I really love Jesus

Shadow Wolf · Jan 21, 2021

Valjean said:
No,

Jesus said something like "there are those among you will will not taste death till the son of man returns." (paraphrase)
There are several places in the Bible where the imminent end of days is mentioned, and the early Christians expected the lord's coming within their lifetimes.

Then, now, half way between, and every other point there in. To some it's a Great Disappointment it didn't happen when expected. Amd still they expect it, and still they fail. Earthquakes have always been frequent, and it doesn't bode well for the wars and rumors of war when we are having fewer wars and less violence overall.

Deeje · Jan 21, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
I find it useless. Love for the deserving and disdain for the undeserving is more honest and does not require us masking and bottling our true emotions and feelings.

In our experience, praying for people might be a bit different to what the churches advocate. It seems as if many church-goers see prayer as some kind of request for God and please give us a miracle....and if enough people pray, that 'pester power' will get a good result. Its as if God is up there being fickle and precocious, giving in to some whilst denying others. We don't see prayer that way at all.

As Jesus indicated, it was the will of the Father that was paramount, and his prayers always reflected a subservient attitude of bowing to God's will in all things, because what God allowed, he was allowing for a good reason.

Prayer can be for a softening of someone's heart towards an issue or person. It can be for strength to endure a hardship or an illness.....but not for a miracle...those were for the first century because they were a demonstration of what would take place in the new world to come.....a time when Jesus said that "all things" would be made "new". (Revelation 21:5; 2 Peter 3:13)

"Love for the deserving and disdain for the undeserving" is what Jesus advocated. But "bottling true emotions and feelings is what we have to do to an extent every day of our lives.....its nothing new and has little to do with religion. If we were to demonstrate our true emotions and feelings and give vent to them, we'd probably not be able to live in this world without getting arrested!

Shadow Wolf said:
If someone wants it done to them they are fulfilling the Golden Rule.

Not really because if its harmful it doesn't fulfill it at all. That was the message behind the statement.

Shadow Wolf said:
No, it merely reveals a woeful shortcoming.

Again, if you misinterpret the "Golden Rule", instead of it shining, you can turn it into rusty junk.

Shadow Wolf · Jan 21, 2021

Deeje said:
Love for the deserving and disdain for the undeserving" is what Jesus advocated.

That is what Lucifer advocates. Jesus was love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemy, and turn the other cheek. To show tolerance and love to the undeserving. Better to cast those sorts out of our lives and be done with them than needlessly waste your efforts and energy and time with these thoughts amd prayers for them.

rational experiences · Jan 21, 2021

I really love my human spiritual father.

I really love my spiritual human brother.

I care little for my occult science brother who purposely hurts us by his intent of I want and I will.

Jesus I thought was an evil act. I don't live evil.

It was an explanation why pyramid mountain nose point Sus....attacked sacrificed life giving it a bio suffering

Suffering is not a Separate science thesis

Wait a minute a healthy occult brother thinks he is safe as he is not a human.

Why he lied.

Deeje · Jan 21, 2021

Valjean said:
No,

Jesus said something like "there are those among you will will not taste death till the son of man returns." (paraphrase)

No he did not say that....he said....."Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.” And......"Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and his brother John along and led them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them; his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light." Thus he fulfilled what he had promised them....they saw their Lord transfigured as their mighty King....as he will be seen in his Kingdom. Coming down from the mountain he told them not to mention the "vision" to anyone until after his death and resurrection. (Matthew 17:9)

This had nothing to do with his return.

There are several places in the Bible where the imminent end of days is mentioned, and the early Christians expected the lord's coming within their lifetimes.

Did you ever understand why God always kept the coming of the Kingdom imminent in the minds of his worshippers?
It is obvious that God does not operate his affairs in limited Earth time. His activities are not conducted according to the revolution of our tiny planet. The first rebel as we know from Genesis, was not human, so all that transpired after the fall was done with this first rebel in mind....conducted in his timezone, not ours. We are merely the hostages taken in this situation. This isn't just about us....all we can do is mess up a planet....the spirit beings who joined the original rebel, can mess up the whole universe. This is as much about them as it is about us. We are all proving something by how we live in obedience to God, and in how we choose to worship. Like it or not, we all 'worship' something.

Since death ends our finite existence, no one will have to wait for the Kingdom to come, longer than their own lifetime. For the dead, time stands still so there is no consciousness of time passing. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
When the dead are resurrected, it will be as though they closed their eyes only a moment ago. Their past life will be as fresh to them as when they died.

If we had been told in the beginning that the end was still thousands of years into the future, then how would anyone's faith have held out, given what the devil was allowed to do in his attempt to steer people away from God? This provided "enough rope" for God to have everyone either save themselves....or hang themselves.
We determine which by how we have lived this life. But this is the "time of the end"...a time when all will be held to account because the ignorance of our day will be an ignorance of choice......

"This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones". (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

There are only two categories of people who have to worry about the outcome of these troubled times...."those who do not know God" (because they don't want to) and those who know God but "do not obey the good news about Jesus" (in order that God will preserve them through his final judgment on this present system of things.)

That is how I understand our situation from my study of the Bible.

I hope we can all make good choices and have our lives revert back to the conditions that our first parents enjoyed in paradise.....I believe that it was meant to be our permanent home.

Deeje · Jan 21, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
That is what Lucifer advocates.

Satan is not called Lucifer in the Bible.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002687?q=lucifer&p=par

Satan advocates whatever you want him to ....just as long as you show no interest in the true God.
False gods or no god at all, it makes no difference to him......he will allow you to 'worship' whatever suits you...even if that is you own wants and needs.

Jesus was love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemy, and turn the other cheek. To show tolerance and love to the undeserving. Better to cast those sorts out of our lives and be done with them than needlessly waste your efforts and energy and time with these thoughts amd prayers for them.

Again, I think you misunderstand....who was Jesus talking to? To those whom the religious leaders had condemned as unworthy of their time and attention....the "tax collectors and sinners". Their 'neighbors' were people like themselves. They included even hated Samaritans. Showing tolerance to the 'deserving' is what he advocated.

These were not 'undeserving' ones in God's eyes, but they were in the eyes of the Pharisees.
'Loving your enemies' was not the kind of love that necessarily engendered warm affection, but the kind that did not allow hatred to make you behave like them.

We can rightfully pray for God to soften people's hearts so that the truth about his Kingdom and what it will do for this earth might make them awake to the times. God does not desire to destroy anyone, (2 Peter 3:9) but he will destroy all wickedness....so if we hang onto it, we will go down with it.

Shadow Wolf · Jan 22, 2021

Deeje said:
Satan is not called Lucifer in the Bible.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002687?q=lucifer&p=par

Satan advocates whatever you want him to ....just as long as you show no interest in the true God.
False gods or no god at all, it makes no difference to him......he will allow you to 'worship' whatever suits you...even if that is you own wants and needs.

This just showed a great chasm of ignorance of Luciferianism and Satanism as a whole.
He doesn't want our worship. He has no need or want of those who kneel and bow before others, and those who would worship him are counted among the weak.

Deeje said:
We can rightfully pray for God to soften people's hearts so that the truth about his Kingdom and what it will do for this earth might make them awake to the times.

Many occultist (and not necessarily LHP) would consider this black magick to seek to impose a significant change in another against their Will.
It also suggests a distaste of otherness and desire to see everyone conform to your beliefs.

Deeje said:
Again, I think you misunderstand....who was Jesus talking to? To those whom the religious leaders had condemned as unworthy of their time and attention....the "tax collectors and sinners". Their 'neighbors' were people like themselves. They included even hated Samaritans. Showing tolerance to the 'deserving' is what he advocated.

These were not 'undeserving' ones in God's eyes, but they were in the eyes of the Pharisees.
'Loving your enemies' was not the kind of love that necessarily engendered warm affection, but the kind that did not allow hatred to make you behave like them.

Ultimately the only ones Jesus finds as deserving are those who plead for his forgiveness over an unfair problem that turned into a lie in the system that his father designed. Don't do that and he makes it clear you are undeserving before his eyes.

halbhh · Jan 22, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
I've noticed when you describe your experience there isn't a direct connection but a close personal association based on your personal belief and biases. So, if I didn't know your belief system,

As I say it (my own wording) -- I found out that "God" definitely exists, in some sense at least, to my very real surprise.

I was shocked, actually.

Jesus is someone who knows more about God than other teachers of a very wide variety that I read in -- this was my view after enough time and experience. But, as I found that each thing Jesus said I tested (many of them just over and over, trying to see where they might fail) -- turned out to work, consistently, in the way he said, then I began to notice this 100% result building up over time.

That makes an impression.

What's a good analogy? Here's a possible one: Einstein was very good at having insights into nature. He was better at that than most other scientists (some would say easily the greatest of his day).

If you wanted to learn physics, and then tried to ignore all of Einstein's theories -- which are of course at this point highly integrated into a wide range of physics such as astrophysics especially, but even stuff like having accurate GPS satellite calculation... -- trying to ignore Einstein's theories a person would up with an inadequate understanding, compared to someone that learned all of Einstein's theories.

But in this case the analogy falls short. The case with Jesus is more pronounced than this analogy, but at least the analogy does helpfully point out the basic situation.

halbhh · Jan 22, 2021

Valjean said:
Jesus said something like "there are those among you will will not taste death till the son of man returns." (paraphrase)

Here's your verse:

Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

And...here are the immediate next few verses:

1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
Matthew 17 NIV

Deeje · Jan 22, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
This just showed a great chasm of ignorance of Luciferianism and Satanism as a whole.

It is an ignorance that I don’t plan on changing. As far as I am concerned there is no difference since the deity is the same, no matter what you call him.
If you love Jesus, you can’t love satan.

Shadow Wolf said:
He doesn't want our worship. He has no need or want of those who kneel and bow before others, and those who would worship him are counted among the weak.

Worship is exactly what satan was after from day one, according to scripture. He even tried to get Jesus to do “one act of worship” to him...so just one act was enough to stroke his ego.....he didn’t get what he wanted, but the temptations were those that would have swayed the devil, but not the son of God....so who exhibited the weakness of character?

Shadow Wolf said:
Many occultist (and not necessarily LHP) would consider this black magick to seek to impose a significant change in another against their Will.

God would never do anything against a person’s free will. But he has on occasion seen a significant change in a person’s will, motivated by a change in circumstances. Manasseh comes to mind. The apostle Paul also.
On the other side of that coin, God did not seek to soften the heart of the Egyptian Pharaoh who chased after the liberated Israelites. His prideful actions caused untold hardship for his own people. He was given so many opportunities to change his attitude, but he refused. He and his whole nation paid a big price.

It also suggests a distaste of otherness and desire to see everyone conform to your beliefs.

Distaste for things pertaining to false worship is something taught by God in the Bible. We merely reflect his distaste for the false religious systems that the devil has set up throughout the earth since the days of Noah. Identifying these and avoiding them was part of Israel’s law. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

Those who came to worship the true God from pagan religions in ancient times, were welcomed, but those who left the true God to pursue false worship were punished. Defection from true worship is not forgivable in God’s eyes. But all are free to exercise their free will....for now. I believe it’s how we show God who we are and where we stand on the issue of worship.

Shadow Wolf said:
Ultimately the only ones Jesus finds as deserving are those who plead for his forgiveness over an unfair problem that turned into a lie in the system that his father designed.

You think God designed this system??? Seriously? Any wonder you think everything is unfair. Why would God create a this world and then punish people who were forced to live in it?

Truth be known, it was satan who created the system that runs the world....we can thank him for hijacking the human race for his own selfish agenda and creating all the problems that people such as yourself have had to navigate down through changing times.

“Bad” has been substituted for “good” and hardly anyone can tell the difference anymore. This is why there was a tree in the garden of Eden, representing God’s right to make that choice for us. Humans with free will were never supposed to have that kind of freedom.....or you end up with what we have now......that is why God withdrew, to show us where that kind of freedom would take us. Apparently we can’t be told....but we can be shown. Some of us will actually get it.....but many will be blinded by “the god of this world”. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

Don't do that and he makes it clear you are undeserving before his eyes.

It’s about recognising what “sin” is from God’s perspective, where it comes from, and where it leads people. If we don’t see a problem, then we will not be prepared to change our ways. Who wants you to blame God for everything when it’s was really him you need to blame for the way the world is? (1 John 5:19) :shrug:

The battle between good and evil has been waged since man first challenged God’s right to set limits for them....something that would never have happened without satan’s rebellion.

If you want to lay blame......that is where I would put it.

Shadow Wolf · Jan 22, 2021

Deeje said:
It is an ignorance that I don’t plan on changing. A

Then it is something you cannot properly discuss or debate.

Deeje said:
Worship is exactly what satan was after from day one, according to scripture.

And yet all of my texts say he most definitely does not want our worship. He rebelled to set us free from the chains of one god demanding and expecting worship. He didn't do that to free us from one set of shackles to put another on us.

Deeje said:
Distaste for things pertaining to false worship

We don't worship.

Deeje said:
You think God designed this system??? Seriously?

He did create everything as your creation mythos go.

Deeje said:
It’s about recognising what “sin” is from God’s perspective, where it comes from, and where it leads people.

Sin is nothing more than chains to ensnare those who a brutally oppressive god is keeping tabs on everything you do and will horribly punish you for not doing as he tells.

Unveiled Artist · Jan 22, 2021

halbhh said:
As I say it (my own wording) -- I found out that "God" definitely exists, in some sense at least, to my very real surprise.

I was shocked, actually.

Jesus is someone who knows more about God than other teachers of a very wide variety that I read in -- this was my view after enough time and experience. But, as I found that each thing Jesus said I tested (many of them just over and over, trying to see where they might fail) -- turned out to work, consistently, in the way he said, then I began to notice this 100% result building up over time.

That makes an impression.

What's a good analogy? Here's a possible one: Einstein was very good at having insights into nature. He was better at that than most other scientists (some would say easily the greatest of his day).

If you wanted to learn physics, and then tried to ignore all of Einstein's theories -- which are of course at this point highly integrated into a wide range of physics such as astrophysics especially, but even stuff like having accurate GPS satellite calculation... -- trying to ignore Einstein's theories a person would up with an inadequate understanding, compared to someone that learned all of Einstein's theories.

But in this case the analogy falls short. The case with Jesus is more pronounced than this analogy, but at least the analogy does helpfully point out the basic situation.

Hmm. Another view could be there are many scientist, a whole pantheon of them, that we've learned say medicine and the hypocratic oath from. Therefore, instead of being founded by one source but multiple. Then you can have various studies that match your experiences.

How do we know for sake of discussion all experiences or studies derive from one source both in analogy and in spirituality?

Deeje · Jan 22, 2021

Shadow Wolf said:
Then it is something you cannot properly discuss or debate.

And yet all of my texts say he most definitely does not want our worship. He rebelled to set us free from the chains of one god demanding and expecting worship. He didn't do that to free us from one set of shackles to put another on us.

We don't worship.

He did create everything as your creation mythos go.

Sin is nothing more than chains to ensnare those who a brutally oppressive god is keeping tabs on everything you do and will horribly punish you for not doing as he tells.

Not even close....but what’s the point in continuing? You’ve made up your mind and so have I. We will all find out in the end whether our trust was misplaced.

halbhh · Jan 23, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
Hmm. Another view could be there are many scientist, a whole pantheon of them, that we've learned say medicine and the hypocratic oath from. Therefore, instead of being founded by one source but multiple. Then you can have various studies that match your experiences.

How do we know for sake of discussion all experiences or studies derive from one source both in analogy and in spirituality?

For me, the answer is to test out their instructions, do what they say to do, or practice their practices as the devoted do (chanting in a Hindu temple or in a ritual (I enjoyed the "thousand names of god" ritual a lot), or meditating with the yogis, etc.). Even for the Tao for instance, one can think of ways, and it can be beneficial (though not everyone would necessarily be able to figure out how to test the Tao, but I did figure out a way). I tried these more than just a little. (l even lived in a meditation community for about a year and a half.)

Unveiled Artist · Jan 23, 2021

halbhh said:
For me, the answer is to test out their instructions, do what they say to do, or practice their practices as the devoted do (chanting in a Hindu temple or in a ritual (I enjoyed the "thousand names of god" ritual a lot), or meditating with the yogis, etc.). Even for the Tao for instance, one can think of ways, and it can be beneficial (though not everyone would necessarily be able to figure out how to test the Tao, but I did figure out a way). I tried these more than just a little. (l even lived in a meditation community for about a year and a half.)

Hm. There is a quote I like from letters to a young poet by Rainer Maria Wilkes.

He says:

You are so young, so much before all beginning, and I would like to beg you, dear Sir, as well as I can, to have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language.

Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.

Perhaps you do carry within you the possibility of creating and forming, as an especially blessed and pure way of living; train yourself for that -- but take whatever comes, with great trust, and as long as it comes out of your will, out of some need of your innermost self, then take it upon yourself.

--Rainer Maria Rilke, from "Letters to a Young Poet"

I wonder if you didn't test but had faith answers would come you'd end in a different view than you are now.

halbhh · Jan 23, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
Hm. There is a quote I like from letters to a young poet by Rainer Maria Wilkes.

He says:

I wonder if you didn't test but had faith answers would come you'd end in a different view than you are now.

Well, I was an atheist, so that was my "view". I came to faith because of doing the things Christ said. I didn't come to faith in the claims of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi though I did indeed meditate quite well to very good effect (it is quite wonderful) for that intensive year and a half, complete with weekend retreats and consistent daily meditations, the whole thing, and with guides, and so on. I hit the limits as it were there. There are many paths. Why assume I can't walk on more than one? I found a lot of good things in many paths. Part of why Christ is so convincing to me, personally, is exactly because I have so much to compare with.

I really love Jesus

Shadow Wolf

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Deeje

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rational experiences

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Deeje

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halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".

Deeje

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Shadow Wolf

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Unveiled Artist

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Deeje

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halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".

Unveiled Artist

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halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".