized) clean of our sins.

The point of (Romans 6:4) is that this is the point to which we access the blood of Jesus. Notice it says "We are buried with him by baptism into his death:That like Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father,even so we should walk in newness of life".
1. We are buried with Jesus - Here we find the first time the bible says we are with Jesus and it is not until a person is baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38).
2. We are baptized into his death - this is where we contact the blood of Jesus. It was during his death that his blood was spilled. The bible says we are baptized into that death.
3. Notice after water baptism,then we walk in NEWNESS of life.
4. This is explaining when we get washed in the blood of Jesus and it harmonizes with (Acts 2:38) (Acts 22:16) (1Peter 3:21) (Titus 3:5) (COl.2:12) (Acts 3:19).
5. It also harmonizes with (2Cor.5:17) and Gal.3:27) after we are BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST by water baptism were NEW CREATURES.

It all fits like a glove. -- Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
sojourner said:
So...Jesus was lost spiritually before his baptism?


Who was Christ baptized into? Himself? Was Christ "out of himself" before his baptism? Was Jesus' salvation found in himself?


How could Jesus wash away what was not there? What was Christ a citizen of before his baptism? What if he had refused? Would God admit Christ to heaven, if he had refused John's baptism?

If the dynamic of baptism is as you say, none of these statements make sense. Did Jesus "need" baptism in this way? Then neither do we.
My friend Jesus was not baptized for the same reason we were. The bible says Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness (Mt.3:15). He had no sin. It was also the time for Jeus to receive the Spirit of God. It ascended upon him like a dove (Mt.3:16). If you want to argue that baptism is not essential to have sins forgiven you best argue with Jesus,because he is the one who said BEL. + BAPT. = Salvation (Mark 16:16). I did not say it Jesus said it. Your problem is with Jesus and his teachings (Mt.28:18-20).
 

Baerly

Active Member
sojourner said:
Actually, Noah was saved from the water.
I thought we were saved by the Spirit.

My friend, Noah was saved BY WATER according to (1Peter 3:20). At least that is what the (KJV) says. I guess at this point you have a problem with Peter and Jesus both.

Most of the time the problem is not with translations,but with the attitude of the individuals heart (2Thess.2:10-12) or (Acts 2:41) (Acts 13:46) (Gal.1:16).

WE are saved by many things Hope,Works,Blood of Jesus,The Law,and many other things according to the bible,BUT we are not saved by any one thing. Water baptism alone does not save,BUT when one accepts all the commandments of God and then obeys them,He becomes a saved individual (Mt.28:18-20). From that point forward as long as he walks in the light (according to the commadments of the Lord) he is saved (1John 1:7) (Eph.5:8) (1Thess.4:1).

If a person does not walk in the light they end up in a position like that of Simon in (Acts 8:20). He was told he would perish if he did not repent and he was a babe in Christ according to (Acts 8:12,13). So it sounds like to me that we are saved by many things. - Baerly
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Baerly said:
My friend Jesus was not baptized for the same reason we were. The bible says Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness (Mt.3:15). He had no sin. It was also the time for Jeus to receive the Spirit of God. It ascended upon him like a dove (Mt.3:16). If you want to argue that baptism is not essential to have sins forgiven you best argue with Jesus,because he is the one who said BEL. + BAPT. = Salvation (Mark 16:16). I did not say it Jesus said it. Your problem is with Jesus and his teachings (Mt.28:18-20).

My *problem* is with your interpretation of Jesus' teachings. I don't have a *problem* with Jesus, or his teachings.

In fact, John's baptism was a baptism for remission of sin. That's what the Bible says. It stands to reason, then, that if Jesus participated in John's baptism, he participated knowing that it was a baptism for remission of sin. Why would he have done that if he perceived no need for it?

The concept of sin is not a personal thing, rather, it's endemic to humanity, as a whole. Since Jesus was fully human, he was subject to human sin, even though he did not add to human sin. His participation in John's baptism was to do his part in fulfilling the righteousness of all humanity, which comes through grace, not through water.

Did Jesus say that baptism was necessary?

In fact, Mk. 16:16 is not included in the best early manuscripts of that gospel. It ends with vs. 8. However, in the appended "Longer Ending of Mark," vs. 16 says, "Whoever trusts and is baptized will be saved. The one who lacks trust will be condemned." Nothing about lack of baptism causing condemnation.

Matt. 28:18-20 is an instruction to the Church, not to individuals. It says, (vs. 19) "You are to go and make followers of all peoples. You are to baptize them in the name of the Father and the son and the holy spirit." Again, nothing about condemnation for those who are not baptized. It seems as though this interpretation would infer that this sort of baptism is not for remission of sin, but for initiation into the Church.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Baerly said:
My friend, Noah was saved BY WATER according to (1Peter 3:20). At least that is what the (KJV) says. I guess at this point you have a problem with Peter and Jesus both.

Most of the time the problem is not with translations,but with the attitude of the individuals heart (2Thess.2:10-12) or (Acts 2:41) (Acts 13:46) (Gal.1:16).

WE are saved by many things Hope,Works,Blood of Jesus,The Law,and many other things according to the bible,BUT we are not saved by any one thing. Water baptism alone does not save,BUT when one accepts all the commandments of God and then obeys them,He becomes a saved individual (Mt.28:18-20). From that point forward as long as he walks in the light (according to the commadments of the Lord) he is saved (1John 1:7) (Eph.5:8) (1Thess.4:1).

If a person does not walk in the light they end up in a position like that of Simon in (Acts 8:20). He was told he would perish if he did not repent and he was a babe in Christ according to (Acts 8:12,13). So it sounds like to me that we are saved by many things. - Baerly

This is an argument of semantics. Considering the story of Noah, from a purely OT perspective, Noah was saved from the water. The NT writer puts a fresh spin on the story and offers an interpretation from a different perspective. While he chooses to see the story of Noah as an archetype for baptismal salvation, which is a valid perspective (and one I happen to share), in the story itself Noah is saved from the water.

I don't have a *problem* with Peter, either. Why do you find it necessary to think that I have a *problem* with anything other than your interpretation?

See your comments in red above:
This is a very conditional view of salvation and (I believe) inconsistent with the gospel message. But then, I tend to be a universalist. I just don't believe that God leaves our salvation to whether we are able to "be good enough." There's just no grace, as we understand grace, to be found in your statement.

It seems to me (and this is my own opinion) that we are saved by one thing: The grace of Christ, effected in us by his incarnation as one of us.
 

writer

Active Member
181 The bible says the following to help us understand that water baptism is the line of demarkation between those in the world and the saved.
That's certain. Although, as previous posters have mentioned, faith is intrinsically.
As faith is the source of genuine water baptism, and faith in the lambs' blood demarked the Jews in Egypt in Exodus 12 even before their water baptism in Exodus 14

From lost ----Baptized -----then Saved (1Peter 3:21)
Saved from the world, 1 P 3:21, which the water in Noah's generation destroyed; not from hell

From Naked--Baptized------then clothed (Gal.3:27)
Putting on the Lord Jesus Christ is in baptism, Gal 3:27.
And's also day by day afterwards, Rm 13:14

From unforgiven ---Baptized ---then Forgiven (Acts 2:38)
Since Peter in Acts 10 says that "everyone who believes into Christ Jesus will receive forgiveness of sins," and "Can anyone forbid water so that these would not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit even as we?" 43, 47;
to state that there isn't forgiveness until baptism is to arbitrarily, and counterscripturally, invent a false-legalism that duzn't exist in the NT.
As Catholicism and CoC evilly do.
Which also, with the rest of Scripture (since Ac 2:38 duzn't exist in a void or alone), helps to interpret 2:38 (and 22:16 if need be) to show that the baptism of the repentant, believing, crucifiers of Christ (2:23, 38) and of the infamous killer of His members (7:58; 8:1, 3; 9:1-2, 4-5, 13-14; 22:4-5, 8, 16, 19-20; 26:9-12; 1 Cor 15:9; Gal 1:13, 23),
in particular was for their forgiveness, not only before God, but before men, as a visible testimony of their absoolute and 180 degree turn

182 The point of (Romans 6:4) is that this is the point to which we access the blood of Jesus.
The point of Romans 6:4 is absolutely not that baptism is the point in which we access the blood of Jesus. This is also a demonic legalism of Catholicism and CoC, which, in essence, pretends and purports to restrict the unrestricted blood of the limitless Sacrifice and limitless Forgiver's unlimited forgiveness, based on whoever takes Him (Ac 10:43; Rm 3:21-28; 4:10-11).
There is no mention of "blood" in all of Romans 6. Much less 6:4.
Rm 3 and 4 precede, both chronologically, and Scripturally, and thematically, Rm 6.
Circumcision is related to baptism, Col 2:11-12; Rm 6:4, in that Christ's death is the genuine cutting off of flesh in the universe. Interestingly, Paul, in Romans 3 and 4, makes the point of saying that Abraham was justified by God thru faith, and that his saving faith was specifically, unequivocally, and deliberately experienced by Abraham before Abraham was circumcised. While he was still "in uncircumcision," Rm 4:10

We are buried with Jesus - Here we find the first time the bible says we are with Jesus
To the contrary: Saul of Tarsus was with Jesus from the second Jesus was with Him, on the road to Damascus, before he was baptized. As also whoever called on the Lord Jesus, in Acts 2:21, was with the Lord, by calling, in faith, before the second they were baptized in Acts 2:38. Just like the Spirit of Jesus was with Cornelius' and his friends and household in Acts 10 before Cornelius and they were baptized in Acts 10.
Indeed, the reason Peter gives for not withholding baptism to Cornelius and friends is BECUZ they had received the same one Spirit of God and Christ which Peter the apostle had.
The examples are too numerous to list here

and it is not until a person is baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38).
This flat, and insulting, falsehood, Biblically-speaking, iz addressed above

It all fits like a glove. -- Baerly
To the contrary: CoC teaching in this regard is absolutely transparently inaccurate and contrived

181 From Disobedient----------Baptized ---to be Saved/renewed (Titus 3:5)
Unlike Catholicism's and CoC's mistake regarding this verse:
Titus 3:5, indeed Paul's entire letter to Titus, mentions nothing of baptism, and nothing of baptism directly. The "washing" in 5 is "of," hence "is" regeneration. Which isn't the same Greek word as "born anew" in John 3 or "regeneration" in 1 P 1:23.
Although of course it's dependent on that regeneration.
Here it means a dispositional remaking. In the image of Christ. By Christ. Becuz of Christ in you.
Regeneration in John 3 includes baptism, but it is not water, or baptism, alone. Nor is there no regeneration until baptism. It's much like human birth involves both conception, and delivery (Mt 1:20; Lk 2:6-7). Conception isn't dependent on, nor nonexistent until, delivery.
Ask any pregnant mom
 

Baerly

Active Member
sojourner said:
The concept of sin is not a personal thing, rather, it's endemic to humanity, as a whole. Since Jesus was fully human, he was subject to human sin, even though he did not add to human sin. His participation in John's baptism was to do his part in fulfilling the righteousness of all humanity, which comes through grace, not through water.

Did Jesus say that baptism was necessary?

In fact, Mk. 16:16 is not included in the best early manuscripts of that gospel. It ends with vs. 8. However, in the appended "Longer Ending of Mark," vs. 16 says, "Whoever trusts and is baptized will be saved. The one who lacks trust will be condemned." Nothing about lack of baptism causing condemnation.

Matt. 28:18-20 is an instruction to the Church, not to individuals. It says, (vs. 19) "You are to go and make followers of all peoples. You are to baptize them in the name of the Father and the son and the holy spirit." Again, nothing about condemnation for those who are not baptized. It seems as though this interpretation would infer that this sort of baptism is not for remission of sin, but for initiation into the Church.

My friend If sin is not a personal matter, Why does the bible say, The soul that sinneth (it) shall die (Ezekiel 18:20). That sounds personal to me.

You said grace does not come through water. Then are you saying that baptism does not save? Because the bible says baptism doth now also save us (1Peter 3:21). That is not my interpretation,that is what the word of God says

The word AND in (Mark 16:16) tells us of the neccessity of water baptism. I think it is called a coordinating conjunction.

(Mt 28:18-20) Tells us (the church) (each person) to go about teaching All things whatsoever I have commanded. That would include baptism for the forgiveness of sins according to (Acts 2:38 ; 22:16). (2Tim.2:2) is tellling us about the same thing as (Mt.28:20).

in love Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
sojourner said:
This is an argument of semantics. Considering the story of Noah, from a purely OT perspective, Noah was saved from the water. The NT writer puts a fresh spin on the story and offers an interpretation from a different perspective. While he chooses to see the story of Noah as an archetype for baptismal salvation, which is a valid perspective (and one I happen to share), in the story itself Noah is saved from the water.

I don't have a *problem* with Peter, either. Why do you find it necessary to think that I have a *problem* with anything other than your interpretation?

See your comments in red above:
This is a very conditional view of salvation and (I believe) inconsistent with the gospel message. But then, I tend to be a universalist. I just don't believe that God leaves our salvation to whether we are able to "be good enough." There's just no grace, as we understand grace, to be found in your statement.

It seems to me (and this is my own opinion) that we are saved by one thing: The grace of Christ, effected in us by his incarnation as one of us.

(Heb.5:8,9) -He is the author of eternal salvation to all them that OBEY.
Seeing you have purified your souls in OBEYING the truth.....

God heareth not siners; but if any man be a worshipper of God,AND DOETH HIS WILL,him he heareth (John 9:31).

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit,whom God hath given them that OBEY HIM (Acts 5:32).

He that feareth him,and worketh righteousness is accepted with him (Acts 10:35).

He that doeth righteousness is righteous (1John 3:7).

Could you show me in the bible where it says we are saved by one thing and one thing ALONE. If the bible does not say such a thing and it is only your opinion,Do you think you can get to heaven on your opinion when the bible teaches otherwise? (John 12:48) He that rejecteth me and receiveth not my words my hath one that judgeth him; THE WORD I HAVE SPOKEN,the same shall judge him in the last day (John 12:48).

Teach no other doctrine (1Tim.1:3).

Now whose interpretation seems to be off here according to the word of God?

in love Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
Writer this is for you:


by Mike Riley
It is not uncommon to hear sincere religious folks speak of being saved by “faith only”. They say, “All you have to do is believe in the Lord Jesus Christ”. Their statement ishttp://www.religiousforums.com/forum/ designed to convey the concept that one is saved at the exact point in time when one believes in Jesus. Those who are proponents of “faith only” salvation need to understand that there is a world of difference between salvation “by faith” and salvation “at the point of believing.” The Bible teaches salvation by faith (John 3:16; Romans 5:1; Acts 16:31-34; Mark 16:16; Romans 4) but it does not teach salvation by faith only. If you doubt that statement, then let’s deal honestly with the following observations:
1) Saul obviously believed while on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:6). However, if Saul was saved “at the point of faith,” then he was saved from his sins while he still had his sins. Note that when Ananias appeared to Saul three days after his encounter with Jesus (Acts 9:9), he told Saul he must do something (cf. Acts 9:6; Acts 22:10), “And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16).
2) On the day of Pentecost, the Jews were convinced that they had murdered the son of God, coming to believe what they had previously denied. Being convinced by Peter’s inspired message, they asked, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). Now, if they were saved at the exact time of belief, there was nothing else for them to do. When Peter answered their question, he told them to do something: “Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins….” (Acts 2:38). The expression “for the remission of sins” means “in order to have sins remitted”. One cannot have sins remitted unless he still has his sins, which proves that their sins were not removed at the point of their faith or belief.
Conclusion
The real difference between those who believe that “faith only” saves and biblical salvation, is the exact point in time sins are forgiven. Since sin is contrary to God’s law (1 John 3:4), it must be God who forgives sin. Therefore, it is God who gives us the answer as to when sins are forgiven. God says that it is at the point of one’s baptism that he is buried with Christ and dies to his old sins (Romans 6:3-7). Furthermore, it is in baptism that one’s sins are remitted (Acts 2:38) and “washed away” (Acts 22:16). It is in baptism that we come into a relationship with Christ (Galatians 3:26-27). And Peter says it is baptism that saves us (1 Peter 3:21). Predicated upon man’s faith and repentance, God regenerates us in baptism so that we are raised to walk in newness of life as a new creation (Titus 3:5; Romans 6:4-5; 2 Corinthians 5:17). This is when God says He forgives us - not before.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, January 11th, 2006 at 8:27 pmand is filed under Faith Only. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
 

Dentonz

Member
Baerly said:
The point of (Romans 6:4) is that this is the point to which we access the blood of Jesus. Notice it says "We are buried with him by baptism into his death:That like Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father,even so we should walk in newness of life".
1. We are buried with Jesus - Here we find the first time the bible says we are with Jesus and it is not until a person is baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38).
2. We are baptized into his death - this is where we contact the blood of Jesus. It was during his death that his blood was spilled. The bible says we are baptized into that death.
3. Notice after water baptism,then we walk in NEWNESS of life.
4. This is explaining when we get washed in the blood of Jesus and it harmonizes with (Acts 2:38) (Acts 22:16) (1Peter 3:21) (Titus 3:5) (COl.2:12) (Acts 3:19).
5. It also harmonizes with (2Cor.5:17) and Gal.3:27) after we are BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST by water baptism were NEW CREATURES.

It all fits like a glove. -- Baerly

OK, how was Paul baptized?
 

Dentonz

Member
Katzpur said:
Why don't you tell us? I wasn't aware that the Bible ever covers his baptism.

Acts 9: 17-19 " And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened..."

It appears that Saul was baptized in his house. We all know that Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River which was common practice for the disciples (to be baptized by immersion in water), however, it appears this is talking about something altogether different. Either he left the house walked to the nearest river and was baptized by Ananias then walked back to the house and ate; or maybe this is referring to a spiritual baptism.

We must understand that the word "baptize" simply mean to be washed. As a Christian, we are baptized by water (unto repentance), blood (for the remission of sins), and fire (for purification unto holiness); all three of which are done by the power of the Holy Ghost. However we demonstrate the baptism of water and blood by being immersed in actual physical water in front of our fellow believers as a confession of faith.
 

Baerly

Active Member
Dentonz said:
OK, how was Paul baptized?
Hi, If we take what the bible says, we learn how to baptize people in (Acts 8:38,39). Here is our example as to HOW to baptize someone in water. The apostle Paul would have been baptized (immersed) in the same manner. All we know is that he was baptized,because he said immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood. In other words he did not have to ask his family or anyone else. He was convinced of truth and he obeyed (Gal.1:16). He did not fight water baptism like so many people do today (Acts 22:16).

in Christian love, Baerly
 

Dentonz

Member
Baerly said:
Hi, If we take what the bible says, we learn how to baptize people in (Acts 8:38,39). Here is our example as to HOW to baptize someone in water. The apostle Paul would have been baptized (immersed) in the same manner. All we know is that he was baptized,because he said immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood. In other words he did not have to ask his family or anyone else. He was convinced of truth and he obeyed (Gal.1:16). He did not fight water baptism like so many people do today (Acts 22:16).

in Christian love, Baerly

Please don't get the misconception that I am 'fighting' against water baptism. Water baptism is very important, Jesus himself was baptized "to fulfill all righteousness" however was not necessary for his salvation but necessary for the fulfillment of his ministry. I'm just trying to clarify that there is nothing we can do physically that saves us. It is only by the grace of God, through the blood of Jesus, by the power of the Holy Ghost that we can be saved. Water in and of itself can do nothing but make your body appear to be clean.

Grace and Peace in Jesus' name,
Denton
 

Baerly

Active Member
Dentonz said:
OK, how was Paul baptized?

Baptized in (Acts 22:16) means to Submerge or overwhelm wholly with fluid. That is exactly what happened in (Acts 8:38,39). They both went down into the water,there was enough water for BOTH of the men to go down into and come up out of it.

Baptizo #907 Strongs Concordance (Baptidzo;from #911)- To make Whelmed (that is fully wet); used only in the New Testament , of cerimonial absolution,espec. (tech..) of the ordinance of Chr. baptism,baptize, wash.

#911 Bapto - To Whelm,i.e. cover wholly with fluid; in the new testament only in a qualified or spec. sense.to moisten part of ones person,or (by impl.) to stain (as with die); - dip.

Dictionary defines - Whelm --,1.Submerge . 2. Overwhelm

When an honest person reads what we find in (Acts 8:38,39) and then reads the full definiton in Strongs Concordance it is clear that baptism means to submerge,cover wholly over with fluid. (Rom.6:4) uses the word BURIED and that is what happened with the Ethiopian eunich in (Acts 8:38,39). When one is discussing his eternity I cannot imagine a situation in which a person would not want to make sure they were covered wholly with fluid like Strongs says. If you carried a dog which died out to a farm and was going to bury it,would you sprinkle it with a hand full of dirt OR would you dig a deep whole and wholly cover the dead dog with dirt fully?

In #911 when you die a shirt a different color you would wholly cover (or dip) the shirt with the new fluid to change the color of the shirt.

In love Baerly
 

Dentonz

Member
Baerly said:
Baptized in (Acts 22:16) means to Submerge or overwhelm wholly with fluid. That is exactly what happened in (Acts 8:38,39). They both went down into the water,there was enough water for BOTH of the men to go down into and come up out of it.

Baptizo #907 Strongs Concordance (Baptidzo;from #911)- To make Whelmed (that is fully wet); used only in the New Testament , of cerimonial absolution,espec. (tech..) of the ordinance of Chr. baptism,baptize, wash.

#911 Bapto - To Whelm,i.e. cover wholly with fluid; in the new testament only in a qualified or spec. sense.to moisten part of ones person,or (by impl.) to stain (as with die); - dip.

Dictionary defines - Whelm --,1.Submerge . 2. Overwhelm

When an honest person reads what we find in (Acts 8:38,39) and then reads the full definiton in Strongs Concordance it is clear that baptism means to submerge,cover wholly over with fluid. (Rom.6:4) uses the word BURIED and that is what happened with the Ethiopian eunich in (Acts 8:38,39). When one is discussing his eternity I cannot imagine a situation in which a person would not want to make sure they were covered wholly with fluid like Strongs says. If you carried a dog which died out to a farm and was going to bury it,would you sprinkle it with a hand full of dirt OR would you dig a deep whole and wholly cover the dead dog with dirt fully?

In #911 when you die a shirt a different color you would wholly cover (or dip) the shirt with the new fluid to change the color of the shirt.

In love Baerly

I agree completely, yes this is how we are to be baptised in water. However the word baptize in the NT is not always refering to this. The disciples in Acts 2 were "baptized" in the Holy Spirit, there were not baptized again in water.
 

Baerly

Active Member
Dentonz said:
I agree completely, yes this is how we are to be baptised in water. However the word baptize in the NT is not always refering to this. The disciples in Acts 2 were "baptized" in the Holy Spirit, there were not baptized again in water.
1. You cannot prove they were not baptized again. Many other things happened which were not written (John 20:30,31). Some were baptized again in (Acts 19:1-5).

2. They could have been baptized by Johns baptism which was for the forgiveness of sins according to (Mark 1:4).

In Christian love, Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
Dentonz said:
Please don't get the misconception that I am 'fighting' against water baptism. Water baptism is very important, Jesus himself was baptized "to fulfill all righteousness" however was not necessary for his salvation but necessary for the fulfillment of his ministry. I'm just trying to clarify that there is nothing we can do physically that saves us. It is only by the grace of God, through the blood of Jesus, by the power of the Holy Ghost that we can be saved. Water in and of itself can do nothing but make your body appear to be clean.

Grace and Peace in Jesus' name,
Denton
1. Are you saying we are saved by grace ALONE? If so give me a scripture which says were saved by GRACE ALONE. I do not think you will find it. Don't get me wrong,I believe we are saved by grace. But the bible says were saved by many things and NOT BY ANY ONE THING. There is Gods part,which is grace / Then there is mans part,which is obedience to the will of God (or obedience to that grace)(Titus 2:11,12).

2. Dentonz said :- I'm just trying to clarify that there is nothing we can do physically that saves us. / Then you said it is ONLY by the grace of God.

Baerly said : If, you had said there is nothing we can do to save ourselves separate and apart from the grace of God, I would agree with you. But that is not what you said. Your position is like many who have fallen into the trap that man cannot do one thing to help himself. That is a false concept. It is not biblical and I hope you and I can look into the bible and see what the word of God says.

My proof that man can do something in conjunction with the grace of God is found in (Acts 2:40). The inspired word of God says two words which proves man has a part in the plan of salvation. Save Yourselves from this untoward generation (Acts 2:40). This is just one of many we could look at, but how many will it take to convince you man has a part in helping to save himself?

Do you believea person must believe in God and Jesus to be saved? If you say yes,then you too believe man has a part in the plan of salvation,because the bible says belief is a work (John 6:29). It is a work that man must do if he wants to be saved. We also see this in (Mark 16:16) - Believe + Baptism = Saved. Now this equation has a very important word in the middle of it, the word AND. That word connects Belief and Baptism. One cannot arrive at the correct solution (Salvation)without agreeing that it takes both for the man to BELIEVE and BE BAPTIZED in water. There is more one must do but those commandments are found in other verses. Just a thought.

In Love Baerly
 

Dentonz

Member
Baerly said:
1. Are you saying we are saved by grace ALONE? If so give me a scripture which says were saved by GRACE ALONE. I do not think you will find it. Don't get me wrong,I believe we are saved by grace. But the bible says were saved by many things and NOT BY ANY ONE THING. There is Gods part,which is grace / Then there is mans part,which is obedience to the will of God (or obedience to that grace)(Titus 2:11,12).

2. Dentonz said :- I'm just trying to clarify that there is nothing we can do physically that saves us. / Then you said it is ONLY by the grace of God.

Baerly said : If, you had said there is nothing we can do to save ourselves separate and apart from the grace of God, I would agree with you. But that is not what you said. Your position is like many who have fallen into the trap that man cannot do one thing to help himself. That is a false concept. It is not biblical and I hope you and I can look into the bible and see what the word of God says.

My proof that man can do something in conjunction with the grace of God is found in (Acts 2:40). The inspired word of God says two words which proves man has a part in the plan of salvation. Save Yourselves from this untoward generation (Acts 2:40). This is just one of many we could look at, but how many will it take to convince you man has a part in helping to save himself?

Do you believea person must believe in God and Jesus to be saved? If you say yes,then you too believe man has a part in the plan of salvation,because the bible says belief is a work (John 6:29). It is a work that man must do if he wants to be saved. We also see this in (Mark 16:16) - Believe + Baptism = Saved. Now this equation has a very important word in the middle of it, the word AND. That word connects Belief and Baptism. One cannot arrive at the correct solution (Salvation)without agreeing that it takes both for the man to BELIEVE and BE BAPTIZED in water. There is more one must do but those commandments are found in other verses. Just a thought.

In Love Baerly

No I do not believe in grace alone, I am an old-time, fire-baptized Pentecostal praise God!!! You said it yourself "NOT BY ANY ONE THING". Baptism is just one thing we should do to fulfill God's plan in our life.
And I did not say that it is "only by the grace of God alone". What I did say is "we are saved by the grace of God, through the blood of Jesus, by the power of the Holy Ghost". We can not receive the blood of Jesus until we repent of our sins. However, we are not saved because of our repentance or obedience or any thing we do; when we have faith to obey the word of God, God pours out his grace upon us and gives us new life in the spirit, which in turn changes us into a new creation that desires to live "in Christ" walking after the Spirit, denying the flesh.

God will save us if we take action to follow his will, but it is not because of our action that he saves us; but because of his Word.
 
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