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Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
Nobody said that nonbelievers claim that. But the parallels between Jesus and Dionysus are doubtful. Jesus was not a biological son of God. It would be blasphemous to any Christian sect.

Debunking The Jesus/Dionysus Connection | Reasons for Jesus
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Jesus was born to a mortal woman and fathered by a god. that makes him a demi-god by definition. But you keep repeating Christian dogma that he was fully god and fully man. That's impossible. I know, I know--nothing is impossible with god.
 
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Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Jesus was born to a mortal woman and fathered by a god. that makes him a demi-god by definition. But you keep repeating Christian dogma that he was fully god and fully man. That's impossible. I know, I know--nothing is impossible with god.
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Jesus wasn't fathered by a God. His conception was a supernatural act.
 
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Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
That's how the story was written because Jesus didn't become King of Israel as the Jews expected their Messiah to be. We can argue "It's a future event" or we can argue "Jesus failed on earth so it was turned into a future event". Both arguments are valid but without any evidence to back either, except for how the story got told and retold until it was finally written down.
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How the Jews expected their Messiah to be is no more valid than the Christian interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures. It's not based off the Tanakh its an interpretation that was written later.

Jewish messianism has its root in the apocalyptic literature of the 2nd century BCE to the 1st century CE, promising a future "anointed" leader or Messiah to resurrect the Israelite "Kingdom of God", in place of the foreign rulers of the time. According to Shaye J.D. Cohen, Jesus's failure to establish an independent Israel, and his death at the hands of the Romans, caused many Jews to reject him as the Messiah.[24][note 3] Jews at that time were expecting a military leader as a Messiah, such as Bar Kokhba.
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sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Skywalker said:
Jesus being the king of Israel was supposed to be a future event. It wasn't supposed to happen during the first advent of Jesus.
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Matthew says, “Where is he that is born King of the Jews?” They opened their chests and worshiped Jesus in his first iteration. Pilate inscribed “King of the Jews” on his cross. Sounds like it was a here snd now thing. That’s what the Gospel writers wrote.
 
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Skywalker

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Matthew says, “Where is he that is born King of the Jews?” They opened their chests and worshiped Jesus in his first iteration. Pilate inscribed “King of the Jews” on his cross. Sounds like it was a here snd now thing. That’s what the Gospel writers wrote.
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King of the Jews was a reference to the second advent and Jesus being God. Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

All in all, the Hebrew Scriptures indicate that the Promised One would appear, be cut off, and then reappear in victory. The first advent has occurred; the second is still future. Both the New and Old Testaments predict a second advent of the Messiah.
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night912

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
Nobody said that nonbelievers claim that. But the parallels between Jesus and Dionysus are doubtful. Jesus was not a biological son of God. It would be blasphemous to any Christian sect.
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Neither was Dionysus. A lightning bolt is not a biological lifeform. But both are still the son of a god, in which both of their mothers were impregnated with them by a god through miraculous means.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
night912 said:
Neither was Dionysus. A lightning bolt is not a biological lifeform. But both are still the son of a god, in which both of their mothers were impregnated with them by a god through miraculous means.
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Dionysus was the son of Zeus. Jesus wasn't the biological son of God. The Quran and the Holy Trinity: Islam’s Mistaken Views of Basic Christian Doctrines

As the readers may already know, a cursory reading of the Islamic scripture shows that the author of the Quran distorted or was grossly mistaken about the beliefs of Jews and Christians. For example, the author accuses Christians of holding certain theological and christological beliefs that do not correspond to the facts. The Quran erroneously assumes and condemns Christians for believing in three gods consisting of the Father, Mary his wife, and Jesus their offspring. Thus, the Quran erroneously assumes that the implication of Christian beliefs is that God acquired a son through procreation, that God and Mary had sexual relations in order to have Jesus their Son (God forbid such horrendous blasphemy!).
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night912

Well-Known Member
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
night912 said:
Neither was Dionysus. A lightning bolt is not a biological lifeform. But both are still the son of a god, in which both of their mothers were impregnated with them by a god through miraculous means.

So are we going to keep on repeating this over and over again?
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Zeus is the god of lightning in Greek mythology, but he is not a lightning bolt.
 
SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
How the Jews expected their Messiah to be is no more valid than the Christian interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures. It's not based off the Tanakh its an interpretation that was written later.
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Well, there's your key word, "Interpretation". When we read a fact, 2+2 = 4 we don't "interpret" it, it's just a fact. When a million people read the scriptures we can hear a million different interpretations of the same words. Some are totally contradictory to one another. Jesus advising his disciples to buy a sword

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

Is Jesus advising them to murder, to
Skywalker said:
How the Jews expected their Messiah to be is no more valid than the Christian interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures. It's not based off the Tanakh its an interpretation that was written later.
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And there's that deadly word, "interpretation" which gives license to 1.2 billion Christians to interpret the Bible anyway they choose. The Bible was used to justify the slaughter of millions of pagans by the RCC throughout its bloody reign. Jesus told his disciples to go buy a sword. When they said they ad two, Jesus replied it was sufficient.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. Luke 22-36-38

A strange saying for someone who out of one side of his mouth encourages violence and out of the other side of his mouth extolls, "Turn the other cheek". This passage has been "interpreted" six ways to Sunday. So which one is correct? Point is, there IS no correct way. The Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean. Fine holy book. Nothing holy about it, just a confusing mess.
 
SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
And there's that deadly word, "interpretation" which gives license to 1.2 billion Christians to interpret the Bible anyway they choose. The Bible was used to justify the slaughter of millions of pagans by the RCC throughout its bloody reign. Jesus told his disciples to go buy a sword. When they said they had two, Jesus replied it was sufficient.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. Luke 22-36-38

A strange saying for someone who out of one side of his mouth encourages violence and out of the other side of his mouth extolls, "Turn the other cheek". This passage has been "interpreted" six ways to Sunday. So which one is correct? Point is, there IS no correct way. The Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean. Fine holy book. Nothing holy about it, just a confusing mess.[/QUOTE]
 
SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
Jesus wasn't fathered by a God. His conception was a supernatural act.
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p49esb1adofng.png
 
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night912

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
Zeus is the god of lightning in Greek mythology, but he is not a lightning bolt.
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Not what your source said.

Dionysus’ mother was named Semele, and she was impregnated by Zeus when that dirty old god pulled one of his usual tricks by taking the form of a lightning bolt.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Well, there's your key word, "Interpretation". When we read a fact, 2+2 = 4 we don't "interpret" it, it's just a fact. When a million people read the scriptures we can hear a million different interpretations of the same words. Some are totally contradictory to one another. Jesus advising his disciples to buy a sword

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

Is Jesus advising them to murder, to

And there's that deadly word, "interpretation" which gives license to 1.2 billion Christians to interpret the Bible anyway they choose. The Bible was used to justify the slaughter of millions of pagans by the RCC throughout its bloody reign. Jesus told his disciples to go buy a sword. When they said they ad two, Jesus replied it was sufficient.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. Luke 22-36-38

A strange saying for someone who out of one side of his mouth encourages violence and out of the other side of his mouth extolls, "Turn the other cheek". This passage has been "interpreted" six ways to Sunday. So which one is correct? Point is, there IS no correct way. The Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean. Fine holy book. Nothing holy about it, just a confusing mess.
Click to expand...

What do the mistakes of the church have to do with the Jewish interpretation of messianic prophecies being more likely than the Christian ones?
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
And there's that deadly word, "interpretation" which gives license to 1.2 billion Christians to interpret the Bible anyway they choose. The Bible was used to justify the slaughter of millions of pagans by the RCC throughout its bloody reign. Jesus told his disciples to go buy a sword. When they said they had two, Jesus replied it was sufficient.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. Luke 22-36-38

A strange saying for someone who out of one side of his mouth encourages violence and out of the other side of his mouth extolls, "Turn the other cheek". This passage has been "interpreted" six ways to Sunday. So which one is correct? Point is, there IS no correct way. The Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean. Fine holy book. Nothing holy about it, just a confusing mess.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

Jesus was talking to the disciples about defending themselves from robbers. They were in the wilderness.
 
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night912

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
It was a sexual conception.
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Yea, just like how your God impregnated Mary, through miraculously impregnation. The only difference is that the miracle was performed differently. How do you think a human woman get pregnant?

Sex Education 101
Mommy + daddy + sex = child

Supernatural Sex Education 101
Mommy + god daddy + miracle sex = god child

You can Google for the details.
 
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