Trump and the riots

Unveiled Artist said:

No. I'm actually curious. Where does he go?

I was looking up where former presidents go and such but since he's been impeached twice, based on RF, he'd probably get mobbed before he gets out the White House's doors. But hate aside, I couldn't figure out where ex-presidents go or work and their reputation would probably prevent them from working to pay taxes.

Click to expand...

Why would he be mobbed? Yes Qanon is POed at him, but I don't see them going that far. And he can go anywhere that he wants to. If he needs security he can pay for it himself. Also he is gone already.

Lastly it is not "hate". Is it "hate" when you want to see a person that is guilty of a crime brought to justice. That is all that we want.

Subduction Zone said:

Why would he be mobbed? Yes Qanon is POed at him, but I don't see them going that far. And he can go anywhere that he wants to. If he needs security he can pay for it himself. Also he is gone already.

Lastly it is not "hate". Is it "hate" when you want to see a person that is guilty of a crime brought to justice. That is all that we want.

Click to expand...

I was just curious what he may do for a living and be a normal tax paying citizen just like the rest of us. His reputation would probably get the better of him. I feel sorry for him actually. A lot of people loose their reputation in society because of their behavior and life choices. It's rare that people care enough individually to not judge anyone based on their reputation (especially since Trump is no longer in office). Should we hold his actions against him once he is trialed and set free (maybe on a fine of some sort since he did not directly tell people to storm the capitol)?

Anyway. I'm a bit more optimistic. Though, I never really thought I'd consider myself that way. I guess it depends.

Unveiled Artist said:

I was just curious what he may do for a living and be a normal tax paying citizen just like the rest of us. His reputation would probably get the better of him. I feel sorry for him actually. A lot of people loose their reputation in society because of their behavior and life choices. It's rare that people care enough individually to not judge anyone based on their reputation (especially since Trump is no longer in office). Should we hold his actions against him once he is trialed and set free (maybe on a fine of some sort since he did not directly tell people to storm the capitol)?

Anyway. I'm a bit more optimistic. Though, I never really thought I'd consider myself that way. I guess it depends.

Click to expand...

Even though he is not as wealthy as he claims to be he is still not hurting at all for money. He is well past the normal retirement age and there is no need for him to work for a living. If he could find some positive way to spend his time I would support him one hundred percent Many years ago Jimmy Carter turned me into a conservative with his poor running of the country. I did not like his policies at all as President but he still managed to contribute quite a bit after he lost to Reagan. If Trump managed to do the same who knows? I might forgive him for what he did as President too.

Subduction Zone said:

They were hardly unorganized. One does not go to a political speech with disposable handcuffs. With crowbars and other means of breaking into a building. Now if it was just those few they would have been easily stopped. But Trump riled up his base by promising to march with them to the Capitol (did he lie or did he forget about his bone spurs in all of the excitement?). Trump got the people that went to that meeting up in arms and urged them to march on the Capitol. He instigated the riot that allowed extremists to attack the Capitol. He is at fault.

Click to expand...

If it was organized, it was certainly very poorly organized. I don’t see how it can possibly be called an “insurrection “ or a “coup” to take over the government, which was the language blasted all over the news. So far from what I read the FBI can’t find much in the way of any of those arrested in the Capitol of communicating or pre-planning together on social media or elsewhere beforehand. Maybe a couple individuals, that’s it. People have been charged so far with things as trespassing, theft, and disorderly conduct... a far cry from seditious conspiracy to overthrow the democracy.

I read Trump’s tweets which Twitter claimed violated their policy about inciting violence as their reason to lock him out of his account and he did say to “march peacefully”. Nevertheless, I think he’s been pretty reckless with a lot of his words. But the reaction from the left and the media has continually been over the top and the double standard is unbelievable.

Did you forget the riots at Trump’s inauguration?


“I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House,” the singer Madonna said in a profanity-laced speech. Remember?

“Not to mention the widespread riots, looting, and burning during the summer. Police were told to stand down while state government buildings were vandalized and burned. Statues were torn down and police vehicles were torched as law enforcement officers stood by and watched. Remember?”

Violent Protests Erupted During Trump’s Inauguration – Remember?

At Least 217 Arrested, Limo Torched Amid Trump Inauguration Day Protests in Washington

InChrist said:

If it was organized, it was certainly very poorly organized. I don’t see how it can possibly be called an “insurrection “ or a “coup” to take over the government, which was the language blasted all over the news. So far from what I read the FBI can’t find much in the way of any of those arrested in the Capitol of communicating or pre-planning together on social media or elsewhere beforehand. Maybe a couple individuals, that’s it. People have been charged so far with things as trespassing, theft, and disorderly conduct... a far cry from seditious conspiracy to overthrow the democracy.

I read Trump’s tweets which Twitter claimed violated their policy about inciting violence as their reason to lock him out of his account and he did say to “march peacefully”. Nevertheless, I think he’s been pretty reckless with a lot of his words. But the reaction from the left and the media has continually been over the top and the double standard is unbelievable.

Did you forget the riots at Trump’s inauguration?


“I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House,” the singer Madonna said in a profanity-laced speech. Remember?

“Not to mention the widespread riots, looting, and burning during the summer. Police were told to stand down while state government buildings were vandalized and burned. Statues were torn down and police vehicles were torched as law enforcement officers stood by and watched. Remember?”

Violent Protests Erupted During Trump’s Inauguration – Remember?

At Least 217 Arrested, Limo Torched Amid Trump Inauguration Day Protests in Washington

Click to expand...

The protesters, and later rioters, did not attempt to overturn a clear election. There was no doubt for anyone with more than a room temperature IQ that Biden won a fair election and that Trump lost, using his own metric, by a landslide. An illegal violent attempt to overturn an election by taking over a capitol building is an insurrection.

The two are not even close to being comparable.

Unveiled Artist said:

No. I'm actually curious. Where does he go?

I was looking up where former presidents go and such but since he's been impeached twice, based on RF, he'd probably get mobbed before he gets out the White House's doors. But hate aside, I couldn't figure out where ex-presidents go or work and their reputation would probably prevent them from working to pay taxes.

Click to expand...

Maybe Putrid Putin will give him a job as an oligarch.

Jainarayan said:

Operative words "I think". There's no basis for banning him from office unless he's convicted of a felony. Wishful thinking.

Click to expand...

Well, no. The basis would be a Senate conviction and determination that this is warranted.

Felonies are a separate matter. Generally, felons are eligible to be President.

Subduction Zone said:

Even though he is not as wealthy as he claims to be he is still not hurting at all for money. He is well past the normal retirement age and there is no need for him to work for a living. If he could find some positive way to spend his time I would support him one hundred percent Many years ago Jimmy Carter turned me into a conservative with his poor running of the country. I did not like his policies at all as President but he still managed to contribute quite a bit after he lost to Reagan. If Trump managed to do the same who knows? I might forgive him for what he did as President too.

Click to expand...

True. Not all business men are apt for presidency

InChrist said:

Well, I have to get going somewhere right now, so can’t respond further. Personally, I think the whole thing is theatrics: Trump, Biden , the militarized occupied inauguration in D.C., etc. We are witnessing the demise of the USA as we’ve known it, including the freedom we’ve been used to.

Click to expand...

I never thought I'd ever see the day where a crazy mob stormed and overtook the Capitol of the USA chanting that they wanted to hang the Vice President, while beating and trampling people to death.
That's the point I thought I was watching the USA implode.

KenS said:

Not only is that true... but the breach happened while he was still talking. Time-wise, an impossibility for him to finish talking and then have the people start moving forward.

That being said, because of the dynamics of a mob, regular people do irregular things and I'm sure there were some Trumpeters along with Antifa and other fringe groups.

Click to expand...

Apparently I have to post this again:

FBI: No Evidence Antifa Involved In Capitol Chaos

KenS said:

Not only is that true... but the breach happened while he was still talking. Time-wise, an impossibility for him to finish talking and then have the people start moving forward.

That being said, because of the dynamics of a mob, regular people do irregular things and I'm sure there were some Trumpeters along with Antifa and other fringe groups.

Click to expand...

Have you not seen the videos where the crazy mob is telling security they are there at the behest of Trump, "your boss?"

Unveiled Artist said:

True. Not all business men are apt for presidency

Click to expand...

No doubt. I am merely saying that if he could do some good now that he is no longer President I would be more inclined to forgive some of his failures as President.

SkepticThinker said:

Apparently I have to post this again:

FBI: No Evidence Antifa Involved In Capitol Chaos

Click to expand...

And I am betting that it will not be the last time that you have to post this.

And who are you going to believe, a federal agency with a very well respected reputation or a bunch of crazies that tried to overthrow the government? Sadly the answer for some is to believe the crazies.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Well, no. The basis would be a Senate conviction and determination that this is warranted.

Felonies are a separate matter. Generally, felons are eligible to be President.

Click to expand...

A felon can run for President from prison. I would link Lyndon LaRouche but I am too lazy right now. This is why Trump needs to be convicted. Number one it is a justice issue. Second it could help Republicans to move on and get back on a sane route to opposition to the Democrats. It may still take some time

Subduction Zone said:

No doubt. I am merely saying that if he could do some good now that he is no longer President I would be more inclined to forgive some of his failures as President.

Click to expand...

I hope a lot of people think this way. To give a strong off comparison, it's like someone who was a child rapist came from jail and tried to get a job but people (because of the media) won't forgive him because of his past and won't let him be a better person. It seems like the same mentality is centered around the president insofar that people are actually want to condemn him to death.

Maybe you're the minority but I honestly don't see that happening.

SkepticThinker said:

I never thought I'd ever see the day where a crazy mob stormed and overtook the Capitol of the USA chanting that they wanted to hang the Vice President, while beating and trampling people to death.
That's the point I thought I was watching the USA implode.

Click to expand...

Have you ever read the history of attacks upon the U.S. Capitol?

A History of Attacks at the US Capitol

Let's remember that Trump also caused riots in 2017.

Shadow Wolf said:

Trump seems to have wanted it, appearing gleeful as it happened, and thanking those who did it, saying they are special and he lives him.
Remember, Trumpeters have been playing this game for a few years now. Trumps actions amd own words demonstrates those who play this "he didn't really mean it" nonsense are wrong and contradicting what Trump himself has said.

Click to expand...

I don't think Trump wanted people to invade the capitol building or wanted anyone to die. I don't think he was happy about those outcomes. I think he expected the crowd to cheer for Republicans and Boo for Democrats. But it doesn't surprise me that people who appear to hate Trump attach additional subtext to his remarks, even when it is a common American idiom such as "fight like Hell". They have, after all, been "playing this game" for years now, crying wolf at everything Trump says.

Ponder This said:

I don't think Trump wanted people to invade the capitol building or wanted anyone to die.

Click to expand...

Regardless, they were only there as a direct consequence of Trump's insistence on pushing the debunked claim of widespread electoral fraud.

If I tell a bunch of people that you are, say, a child murderer, despite a lack of any evidence of it being true (and multiple attempts to bring the claim before a court being dismissed), but I nevertheless tell a bunch of people who I am in a position of power and/or trust over that you are a child murderer and we should march on your house - but that we should do it "totally peacefully" - and in the end the protest turns violent and people break into your house and end up being hurt or killed (or hurting or killing you), I cannot defend my actions on the basis of "I never told them to break in!"

They were there as a direct consequence of my false allegations, and the control I had over them. I am culpable for the fallout of those actions.

What's more, there are multiple reports from advisors and aides that Trump actively delayed sending in the national guard to protect the capital, and he repeatedly missed calls from Republian collegues in fear of their lives begging him to call off the rioters because he was too invested watching the live feed.

So, to argue that he made even the smallest real effort to ensuring the protest didn't end in bloodshed beyond lip service is false.

Ponder This said:

I don't think he was happy about those outcomes.

Click to expand...

For someone who seems to put a lot of stock into the honesty of Trump's words, don't you think it would have been a good idea for him to have SAID that, instead of telling the rioters he "loved them"?

Ponder This said:

I think he expected the crowd to cheer for Republicans and Boo for Democrats.

Click to expand...

Actually, he explicitly told them not to cheer for Republicans that refused to support his claims of electoral fraud.

Ponder This said:

I
But it doesn't surprise me that people who appear to hate Trump attach additional subtext to his remarks, even when it is a common American idiom such as "fight like Hell". They have, after all, been "playing this game" for years now, crying wolf at everything Trump says.

Click to expand...

Five people are dead because a huge group of rioters who attempted to break into the capitol building in an attempt to overturn a democratic election because Trump has repeatedly and against all legal consequence pushed the idea that the election is fraudulent on them.

I think we are well past the "you're just being unfair on Trump - he's not THAT bad" arguments now, and the fact that you still feel the need to stick up for him in light of his recent actions is disgraceful.

You should feel ashamed.

Ponder This said:

I don't think Trump wanted people to invade the capitol building or wanted anyone to die. I don't think he was happy about those outcomes. I think he expected the crowd to cheer for Republicans and Boo for Democrats. But it doesn't surprise me that people who appear to hate Trump attach additional subtext to his remarks, even when it is a common American idiom such as "fight like Hell". They have, after all, been "playing this game" for years now, crying wolf at everything Trump says.

Click to expand...

Republican Senator Sasse says that Trump was delighted with the invasion of the Capitol:

Sasse says Trump was 'delighted' and 'excited' by reports of Capitol riot