• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Trump and the riots

U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Magic Man said:
I'm saying the info you get from that site is selective. They're going to include actual facts, but in a dishonest way. In this case, they can include some things Trump said and ignore the others that contradict their point.
Click to expand...

Here's two of his speeches.

Donald Trump Speech "Save America" Rally Transcript January 6 - Rev

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." Is in the one above. I haven't gone through the other quotes.

Donald Trump Concedes Election, Condemns Rioters Video Speech Transcript January 7 - Rev

Of course everything needs to be read in context. I wouldn't be surprised that's what he wanted people to do in his head as many do when they disagree with something someone told them.

Believing him or not is quite a different story.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Magic Man said:
Yeah, this is going way off the rails now. I mean, first of all, "the government" was Trump until just yesterday. "The government" didn't force any companies to do anything.

Again, this is why I gave you that chart. It gives you a good guide to sources that give reliable info/takes on Trump and everything else. It's not hard to find objective, factual information about Trump. All you're doing is furthering his attempt to confuse everything, so people don't know what to believe and therefore everything is fair game. It's an attack on truth, reality and our democracy.
Click to expand...

I'd have to look at other sites mirroring the chart since it's so small to even read it. Government as in FBI and so forth. I don't trust the government being objective in what they do and how they do it.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Unveiled Artist said:
Here's two of his speeches.

Donald Trump Speech "Save America" Rally Transcript January 6 - Rev

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." Is in the one above. I haven't gone through the other quotes.

Donald Trump Concedes Election, Condemns Rioters Video Speech Transcript January 7 - Rev

Of course everything needs to be read in context. I wouldn't be surprised that's what he wanted people to do in his head as many do when they disagree with something someone told them.

Believing him or not is quite a different story.
Click to expand...

From the first link:

"All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical left Democrats, which is what they’re doing and stolen by the fake news media. That’s what they’ve done and what they’re doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved."

"Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal."

"We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen."

"We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong."

I'll leave it at that for now. This is my whole point. You can't pick one line out and ignore the rest. The entire tenor of his speech was "democrats are stealing this election and assaulting out country, and we need to fight back and stop them from this theft". You can't go on like that for an hour like this and include one line mentioning "peacefully and patriotically" and expect that to be the main thing that sticks.
 
Martin

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Unveiled Artist said:
Here's two of his speeches.

Donald Trump Speech "Save America" Rally Transcript January 6 - Rev

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." Is in the one above. I haven't gone through the other quotes.

Donald Trump Concedes Election, Condemns Rioters Video Speech Transcript January 7 - Rev

Of course everything needs to be read in context. I wouldn't be surprised that's what he wanted people to do in his head as many do when they disagree with something someone told them.

Believing him or not is quite a different story.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the 7th Jan speech was made after he got impeached. Too little, too late. On 6th Jan he told the rioters "We love you, you're special", having earlier wound up the crowd by repeating the lie of a stolen election.
Anyway, this will all be looked at during Trump's trial on the Senate. Due process.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Unveiled Artist said:
I'd have to look at other sites mirroring the chart since it's so small to even read it.
Click to expand...

Here is the site. When I view my post there, it's pretty big and easily viewable, but if you want it even bigger, you can go to the site and view it however you want:

Static MBC - Ad Fontes Media

Government as in FBI and so forth. I don't trust the government being objective in what they do and how they do it.
Click to expand...

First of all, the president essentially oversees the FBI. That's how he fired James Comey, the FBI director. You don't have to "trust the government" to see that it's ridiculous to claim they forced social media sites to take action against fake news.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Magic Man said:
From the first link:

"All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical left Democrats, which is what they’re doing and stolen by the fake news media. That’s what they’ve done and what they’re doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved."

"Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal."

"We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen."

"We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong."

I'll leave it at that for now. This is my whole point. You can't pick one line out and ignore the rest. The entire tenor of his speech was "democrats are stealing this election and assaulting out country, and we need to fight back and stop them from this theft". You can't go on like that for an hour like this and include one line mentioning "peacefully and patriotically" and expect that to be the main thing that sticks.
Click to expand...

I haven't gone through the other quotes. It would take me awhile to go through all the speeches to pick out the quotes he said and how he said it in context.

If it did add up that Trump said to be peaceful in their protests (even though the people did otherwise) without media bias, would you accept that view or hold to yours?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Meerkat said:
I'm pretty sure the 7th Jan speech was made after he got impeached. Too little, too late. On 6th Jan he told the rioters "We love you, you're special", having earlier wound up the crowd by repeating the lie of a stolen election.
Anyway, this will all be looked at during Trump's trial on the Senate. Due process.
Click to expand...

But did he actually say storm the capitol and "fight for me?"
 
Martin

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Unveiled Artist said:
I haven't gone through the other quotes. It would take me awhile to go through all the speeches to pick out the quotes he said and how he said it in context.

If it did add up that Trump said to be peaceful in their protests (even though the people did otherwise) without media bias, would you accept that view or hold to yours?
Click to expand...

The Senate will decide in due course.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Unveiled Artist said:
I haven't gone through the other quotes. It would take me awhile to go through all the speeches to pick out the quotes he said and how he said it in context.

If it did add up that Trump said to be peaceful in their protests (even though the people did otherwise) without media bias, would you accept that view or hold to yours?
Click to expand...

Since we already know that's not the case, why bother speculating? All of his rhetoric since the election (and really since he got into politics) has been combative, with an emphasis on how awful democrats are and how corrupt they are and how they're trying to do all kinds of underhanded/evil things. During his rallies, he often supported violence from his attendees. He even said at one that he'd pay the legal fees for anyone who got violent with protesters at the rally.

If you have any question as to whether Trump's rhetoric has supported violence, then you either haven't paid attention, or you are being disingenuous.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Ponder This said:
Lindsey Graham continues to use the phrase "fight like Hell" days after the capitol riot. It's also clear that he doesn't want riots and invasions of capitol buildings.
Click to expand...
Trump seems to have wanted it, appearing gleeful as it happened, and thanking those who did it, saying they are special and he lives him.
Remember, Trumpeters have been playing this game for a few years now. Trumps actions amd own words demonstrates those who play this "he didn't really mean it" nonsense are wrong and contradicting what Trump himself has said.
 
Martin

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Unveiled Artist said:
But did he actually say storm the capitol and "fight for me?"
Click to expand...

He told them they had to be strong and fight like hell. He wound them up by repeating the lie of a stolen election, and the further lie that Mike Pence could overturn the election result. The mob deliberately tried to halt the ratification process in the Capitol.
Previously Trump had condoned and encouraged extremist elements like the Proud Boys. And so on.
Personally I think Trump is guilty of the main charge, inciting insurrection.
But the Senate will decide, according to the constitution.
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
People went bat **** crazy of their own volition, not taking responsibility for their own actions. Enough of the "it's not my fault", "he made me do it" nonsense. Grow up and take some responsibility.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said:
I'm not sure if this would be considered on a objective basis since people hate Trump, but I never thought he started the riot at the capitol. Here's something about it Trump Did Not Cause, Commit Capitol Riots

On three occasions during his speech, President Trump encouraged his supporters to march to the Capitol and cheer for Trump's election. President Trump, however, did not state or imply that anyone should breach the Capitol, vandalize it or accost the lawmakers. In fact, he specifically stated that their protest should be peaceful. The three statements are as follows:

"And, after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down, any one you want but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave Senators, Congressmen and women."

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building, to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

"We're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol and we're going to try and give, the Democrats are hopeless, they're never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."

...

Whether the author likes Trump or not (which is irrelevant) is not really the issue. To me, it's more people already didn't like Trump so they pin anything on the guy just because of the behavior of his "followers."

Enjoy
Click to expand...
If one's only source is a right wing wacko source one should have doubts about their arguments. If their arguments were valid you should be able to find them from a more reliable source.

That does not mean that you cannot use Newsmax and other such services for your original ideas. Just don't try to justify your beliefs using them. They are not reliable.


I like to use sources such as Media Bias Fact Check to see how accurate sources are. And please note, they don't just claim sources are questionable. They can show specific articles where they were wrong or had a very biased interpretation when they make their decisions. It is not just "because we say so". Here is the link for their rating of Newsmax:

Newsmax Bias Rating - Media Bias Fact Check
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
KenS said:
Not only is that true... but the breach happened while he was still talking. Time-wise, an impossibility for him to finish talking and then have the people start moving forward.

That being said, because of the dynamics of a mob, regular people do irregular things and I'm sure there were some Trumpeters along with Antifa and other fringe groups.
Click to expand...

I wonder if this followers misread his statement of marching to the capitol peacefully.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
InChrist said:
Whatever, just because you don’t like certain news sources and are good at using derogatory names does not discount reality. How many politicians on both sides have said things such as “fight like hell”? You’ve probably said similar things in your lifetime without ever literally meaning to fight with physical violence.
The United States government has instigated numerous coups in other countries, inciting violence, death and destruction. Several of these real and deadly insurrections occurred during the Obama/ Biden administration.
These real insurrections, orchestrated with tactical, covert military operatives shine the light on what an insurrection is. A bunch of disorganized nuts, a guy with Viking horns, or people caught up in a mob scene at the Capitol on January 6th was not an insurrection.


Click to expand...
They were hardly unorganized. One does not go to a political speech with disposable handcuffs. With crowbars and other means of breaking into a building. Now if it was just those few they would have been easily stopped. But Trump riled up his base by promising to march with them to the Capitol (did he lie or did he forget about his bone spurs in all of the excitement?). Trump got the people that went to that meeting up in arms and urged them to march on the Capitol. He instigated the riot that allowed extremists to attack the Capitol. He is at fault.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top