Yes, I wonder too because Jesus said Not to repeat the same according to Matthew 6:7
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Prayer
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Or their minds have been conditioned by religious groups that make them think this is what God wants.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
I have no problem saying "I love you" several times, but to repeat a whole prayer many times makes it look like God is not paying attention and you have to get his attention.
As a person who does this, but belongs to no religious organization and have no one telling me what to do, I can say that the repetition of a short mantra helps calm my mind, and remind me of the attributes of the deity its said in honor of.
I can't speak for others, though.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I guess that's what it seems on the outside. Though, each repetition has meaning to the prayer so to them it's less about how often one says I love jesus but more about the connection one has with jesus and the words when expressed and experienced. It may be foreign but not wrong.
I don't mean this rudely. This sounds more don't judge a book by its cover. It's the intentions and relationship the prayer has with jesus; to other people it's repetition. I guess another way to say it is if a person studies the bible, goes to theology class, becomes an authority, and all of that doesn't mean much unless he has a strong relationship with christ even if he cannot read the bible noneless study it.
Maybe you (guys) are focusing more on ritual and less on the intention and relationship with christ that's behind it.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Many times, we pray as a group rather than as an individual. For example, we pray as a family, or we pray as a faith community. In such a case we might have a spokesperson pray aloud for us, or we might pray the words together in unison. I have no problem with this. Do you?
Mostly praying is giving thanks. In Judaism we have a saying that we should bless God a hundred times a day. It puts things into perspective for us.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So. Is God insecure? Does he need to be reassured?
Dont you think there could be some other option? If there ever was another option that, what do you think it will be?
When membership in a religious group carries social benefits with it, it's useful to advertise your membership in that group so that others will know that you should be afforded those benefits.
Prayers in governmental settings - legislatures, courtrooms, public schools, etc. - serve a purpose as a display of tacit ownership... like a dog marking its territory.
Less cynically than my first answer (though probably still unsatisfying for theists):
A person's image of God is usually shaped by their ideas of virtue and perfection. When prayer is done as a way of "aligning one's will to God," it's often a roundabout way of trying to focus on what the person sees as ultimately good and important... i.e. trying to see past smaller, temporary issues to focus on what's best in the big picture.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The difference is repetition doesn't mean praying in vain. If your heart isn't there, yes; it would be. Instead, it's about your relationship with christ not the intervals of prayer.
How does one judge another's relationship with christ by how they pray rather than the intention and experience behind the prayer?
It's also interesting that the same person with a healthy relationship with god has a relationship only based on the building they pray in. While god knows otherwise, how do the two add up?
Yes, a kind of internal reflection?
I do this without the God persona. Sometimes intentional reflection. Sometimes something is bothering me so I suppose it helps to create an internal narrative to work out the issues.
The subconscious mind creates personas to communicate with the conscious self. Though seems a bit weird to the view subconscious mind as a separate autonomous entity.
Makes sense, to validate oneself as an authentic member of the group.
I don't know. I don't myself fish for praise but it is reassuring when it comes. If I God does exist, I'd hope it's not one that needs reassurance so already ruled that out as a valid reason but some seem to feel God needs to be praised.
There have been other ideas provided, like member identification, self-reflection. The first not being useful for me. The second I personally don't need a God entity for.
Some feel they can influence God, but there is no evidence for this case.
I suppose the big one is people see God as the ultimate authority. So to focus on this authority to align one's self with it.
For me, most Gods being offered by religions lack sufficient moral authority. So folks end up crafting a God to fit whatever requirements they feel God should have. With ultimately makes themselves the authority. They are convinced the authority is external with is pretty delusional. To craft a God and assume this God to possess any external authority.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Thus, have you tried this and failed? What have you tried to say it was not useful to you?
Member identification? No, that was successful, I just no longer needed membership. No longer need to show others I'm a member of the "group" so no longer need to pray to accomplish this.
Messianic Israelite
Active Member
Good evening Nakosis. In any healthy relationship, communication is two-way. Yahweh speaks to us through His Word and we speak to Him through prayer. The model prayer mentioned in Luke 11 says:
"Father,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation."
Hallowed be your name, indicates we should have a concern for His Name - Yahweh. We should want to see it revered, not substituted for G-d, L-rd or any other term. We should want the Kingdom to come to end this sinful age of man. We should want to ask Yahweh for our needs for the day and for forgiveness of sin. Finally, we should want to be able to overcome temptation. King David says that he moaned and complained in his prayers (Psalm 55:17). Prayer should feel natural. It's a humbling experience, but whether we speak few words or many, prayer can be very effective (Luke 18:13).
firedragon
Veteran Member
I thought you were talking about God's needs, not yours.
Word as in Bible or direct communication?
Some have said God only communicates through select messengers. Some claim God communicates directly to them.
What should/can be assumed about God's needs?
I don't assume I know anything about God, that why I'm asking other's views.
Messianic Israelite
Active Member
Yahweh speaks to us through the Word of the Bible. Yahshua said in Matthew 4:4 and Luke 4:4 that man shall not live by bread only, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh. We have His Word and that should be sufficient for us to walk the Kingdom way of life. The problem is, would Yahweh speak to individuals who refuse even to adhere to that? Yahweh also speaks through his messengers also, who preach the Word. But only those who are obedient to Him (Jeremiah 23:21-22). One person that Yahweh spoke to that we know of is Moses. But we all can't be Moses' and his job was very unique in delivering the Torah Law to the Israelites.
In the Bible it's clear that Yahweh speaks to His people in more than one way. Primarily it's through the Word, or through a Preacher preaching the Word, but a person who is living obediently and has the Holy Spirit may be communicated to through words (2 Cor 12:8-9), a dream or vision as well (Acts 2:17).
I forgot to address what you said about group prayer. Yes, Yahshua said to go in to one's private closet to pray, but the apostles prayed together many times and this proved very effective (Acts 4:31). I think we can agree that if you want to pray you should do so privately, but if you are with other believers, you may pray together in the same place. The problem is, praying in a place where you can be seen by others to make yourself look righteous.
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